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The XFL may be making a comeback

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2 hours ago, GDAWG said:

With rumors that Vince is known to fly off the handle and get into fits of rages, I wonder how he's going to react to New York playing in a near empty Met Life Stadium?  Or Tampa playing in a near empty Raymond James?  Or Seattle in a near empty CenturyLink?  ,

1

 

Last time around he reacted by cutting a wrestling promo on Bob Costs, then shut the league down. The interview is more entertaining than anything the XFL ever did on the field for those who haven't seen it.

 

My hope this time around is it we get another Jim Everett/Jim Rome situation with either Skip Bayless or Stephen A. Smith playing the part of Jim Rome.

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Looks like the Pep Hamilton hiring as the Washington HC/GM will be announced Thursday.

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5 hours ago, GDAWG said:

So will the XFL have shaky cam during games?

Did Kevin Dunn have anything to do with XFL 1.0? I'd be fine with getting him off WWE productions to see how many camera cuts he could make in a single play.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

In all seriousness? It seems like Vince saw the NFL at the height of the kneeling drama and “low” ratings (which were still very high in relation to their closest competiton) and thought “the time to strike is now!”

 

Of course the kneeling thing was a non-issue last season and look at that...ratings rebounded. 

 

I agree and if that's the case I think it's hilarious. He thought he saw an opportunity to get in while the country was mad at the NFL. In actual reality the percentage of people who were angry at the NFL to the point of boycott is far far smaller than their news outlet would have you believe. The percentage of that percentage who would tune into/buy tickets for an alternate football league just to stick it to the NFL for something that isn't even happening anymore is not large. Vince is going to sink millions of dollars because of this misreading.. I wonder if he got a suggestion from his buddy in the white house. 

 

In total if that's the reason he's trying to restart the XFL he's going to turn off way more people than he wins, including people like me who were kids and actually into the XFL on the first go-around. 

 

The real reason NFL ratings were down at the time of the XFL revival announcement was because the NFL was putting out a bad product and 90% of the games were unwatchable. What made those games unwatchable would also be true of XFL games. 

 

Quote

 

So it seems like Vince’s efforts to “give football back to red blooded ‘Muricans!” is going to ring a bit hollow in a year. 

 

The funny thing is the original XFL was an attempt to give football back to red blooded muricans. They advertised that there was no halo rule on punts, the players were working class saps like us, and made the game seem more dangerous because even back then some people felt like it was getting too soft. It didn't work because people turned off by the NFL either don't watch football altogether or they watch the massive minor league already in place (NCAA). He learned nothing. 

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - sports in their purest form are b. o. r. i. n. g.

 

If you're all about "the game" and just want to see pure competition, then go watch a high school game or a D2 college game.  If there was no ESPN and local sports radio creating storylines and promoting games just like McMahon promotes wrestling cards, the leagues would be making a lot less money than they are.  The games would be "just a game" - not an "event."

 

I'm all for contrived stories, build ups, and gimmicks. If some team's LB banged the opposing team's QB's girlfriend?  I want to know about it, and I want that LB wearing a towel that has the girlfriend's face on it and waving it in the QB's face while standing over him and gyrating his hips after he sacks him.

 

I want taunting.  I want dancing.  I want... entertainment.  I don't want any unnecessary risks taken, meaning I'm not advocating for any on-field rules that make it less safe than it already is - but everything around the game should be fun. 

 

If I'm going to take time out of my day to watch a b or c level football game, there had better be something besides the action to keep me interested in it.  I think McMahon gets that - but if he's taking a different approach this time, then I have my doubts.

 

 

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4 hours ago, McCarthy said:

In total if that's the reason he's trying to restart the XFL he's going to turn off way more people than he wins, including people like me who were kids and actually into the XFL on the first go-around

Exactly. I was 13 when the first XFL launched and I admit I ate it up. I even had a San Francisco Demons jesey. 

 

The only reason the XFL has any cultural currency is because of how absurd some of the aspects were. Team names, the black balls with the giant red X on them, the coin toss scramble, stupid name plates. It was all so dumb but also amazing for the time, and that kitch is the only reason anyone gives a crap about the XFL eighteen years later. 

 

So if Vince is just gonna resurrect the XFL name to have a straight laced “everyone stands for the anthem and loves America” football league? What the hell is even the point? That’s not why people (ironically) like the XFL. 

 

Give me stupid team names and guys with “Big Daddy” on their nameplates or don’t even bother. 

