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XFL 2020 Season


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I am curious to know if the XFL players are employees of the team they are playing for or if they are considered "independent contractors."  Considering that Vince McMahon owns the league, it's probably the latter since none of his WWE superstars are employees but independent contractors.  And if it lasts longer than a year, don't expect a union to come out of the XFL either.  Vince seems to be anti union and the story was that he told Hulk Hogan to shut down any plans Jesse Ventura may have had for a union. 

 

As for NFL contracts, I would not be at all surprised if that is a topic for the NFLPA to bring up during the current CBA talks.  I don't know how far it will go, but I will be surprised if it's not brought up. 

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12 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

I'm kind of tired of hearing how evil the NFL is when it comes to contracts.  The players agree to this system, and they could very easily refuse it, and force a different system that guarantees them the same split of revenue, but with more guarantees.

 

Lane Johnson just signed a new extension today (even though he was extended just this offseason) which freed up cap money for other players, but increased his guarantees to a ridiculous amount that he'd never see if NFL contracts were like MLB.

 

As a fan, I've never criticized a player for holding out and taking advantage of his leverage.  It basically killed my own team (the '05 Eagles) but I supported TO the whole way, as I do any player.

 

The current CBA was signed in 2011, so what did a player who was in eighth grade at the time "agree" to exactly? 

 

What about MLB contracts makes it unlikely Lane Johnson would get as much guaranteed money? There are guaranteed contracts worth 10s of millions handed out every year in the other leagues.

 

I would pretty much always support an NFL player holding out; it's one of the only tools they have at their disposal.

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14 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

You're talking about one extremely-unique situation.  I'd hardly say that qualifies as an argument against the validity of contracts.

 

It’s not the details of this situation that’s important, it’s that everybody seems to agree that the Patriots can violate the contract at will without any penalty at all.

 

Which is why NFL contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

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2 hours ago, Cosmic said:

The current CBA was signed in 2011, so what did a player who was in eighth grade at the time "agree" to exactly? 

 

What about MLB contracts makes it unlikely Lane Johnson would get as much guaranteed money? There are guaranteed contracts worth 10s of millions handed out every year in the other leagues.

 

I would pretty much always support an NFL player holding out; it's one of the only tools they have at their disposal.

 

That's just how every union contract works.  They'll get their say when it's up for negotiations again, which is... this year?  Next?  Well there's plenty of 20-year-olds that are unhappy with the current political situation... but they didn't have a say in it, but will in the next one. 

 

As for Lane Johnson's guaranteed money, nobody is going to sign a veteran OL to the length of contract it would take to balance out all that money.  How many teams in other sports are crippled because they give out 8-year/$200M contracts to guys that can't play after 3 years, and they're stuck paying the rest, which impairs their ability to compete?  

 

This guarantees that the player gets his, and the team maintains flexibility.  The 'contract' is basically the guarantee divided by the number of years before the team can cut the guy without severe ramifications.  So throw out the overall numbers that are reported - I guarantee agents aren't telling their clients that it's "real" money - it's just padding, so the agent can brag about how he got someone a $500M contract, even though it's realy a 100M one.

 

NFL contracts are guaranteed - it's just that it's literally the "guarantee" part that's guaranteed, and lesser players don't get all that.  They should voice those concerns to the union heads... who admittedly, would likely ignore them because 'lesser' players don't move the needle in terms of revenue, so the union is looking to take care of those that do.

 

Also, how many 'filler' players (guys that teams have just because they have to have a 5th receiver or 4th TE) are getting paid more now than they would without a cap system?  My uneducated assumption is that the stars would benefit the most from an uncapped system, and it'd be worse for the tail-end of the rosters.  And there may be less money overall to throw around, because revenue wouldn't be shared in the same way it is now, so while some teams could have absurd payrolls you'd end up with teams that are kinda like the Pittsburgh Pirates, who just have jabronis making peanuts.  It wouldn't be that bad just because of the TV split (which I assume would continue the same way), but there would be a big disparity.  The current system is the only way that the Jaguars can compete for talent at nearly the same level as the Patriots, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys.

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

It’s not the details of this situation that’s important, it’s that everybody seems to agree that the Patriots can violate the contract at will without any penalty at all.

