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NHL 2018-19

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1 hour ago, VancouverFan69 said:

hip hop culture disease

 

Gee I wonder which group of people this is referring to and how you feel about them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, seasaltvanilla said:

 

Gee I wonder which group of people this is referring to and how you feel about them.

 

 

why does it have to be an indictment about how he feels about an entire group of people and not how he feels about a fairly recent pop culture movement?

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3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Dog whistle much?

it's a reach

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1 hour ago, O.C.D said:

it's a reach

 

Well saying, "It caused the BFBS disease in pro sports, mostly in hockey." is a valid complaint or at least a valid feeling towards a design trend. Calling it the "BFBS hip hop culture disease" does imply a level of dog whistling.

 

I'm not here to call the poster a racist or anything because I don't know them, but there was loaded language used.

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4 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

No it didn't, the Los Angeles Raiders did.

 

And there's no sense in sweating "hip hop culture" anymore. NBA players all look like this now:

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

 

Not the LA Raiders. The Raiders moved from Oakland to LA in '82. 

 

3 hours ago, seasaltvanilla said:

 

Gee I wonder which group of people this is referring to and how you feel about them.

 

 

 

Teenage/early adult youths.

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5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

The Kings' switch to black and silver from their classic purple/Forum blue and yellow-gold was one of the worst rebrands for two reasons(and not because the black & silver are bad):

So silver and black aren’t bad except that they are? Got it. 

 

5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

1. It cost the NHL its one and only purple team.

So? Why is it vital that the NHL have a purple team? I don’t hate purple, but I don’t see its absence as a particularly bad thing either. 

 

5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

2. It caused the BFBS hip hop culture disease in pro sports, mostly in hockey.

This is me putting on the Mod Hat. Racism, even in dog whistle form, isn’t going to be tolerated here. I hope I’m clear. 

 

Besides. I hate to break it to you, but the exposure the Kings’ black and silver identity got thanks to groups like the NWA helped put the team- and NHL- into the national consciousness of the United States. Never before- or since- have the Kings or the NHL been as cool in the States as they were after getting Gretzky and switching to black and silver. 

 

5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

Gretzky would have looked great in an updated purple & yellow uniform like he did in Oilers royal blue & orange. The Kings could have gone back to arm trimless jerseys with white being the light colour. Think of the marketing ability of colour with star players in the 90's:

 

Gretzky in Kings purple⚅

Yzerman in Red Wings red⚀

Lemieux in Penguins black⚫

Lindros in Flyers orange🔶

Messier in Rangers blue🔵

Gretzky never wore purple and so it’s a moot point. 

 

44 minutes ago, VancouverFan69 said:

Teenage/early adult youths.

Hate to break it to you, but the Gretzky trade was thirty-one years ago. Someone who was 19 when Gretzky began playing for the Kings is 50 now. 

 

My point is that pop culture and youth culture is not flat. It changes. It evolves. You’re ranting about “the kids these days” when the kids you’re angry at are now north of 45. 

 

2 hours ago, O.C.D said:

it's a reach

Again, Mod Hat going on. 

 

You have to be incredibly thick or obstinant to not see how calling “hip hop culture” a “disease” is potentially a very big problem. 

 

This forum is supposed to be a place where everyone feels welcome, regardless of race, religion, identity, whathaveyou. So as a mod? I’m going to make sure that’s understood when someone veers too close to the line of unacceptability. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 7:00 PM, Ice_Cap said:

No other Kings colourscheme’s been affiliated with mainstream pop culture like black and silver has been. 

 

5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

2. It caused the BFBS hip hop culture disease in pro sports, mostly in hockey.

 

Okay, wrong choice of words in the context used.

 

2 hours ago, O.C.D said:

why does it have to be an indictment about how he feels about an entire group of people and not how he feels about a fairly recent pop culture movement?

 

51 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

Well saying, "It caused the BFBS disease in pro sports, mostly in hockey." is a valid complaint or at least a valid feeling towards a design trend. Calling it the "BFBS hip hop culture disease" does imply a level of dog whistling.

 

I'm not here to call the poster a racist or anything because I don't know them, but there was loaded language used.

 

Before throwing unnecessary race cards at me, read the above comment by Ice_Cap. Absolutely NOTHING WRONG with hip hop culture in itself. No different than the disco culture of the late 70's. The problem is that the BFBS movement in hockey and in sports was that sports owners took colour away from their respective fans and wanted to cater their brands to non-hockey/sports fans who were into hip hop and gothic culture, mostly tèens and young adults. If one grew up in that society, one either had to wear and look the same or get outcasted. Race has NOTHING to do with it. It was the LA Raiders & Kings and the Chicago Bulls selling their respective black & silver and black & red brands. This pressured other sports owners, especially in hockey to "keep up with the Joneses". Before one knew it, colour was disappearing like no tomorrow.