 

4 hours ago, McCarthy said:

It didn't work because people turned off by the NFL either don't watch football altogether or they watch the massive minor league already in place (NCAA). He learned nothing. 

I don’t want to go off on a tangent about pro wrestling, so I’ll just say that as a fan? Vince not leaning his lesson is SOP. 

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22 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The only reason the XFL has any cultural currency is because of how absurd some of the aspects were. Team names, the black balls with the giant red X on them, the coin toss scramble, stupid name plates. It was all so dumb but also amazing for the time, and that kitch is the only reason anyone gives a crap about the XFL eighteen years later. 

 

So if Vince is just gonna resurrect the XFL name to have a straight laced “everyone stands for the anthem and loves America” football league? What the hell is even the point? That’s not why people (ironically) like the XFL. 

 

Give me stupid team names and guys with “Big Daddy” on their nameplates or don’t even bother. 

 

So if they can't offer good football (and they won't), they should at least offer ridiculous over-the-top football. Trying to take out personality rather than try to encourage it isn't the way to go. 

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On 2/20/2019 at 3:01 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again - sports in their purest form are b. o. r. i. n. g.

 

If you're all about "the game" and just want to see pure competition, then go watch a high school game or a D2 college game.  If there was no ESPN and local sports radio creating storylines and promoting games just like McMahon promotes wrestling cards, the leagues would be making a lot less money than they are.  The games would be "just a game" - not an "event."

 

I'm all for contrived stories, build ups, and gimmicks. If some team's LB banged the opposing team's QB's girlfriend?  I want to know about it, and I want that LB wearing a towel that has the girlfriend's face on it and waving it in the QB's face while standing over him and gyrating his hips after he sacks him.

 

I want taunting.  I want dancing.  I want... entertainment.  I don't want any unnecessary risks taken, meaning I'm not advocating for any on-field rules that make it less safe than it already is - but everything around the game should be fun. 

 

If I'm going to take time out of my day to watch a b or c level football game, there had better be something besides the action to keep me interested in it.  I think McMahon gets that - but if he's taking a different approach this time, then I have my doubts.

 

 

 

You have a good point ... but you oversold it a tad.

We don't need taunting; and we definitely don't need details about players' dating practices!  What is nice to have, however, is storylines. The thing that I really liked when I started following Arena Football was the fact that the players played both ways.  So a wide receiver who is covered by a defensive back had the chance to cover that same player; and running back / linebackers spent the game tackling each other.  Those storylines made most games interesting.  Unfortunately, the league eventually dropped iron man football; and with that decision plenty of built-in drama went out of the games.

Each league has its own set of storylines.  In the AAF, the opening-week performance of Birmingham quarterback Luis Perez, who had had a great Division II college career after having played very little football in high school, was compelling, as was the play of that team's ex-Alabama running back Trent Richardson.  Even failure is interesting, if there's a story to it: the bungling and bumbling of Memphis quarterback Christian Hackenberg, a second-round NFL pick, had a "can't look away" disaster quality.

 

At San Antonio, coach Mike Riley might be tempted to use two quarterbacks.  Even if Logan Woodside is the main starter, he might want to keep Marquise Williams sharp.

Just give us the stories.

In the orignial XFL, my favourite player was Hitmen wide receiver Anthony DiCosmo.  He was a New Jersey native, a black guy who had been adopted as a baby by a loving Italian mother whom he adored and who still doted on him.  

The Dragons in the Arena League had a very interesting wide receiver / defensive back in Richmond Flowers III.  He was the son of an ex-Giant, and, even more significantly, the grandson of a brave anti-segregationist Alabama attorney general.  And he played guitar and sang in the clubhouse.

This is the kind of stuff that makes a team and a league come alive, and makes a fan want to watch.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

*snipped for space*

 

All sports leagues run with “narritives.” 

The first XFL’s problem was that it tried to go all out on them. To the point that they tried to manufacture a feud between a colour commentator and a coach. It just came off as silly. 

 

So you have to be smart in how you do that sort of thing in a legitimate athletic setting. You can manufacture drama anywhere you want in pro wrestling because it’s all manufactured. 

Pro sports though? If there isn’t anything there you can’t create it. When leagues and/or networks try? It doesn’t work. 

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9 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

You have a good point ... but you oversold it tad.