 

Well they might be penalized and have to pay him anyway (and maybe even more), but I guess that's not decided yet.  It's still an unprecedented situation and we don't know the outcome, and the precedent it will set.  Either way, if he knowingly lied about being investigated and having legal issues that could jeopardize his ability to fulfill his contract, then I think that they do (and should) have a case.  If they do pay him, then that's even more of an argument that the CBA benefits the players, because no decent human being would think that guys like him, Tyreke Hill, and other domestic abusers should get the sum of their guarantees when they can't live up to the terms of the contract on their end, because of decisions / behavior that they choose.

 

Back in the steroid era of baseball, teams were signing guys to megamillion$ contracts based on performance that was only possible because the players were juiced and withholding that info.  All of a sudden, they're off the juice, and their true ability (or lack thereof) is exposed.  My opinion was that the player falsely represented himself and duped the team into the crippling contract, and the team should have an out.  Frankly, I'm not sure there's a rational argument against that - but it didn't happen, because the CBA protected the players.

 

Again - the players can negotiate a different system, but it likely wouldn't be in their best interest.  The best they could do is maybe a higher revenue split.

 

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Well they might be penalized and have to pay him anyway (and maybe even more), but I guess that's not decided yet. 

 

No, the article makes it seem pretty clear that they won’t have to pay a penalty (or even interest) if found to have voided his signing bonus without cause.  The Patriots literally have nothing to lose by arbitrarily deciding not to pay him what they owe him, because NFL contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.  

 

And since fans seem to regard the players as disposable commodities every bit as much as the owners do, I don’t see that changing.  Maybe ever. 

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There is apparently going to be a third XFL draft in January targeting guys currently on NFL Practice Squads and CFL Free agents.  The XFL is likely hoping with this third draft, they can get players to sign with them over a futures contract with the NFL or even re-signing with the CFL. 

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 NFL contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.  

 

You keep making this point... but haven't provided evidence to support it.  If the Patriots are violating the contract, I would expect that the grievance will turn out in Brown's favor, and if not, the courts will decide - he's not leaving $9M on the table without exercising every option to get it.  In either case, the contract will be honored - either by the Patriots paying him, or by courts deciding that he did do something to void it.

 

What is the timeline for the hearing of the grievance?

 

The PA may not be as strong as the MLBPA, but they're certainly not going to allow for contracts to simply not be honored - not without a major fight.  These are too high-profile to be swept under the rug, so I'd like to see an example of a contract being broken without any action being taken.

 

As for "disposable commodities", of course they are.  It's sports.  I don't want some 3rd-string schmuck to have a lifetime contract with my team, though I do hate that the rules force teams have to let popular-productive players go from time-to-time.  I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing here - in your opinion, what's the ideal situation that provides the best solution for the players, teams, and fans?  I'm not saying that there may not be better systems than what's in place now, but I hardly think that it's as rigged for the owners as it's made to seem.  I'm not feeling too bad for an undrafted rookie FA that's making the minimum of $500K right after graduating college, with the potential to earn much more if he's good.  And if he's not... then they should "dispose" of him.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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12 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

what's the ideal situation that provides the best solution for the players, teams, and fans?

 

The solution is for an NFL team to be required to pay a released player what it has agreed in his contract to pay him, just as teams in other leagues must do.

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7 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

The solution is for an NFL team to be required to pay a released player what it has agreed in his contract to pay him, just as teams in other leagues must do.

 

BUT THE TEAM HAS NOT AGREED IN HIS CONTRACT TO PAY HIM. That's literally why there's "guaranteed" and "non-guaranteed" money.  I'm really not sure why this is so hard to understand. 

 

They NFLPA could make that happen, but then the players would need to give up those huge signing bonuses, which in effect guarantee that the player will remain on the team for x years, even if he turns to trash, which in the sport of football, happens fast.

 

Fully-guaranteed contracts could happen if the NFLPA fought hard enough for it, but other than for top QBs, you'd probably only see 2 or 3 year deals for a lot of guys, without huge signing bonuses, and there would need to be a lot of adjustments to the cap rules (which is fine by me, because contracts today are written in ways just to circumvent or stretch the cap as much as possible... leading to a lot of the confusion that fans have.)

 

The Eagles used to give this total jabroni Reno Mahe big contracts every year, then release him and bring him back on another big contract, just as a way of moving cap money forward into the next year (not sure how it worked, but Mahe and his agent both knew that he wasn't going to see that money in his contract.  I think most NFL players know the 'deal' when they sign their 'deal'.  If anything the NFL is the one league where players actually have incentive to work hard.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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20 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

BUT THE TEAM HAS NOT AGREED IN HIS CONTRACT TO PAY HIM. That's literally why there's "guaranteed" and "non-guaranteed" money. 