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There is that group of teams that like to chase trends.

Most expansion teams in the 90s used black, teal or purple, or both , and a couple existing teams rebranded using either color.

Every culture has their bad aspects and good aspects. I personally grew up with the kings black & silver, so I liked those.

And black and purple was even cooler (and THAT too was chasing trends!).\

 

 

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On 1/10/2019 at 10:57 PM, mcj882000 said:


See, this is what I don't get - why does it matter? Past results don't guarantee future performance; and besides, you're making it sound like wearing purple is why they were forgettable, and obviously it's not - I'll remind you that they were pretty forgotten in the late-90s as well, after Bruce McNall went to prison, the team went bankrupt and had to trade Gretzky & co., all of which happened while they were still wearing the black & silver. They're looking pretty forgettable right now and going forward as well, I'll point out. 

Past results don’t guarantee future performance- exactly! Which is why I think there’s value in a team staying with an identity associated with success. You can never be sure that you’re going to win another championship, which makes the year (or years) you do win one matter. 

Say the Kings went full on purple next season and kept it. For, say, ten years. And they never win another Cup. 

 

Well that creates a disconnect between the highlights and memories of those championship runs and the team currently on the ice. It’s not a good thing if they look like a different team then the team that achieved the ultimate prize in the sport.

 

Factor in the pop culture relevancy the black and silver look had, between the media attention that came with signing Gretzky and Kings merch suddenly becoming popular with the hip-hop crowd? And I think there’s a lot of cache in the Kings’ black and silver look that just doesn’t exist with any of their identities that used purple. 

 

Now the Kings might stink up the Staples Centre for the next decade+ but even if they do? At least they’re rocking an identity that calls to mind the most relevant years in franchise history. If you’re going to be irrelevant? You might as well at least dress like a team that accomplished something. 

 

On 1/10/2019 at 10:57 PM, mcj882000 said:

The Kings are a team that's had some stupendous downturns with a pair of high points, both of which just happened to occur while they were basically copying the Raiders. That their Dork Ages have mostly been while purple was one of their team colours is coincidental.

Of course it’s coincidental. Had the Kings stuck with purple and gold when they got Gretzky? That look would have gained a degree of the mainstream cache the first black and silver look did. And then, assuming they still go with the 2000s look? That “Gretzky era purple and gold” identity probably comes back just in time for the Kings to win two Cups. 

The entire history of the Kings’ identity hinges on going ahead with the black and silver rebrand as Gretzky came in. 

 

I’m not denying it’s coincidental. I’m just saying that it’s the way it is. Arguing “if things were different they’d be different” doesn’t change the reality we’re all living with. 

 

As it stands? I think the Kings have far more to gain by embracing an identity associated with two Cups, the greatest player of all time, and pop culture relevance. I don’t deny black and silver is all of these things because of coincidence, but it is all of these things regardless. 

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58 minutes ago, VancouverFan69 said:

Before throwing unnecessary race cards at me, read the above comment by Ice_Cap. Absolutely NOTHING WRONG with hip hop culture in itself. No different than the disco culture of the late 70's. The problem is that the BFBS movement in hockey and in sports was that sports owners took colour away from their respective fans and wanted to cater their brands to non-hockey/sports fans who were into hip hop and gothic culture, mostly tèens and young adults. If one grew up in that society, one either had to wear and look the same or get outcasted. Race has NOTHING to do with it. It was the LA Raiders & Kings and the Chicago Bulls selling their respective black & silver and black & red brands. This pressured other sports owners, especially in hockey to "keep up with the Joneses". Before one knew it, colour was disappearing like no tomorrow.

 

I do agree there is a certain level of teams seeing which colours are cool and popular with the merchandise buying audience, but I also think saying "sports owners took colour away from their respective fans and wanted to cater their brands to non-hockey/sports fans who were into hip hop and gothic culture" is a bit of hyperbole. Two of the teams you listed in the Raiders and the Bulls have always been black anyways.

 

I also wanted to take a look into you saying sports, especially hockey, owners being pressured to make colour disappear during that time period.

 

  • The Kings change to black and silver for the 88-89 season.
  • The Sharks start as a teal and black team in 91-92
  • The North Stars change to black and green for the 91-92 season and would keep those jerseys to start in Dallas two seasons later
  • The Senators start as a black and red team in 92-93
  • The Lightning start as black and blue team in 92-93
  • The Devils change to red and black for the 92-93 season
  • The Flames add the black as an accent/equipment colour for the 94-95 season and don't have a black jersey until 98-99
  • The Capitals change to blue and black for the 95-96 season
  • The Sabres change to the black and red goat head for the 96-97 season
  • The Hurricanes start as a red and black team in 97-98
  • None of the turn of the century expansion teams (NSH, CBJ, MIN 2.0) use black

 

So there's five teams (LA, NJD, CGY, WSH, BUF) who introduced black to the branding where there hadn't been any before, with only LA and Buffalo using black as the primary colour during that time. 