We don't need taunting; and we definitely don't need details about players' dating practices!  What is nice to have, however, is storylines. The thing that I really liked when I started following Arena Football was the fact that the players played both ways.  So a wide receiver who is covered by a defensive back had the chance to cover that same player; and a running back / linebackers spent the game tackling each other.  Those storylines made most games interesting.  Unfortunately, the league eventually dropped iron man football; and with that decision plenty of built-in drama went out of the games.

Each league has its own set of storylines.  In the AAF, the opening-week performance of Birmingham quarterback Luis Perez, who had had a great Division II college career after having played very little football in high school, was compelling, as was the play of that team's ex-Alabama running back Trent Richardson.  Even failure is interesting, if there's a story to it: the bungling and bumbling of Memphis quarterback Christian Hackenberg, a second-round NFL pick, had a "can't look away" disaster quality.

 

At San Antonio, coach Mike Riley might be tempted to use two quarterbacks.  Even if Logan Woodside is the main starter, he might want to keep Marquise Williams sharp.

Just give us the stories.

In the orignial XFL, my favourite player was Hitmen wide receiver Anthony DiCosmo.  He was a New Jersey native, a black guy who had been adopted as a baby by a loving Italian mother whom he adored and who still doted on him.  

The Dragons in the Arena League had a very interesting wide receiver / defensive back in Richmond Flowers III.  He was the son of an ex-Giant, and, even more significantly, the grandson of a brave anti-segregationist Alabama attorney general.  And he played guitar and sang in the clubhouse.

This is the kind of stuff that makes a team and a league come alive, and makes a fan want to watch.

 

If I ran a minor-league NBA, I'd pay Delonte West a million-dollar bonus to get Lebron's mom tattooed on his left arm, and then Lebron tatted on his right, with a caption of "son".  Hell - 10 million dollars.  That puts butts in seats.

 

Maybe we don't need gyrating hips, but... maybe?

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While VKM is capable of tarnishing a good idea, he is about 50/50 when it comes to listening to his audience and giving them what they want. 

 

What the average, wife-beating, no-necked NFL white dope wants:

  • NO NAGGERS KNEELIN' FER THE ANTHEM
  • NO SISSY-FIED QWER PENALTIES
  • NO INSTANT REPLAY GAD DUMMIT
  • CHEERLEEADERS AND TITTIES AGAN
  • NO WOMEN COVERIN THE GAME; THEY SHD GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN GET TRIGGERED LIBS
  • NO BROADCASTERS HOMOLIBTARDIN UP WITH SMARTASS COMMENTARY I WANT NO HILARY POLITICS BUILD THE WALL

None of these things has anything to do with the quality of play, quality of talent, or ability of the production team to tell a sports narrative.  Vince will no doubt play it mostly straight with the XFL initially, simply sans a lot of the political correctness of society and fewer/no rules or restrictions on physicality and/or anything that could needlessly slow down the games.

 

Much like the XFL before, however, these guys are going to get crippled as hell, the talent pool will be dreadful, and there's only so far that the gimmicks like jerseys and boobs will get you.

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10 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

All sports leagues run with “narritives.” 

The first XFL’s problem was that it tried to go all out on them. To the point that they tried to manufacture a feud between a colour commentator and a coach. It just came off as silly. 

 

So you have to be smart in how you do that sort of thing in a legitimate athletic setting. You can manufacture drama anywhere you want in pro wrestling because it’s all manufactured. 

Pro sports though? If there isn’t anything there you can’t create it. When leagues and/or networks try? It doesn’t work. 

 

I kinda disagree.  To make an intentionally-extreme example, you can have guys "hate" each other due to some deep seeded childhood incident, and play it up all through the week - or even season.  Have re-enactments, have interviews /promos about it, and then when they square off, it gives the announcers something to run with.

 

The action in between the lines is all real, but you can manufacture hype where it doesn't exist... as long as you don't go too far and try to claim that New York's safety Jon Jones accidentally set fire to the house where he and his half-brother (Boston's QB Dirk Jones) lived, killing their mother and the QB's father.  While Dirk was fostered by rich parents in the suburbs and had all the best opportunities to develop as a QB, Jon was raised by his father (a mortician) and ran away at the age of 16 to pursue his dream of playing pro football, and someday getting revenge on his brother that seemingly had everything handed to him on a platter (money, women, talent, opportunity) while he grew up breathing embalming fluid.  Oh, and did I mention he killed his brother's parents?