 

Except as we’ve seen, even “guaranteed” money isn’t actually guaranteed, if the club can arbitrarily decide not to pay it without either cause or penalty. 

 

Which is why (say it with me) NFL contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.  😁

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7 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Except as we’ve seen, even “guaranteed” money isn’t actually guaranteed, if the club can arbitrarily decide not to pay it without either cause or penalty. 

 

Which is why (say it with me) NFL contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.  😁

 

In one unprecedented case, that hasn't even been finalized yet.  If your entire argument hangs on that one case, then cool.  We'll pick this up again once the courts have their say. 

 

Until then, let's just gaze at an image of Johnny U's contract.

 

unitas-contract-960.jpg?itok=cao9Ok8X&w=

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20 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

In one unprecedented case, that hasn't even been finalized yet.  If your entire argument hangs on that one case, then cool.  We'll pick this up again once the courts have their say.

 

The contract itself seems to carry no penalty for their failure to pay amounts owed.  That's not a great start.

 

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Until then, let's just gaze at an image of Johnny U's contract.

 

unitas-contract-960.jpg?itok=cao9Ok8X&w=

 

Damn it!  I couldn't figure out what that logo in the upper-right corner was.  😛 

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It's not part of the contract, but a logo that was applied.  From some Google searching, it seems to be from this SI series:

 

280x319_nfl95_postcard_v2.jpg

 

https://www.si.com/2014/06/11/paul-brown-cleveland-browns-dynasty-helmet-radio

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Tomorrow we will either laugh really hard at how ugly the XFL uniforms are or praise them for creating good uniforms.  I am curious as to who will make those uniforms.  I will be surprised if it's Nike, but who knows.  Based on their moves such as their TV deal and the cities they have chosen for their teams, they might be able to get Nike unless Nike's deal with the NFL is exclusive.  That would leave Reebok, Adidas, New Era (who does the CFL uniforms) and Under Armour.

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There's a bunch of brands that could be in the mix for that contract - though as I speculated before, it may be the XFL paying them, rather than how it works in the NFL.  

 

We saw the Starter brand dusted off for the AAF, and Champion has been making a comback lately with streetwear/shoes, so maybe they want to get their mark back on a sports jersey.  Or maybe their C9 brand that they sell at Target.  There's lots of possibilities, but I'd be more than shocked if it wasn't a league-wide deal, since the teams are centrally owned.

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6 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

There's a bunch of brands that could be in the mix for that contract - though as I speculated before, it may be the XFL paying them, rather than how it works in the NFL.  

 

We saw the Starter brand dusted off for the AAF, and Champion has been making a comback lately with streetwear/shoes, so maybe they want to get their mark back on a sports jersey.  Or maybe their C9 brand that they sell at Target.  There's lots of possibilities, but I'd be more than shocked if it wasn't a league-wide deal, since the teams are centrally owned.

 

I feel like XFL might even be a step down for Champion at this point. Amazingly (to me at least), Champion is very much a hot brand right now, and far more because of its streetwear collection than its old pro sports affiliations. I could see Champion picking up something like MLS or a European soccer league or NHL or something. But XFL? That would sully their brand; Starter seems like a much better fit.

 

Perhaps it's because XFL is going it alone that we haven't seen a leak yet.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

 

I feel like XFL might even be a step down for Champion at this point. Amazingly (to me at least), Champion is very much a hot brand right now, and far more because of its streetwear collection than its old pro sports affiliations. I could see Champion picking up something like MLS or a European soccer league or NHL or something. But XFL? That would sully their brand; Starter seems like a much better fit.

 

Perhaps it's because XFL is going it alone that we haven't seen a leak yet.

 

Watch it be Tap Out

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2 hours ago, DG_Now said:

 

I feel like XFL might even be a step down for Champion at this point. Amazingly (to me at least), Champion is very much a hot brand right now, and far more because of its streetwear collection than its old pro sports affiliations. I could see Champion picking up something like MLS or a European soccer league or NHL or something. But XFL? That would sully their brand; Starter seems like a much better fit.

 

Perhaps it's because XFL is going it alone that we haven't seen a leak yet.

 

If it's not any of the major ones like Reebok, Nike or Under Armour, or even Starter, I get the feeling that it could be a brand like Puma

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