 

There are also four teams who begin play during that time (SJS, OTT, TBL, CAR) that use black, with Ottawa and Tampa Bay using black as the primary colour. In Ottawa's case, red and black are the colours of the old Senators and are also Ottawa's sports colours, much like Pittsburgh with black and yellow.

 

Then there is one team (MIN 1.0) who upgraded black from an secondary colour to primary.

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Here's my perspective on teams that have two well-respected colour schemes in their own right. I do feel that both colour schemes can be embraced as part of the same brand - one as a primary home & away set and the other as a third or as throwbacks for several games per season. 

 

The Mariners regularly use their original royal blue and yellow-gold as a weekly throwback, using the current brand. Even during their dark ages, long-time fans loved those colours as they were based on the old Seattle Pilots.

 

Many, many Canucks fans yearn for a full-time return to the Pavel Bure-era black, yellow and red Skate uniforms. It's the same generation that grew up with the Gretzky-era black and silver. The Canucks did the right thing by going back to their original royal blue and Kelly green look. However, even if there's a future green alternate, the '94 black Skate uniform should be worn 2-4 times annually because it was the look when the club finally became a winner.

 

As for the Kings, I will admit defeat as black & silver has been LA's colours for 30 years, even with the purple in early Y2K. However, the Kings should use their original purple/Forum blue uniforms as a regular third. I just wish the current home plate logo gets ditched and the classic crown were on the front with a deeper shade of silver.

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21 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

I do agree there is a certain level of teams seeing which colours are cool and popular with the merchandise buying audience, but I also think saying "sports owners took colour away from their respective fans and wanted to cater their brands to non-hockey/sports fans who were into hip hop and gothic culture" is a bit of hyperbole. Two of the teams you listed in the Raiders and the Bulls have always been black anyways.

 

I also wanted to take a look into you saying sports, especially hockey, owners being pressured to make colour disappear during that time period.

 

  • The Kings change to black and silver for the 88-89 season.
  • The Sharks start as a teal and black team in 91-92
  • The North Stars change to black and green for the 91-92 season and would keep those jerseys to start in Dallas two seasons later
  • The Senators start as a black and red team in 92-93
  • The Lightning start as black and blue team in 92-93
  • The Devils change to red and black for the 92-93 season
  • The Flames add the black as an accent/equipment colour for the 94-95 season and don't have a black jersey until 98-99
  • The Capitals change to blue and black for the 95-96 season
  • The Sabres change to the black and red goat head for the 96-97 season
  • The Hurricanes start as a red and black team in 97-98
  • None of the turn of the century expansion teams (NSH, CBJ, MIN 2.0) use black

 

So there's five teams (LA, NJD, CGY, WSH, BUF) who introduced black to the branding where there hadn't been any before, with only LA and Buffalo using black as the primary colour during that time. 

 

There are also four teams who begin play during that time (SJS, OTT, TBL, CAR) that use black, with Ottawa and Tampa Bay using black as the primary colour. In Ottawa's case, red and black are the colours of the old Senators and are also Ottawa's sports colours, much like Pittsburgh with black and yellow.

 

Then there is one team (MIN 1.0) who upgraded black from an secondary colour to primary.

 

Teams that came out with black from the get-go as a primary or secondary got it right. The Senators and Lightning look great in black and need to return to that base. The black on the Sharks' original looked great with the lighter teal. It's teams ditching their long-time and distinctive colours just to "keep up with the Joneses" that were the problem. I never blamed the Raiders nor the Bulls in the first place. Their colours were always their looks.

 

The CFL has also been infested by the BFBS movement. The BC Lions had a classic look throughout the 80's with their burnt orange and white with brown trim. Though black was also their primary in the 60's and secondary in the 70's, copying the Raiders' black & silver in '90 was a big no-no. The Stampeders had a beautiful red & silver look. No team in football nor in sports owned that look. Since their introduction of black, their look has been a mess ever since. 

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19 minutes ago, VancouverFan69 said:

The CFL has also been infested by the BFBS movement. The BC Lions had a classic look throughout the 80's with their burnt orange and white with brown trim. Though black was also their primary in the 60's and secondary in the 70's, copying the Raiders' black & silver in '90 was a big no-no. The Stampeders had a beautiful red & silver look. No team in football nor in sports owned that look. Since their introduction of black, their look has been a mess ever since. 

 

I wouldn't say all of the Stamps looks with black have been a mess, I like the '90s Flutie/Garcia era jerseys.

Spoiler

crop_21151630808.png

 

The Lions have always been black, they've never worn brown.