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Gambling. With out it a lot and I mean a lot people wouldn't give two $hits about sports. 

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47 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

I kinda disagree.  To make an intentionally-extreme example, you can have guys "hate" each other due to some deep seeded childhood incident, and play it up all through the week - or even season.  Have re-enactments, have interviews /promos about it, and then when they square off, it gives the announcers something to run with.

 

The action in between the lines is all real, but you can manufacture hype where it doesn't exist... as long as you don't go too far and try to claim that New York's safety Jon Jones accidentally set fire to the house where he and his half-brother (Boston's QB Dirk Jones) lived, killing their mother and the QB's father.  While Dirk was fostered by rich parents in the suburbs and had all the best opportunities to develop as a QB, Jon was raised by his father (a mortician) and ran away at the age of 16 to pursue his dream of playing pro football, and someday getting revenge on his brother that seemingly had everything handed to him on a platter (money, women, talent, opportunity) while he grew up breathing embalming fluid.  Oh, and did I mention he killed his brother's parents?

 

What if the XFL really leaned into it and decided to be for football what WWE is to wrestling? With players miced up for the whole stadium to hear, staged outcomes, ridiculous stunt tackles and so on and so forth. Do you think that kind of silliness would stand more or less of a chance of succeeding than just playing normal football games? 

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22 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

What if the XFL really leaned into it and decided to be for football what WWE is to wrestling? With players miced up for the whole stadium to hear, staged outcomes, ridiculous stunt tackles and so on and so forth. Do you think that kind of silliness would stand more or less of a chance of succeeding than just playing normal football games? 

The Harlem Globetrotters are still a thing after 90 years so I'd say that mixing football with elements of wrestling (maybe a ball-carrier can use the ropes on the sidelines to stay in-bounds or help propel him to a first down) has a better shot succeeding than the graveyard of challengers to the NFL. 

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3 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I kinda disagree.  To make an intentionally-extreme example, you can have guys "hate" each other due to some deep seeded childhood incident, and play it up all through the week - or even season.  Have re-enactments, have interviews /promos about it, and then when they square off, it gives the announcers something to run with.

 

The difference is that McMahon creates those deep seeded childhood incidents where they didn’t actually happen. 

 

Creating “storylines” by trying to spin real events or recognize real connections?  That’s life.  But creating storylines by scripting those  events or conflicts from scratch?  That’s over the line in a real sports league. 

 

I don’t trust McMahon to know or respect the difference. That’s why I’m skeptical of his ability to run a legitimate sports organization. 

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2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

 

What if the XFL really leaned into it and decided to be for football what WWE is to wrestling? With players miced up for the whole stadium to hear, staged outcomes, ridiculous stunt tackles and so on and so forth. Do you think that kind of silliness would stand more or less of a chance of succeeding than just playing normal football games? 

 

No.  It works for Harlem Globetrotters because it's only 5 on 5, much smaller stage, and it's a non-contact game where the ball bounces exactly how you want it to.  

 

With staged basketball, every play can be exciting.  With football, there's way too many players to get on the same page, there would have to be hitting, and too many things can go wrong. 

 

I think staged football would fail miserably (though it would definitely be entertaining to watch a game that featured run-ins, distracted referees, and steel chairs.)

 

Look at heavyweight boxing back in the 80s/90s with Don King.  You'd always have those press conferences where they'd brawl ahead of time, he's always hype it up, and every fight was a big deal.  I'm just saying to do the same for these games.  Have a "media day" every week, and have the players up close and talk trash on each other.  Just make it exciting.  The level of play isn't going to be enough to make me watch, so give me another reason.

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10 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

No.  It works for Harlem Globetrotters because it's only 5 on 5, much smaller stage, and it's a non-contact game where the ball bounces exactly how you want it to.  

If fake football were to work, the arena leagues would be the place to make it happen. Fewer players, smaller field, and really, who would care if that level of football were to be scripted? I’m sure someone, but there’s always someone.  

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The only way you can make scripted football is with the officials, and executed in WWE ways.

 

team A throws Hail Mary touchdown pass as time expires - team A wins!

 

wait - official Bob Smith just threw a penalty flag, and the play must be re-done - it doesn't make sense; it was a phantom call!

 

team A snaps the ball and the pass is batted down, team B wins!

 

official Bob Smith is - my god, no!  he's removed his XFL referee uniform to reveal a team B shirt!  what a traitor! 

 

etc

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