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54 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

I do agree there is a certain level of teams seeing which colours are cool and popular with the merchandise buying audience, but I also think saying "sports owners took colour away from their respective fans and wanted to cater their brands to non-hockey/sports fans who were into hip hop and gothic culture" is a bit of hyperbole. Two of the teams you listed in the Raiders and the Bulls have always been black anyways.

 

I also wanted to take a look into you saying sports, especially hockey, owners being pressured to make colour disappear during that time period.

 

  • The Kings change to black and silver for the 88-89 season.
  • The Sharks start as a teal and black team in 91-92
  • The North Stars change to black and green for the 91-92 season and would keep those jerseys to start in Dallas two seasons later
  • The Senators start as a black and red team in 92-93
  • The Lightning start as black and blue team in 92-93
  • The Devils change to red and black for the 92-93 season
  • The Flames add the black as an accent/equipment colour for the 94-95 season and don't have a black jersey until 98-99
  • The Capitals change to blue and black for the 95-96 season
  • The Sabres change to the black and red goat head for the 96-97 season
  • The Hurricanes start as a red and black team in 97-98
  • None of the turn of the century expansion teams (NSH, CBJ, MIN 2.0) use black

 

So there's five teams (LA, NJD, CGY, WSH, BUF) who introduced black to the branding where there hadn't been any before, with only LA and Buffalo using black as the primary colour during that time. 

 

There are also four teams who begin play during that time (SJS, OTT, TBL, CAR) that use black, with Ottawa and Tampa Bay using black as the primary colour. In Ottawa's case, red and black are the colours of the old Senators and are also Ottawa's sports colours, much like Pittsburgh with black and yellow.

 

Then there is one team (MIN 1.0) who upgraded black from an secondary colour to primary.

 

You forgot to mention the Flyers in the late 90's when their black alternates became their primary darks.

 

6 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

I wouldn't say all of the Stamps looks with black have been a mess, I like the '90s Flutie/Garcia era jerseys.

 

The Lions have always been black, they've never worn brown.

 

The initial red & black look did look sharp. However, the black started to take over with the Labour Day jerseys and eventually the black away helmets and home black pants. The red & silver look were as much the Stamps as dark green and yellow-gold are the Eskimos.

 

The Lions had brown as trimming on their '78-'89 set. It was dark brown on the uniforms but lighter in shade on merchandise.

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@VancouverFan69, I apologize for misreading your post. I just find that I’m sensitive to dog whistling, and I read meaning into a statement that had no ill will behind it. 

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I wish I were sensitive to dog whistling. Years of headphone use have probably made me half-deaf.

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@SFGiants58, thank you. It's all good. I worded it wrong but when Ice-Cap mentioned "mainstream pop culture" in relation to the Kings' black & silver, that's what I was getting at. 

 

Thanks again.

 

Cheers and peace.

 

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17 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

So silver and black aren’t bad except that they are? Got it. 

 

So? Why is it vital that the NHL have a purple team? I don’t hate purple, but I don’t see its absence as a particularly bad thing either. 

  

This is me putting on the Mod Hat. Racism, even in dog whistle form, isn’t going to be tolerated here. I hope I’m clear. 

 

Besides. I hate to break it to you, but the exposure the Kings’ black and silver identity got thanks to groups like the NWA helped put the team- and NHL- into the national consciousness of the United States. Never before- or since- have the Kings or the NHL been as cool in the States as they were after getting Gretzky and switching to black and silver. 

 

Gretzky never wore purple and so it’s a moot point. 

 

Hate to break it to you, but the Gretzky trade was thirty-one years ago. Someone who was 19 when Gretzky began playing for the Kings is 50 now. 

 

My point is that pop culture and youth culture is not flat. It changes. It evolves. You’re ranting about “the kids these days” when the kids you’re angry at are now north of 45. 

 

Again, Mod Hat going on. 

 

You have to be incredibly thick or obstinant to not see how calling “hip hop culture” a “disease” is potentially a very big problem. 

 

This forum is supposed to be a place where everyone feels welcome, regardless of race, religion, identity, whathaveyou. So as a mod? I’m going to make sure that’s understood when someone veers too close to the line of unacceptability. 

Like MC Ren said on Straight outta LA; "We can't wear that flowery purple and gold." LOL  But you are right LA Kings in silver and black put them and the league on the map in the USA.  I would even argue that thanks to the kings rebrand, trading for gretzky that we now have the SJ Sharks, Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers and Arizona Coyotes in the league. 

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5 hours ago, Dodgeryaqui8016 said:

Like MC Ren said on Straight outta LA; "We can't wear that flowery purple and gold." LOL  But you are right LA Kings in silver and black put them and the league on the map in the USA.  I would even argue that thanks to the kings rebrand, trading for gretzky that we now have the SJ Sharks, Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Tampa Bay Lightning, Florida Panthers and Arizona Coyotes in the league. 

 

It probably had A LOT to do with it. 

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