XFL 2020 Season

[Red Wolf]

1 hour ago, Jer15 said:

I realize this is far from the point but missed opportunity.

Use Orton's theme. 

 

 

 

Sports teams are terrible about music. And by sports teams I specifically mean Arkansas State. They've been the Red Wolves for a decade now and wear red and black, and I've never once heard the nWo Wolfpac theme at a game. Absolutely embarrassing. They played the Big Show's theme during warmups once for no apparent reason though.

 

Also, with the new locker room, the team entrance starts by showing the head coach walking through the locker room and they don't play Goldberg's music! They play X Gon' Give it to You which is pretty good too I guess, but still.

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, Jer15 said:

I realize this is far from the point but missed opportunity.

Use Orton's theme. 

 

 

 

Probably why they lost the game, because the Tampa Bay Vipers opted not to use the voices in their head.  

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

I am dreading the attendance at this coming Saturday's Guardians game at the Meadowlands.  I bet it will be only a few thousand — which will look pretty much like zero.  The sight of that empty stadium will surely pierce the high that I will be on from having just seen the Impractical Jokers movie.

[GDAWG]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I am dreading the attendance at this coming Saturday's Guardians game at the Meadowlands.  I bet it will be only a few thousand — which will look pretty much like zero.  The sight of that empty stadium will surely pierce the high that I will be on from having just seen the Impractical Jokers movie.

 

the XFL made the mistake of having the New York team play at Met Life Stadium, which seats 82,000.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

3 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

6 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I am dreading the attendance at this coming Saturday's Guardians game at the Meadowlands.  I bet it will be only a few thousand — which will look pretty much like zero.  The sight of that empty stadium will surely pierce the high that I will be on from having just seen the Impractical Jokers movie.

 

the XFL made the mistake of having the New York team play at Met Life Stadium, which seats 82,000.

 

Indeed.  A big mistake.

Ideally the XFL should have been able to rent out Red Bull Stadium. But if Red Bull wouldn't do that rental (despite doing rentals for lacrosse and rugby), then some arrangement with a college must have been possible, and at a cost that is a fraction of what it costs to rent the Meadowlands stadium.  I know that the league wants to appear big-time; but playing in a cavernous empty stadium achieves just the opposite.

[Red Comet]

Would Columbia's stadium work?

[MJWalker45]

2 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Indeed.  A big mistake.

Ideally the XFL should have been able to rent out Red Bull Stadium. But if Red Bull wouldn't do that rental (despite doing rentals for lacrosse and rugby), then some arrangement with a college must have been possible, and at a cost that is a fraction of what it costs to rent the Meadowlands stadium.  I know that the league wants to appear big-time; but playing in a cavernous empty stadium achieves just the opposite.

That's the problem with playing in New York. the biggest college stadiums in the city may not have enough seats. then you look rinky dink because you'r playing in 5,000-10,000 seat stadiums. 

[GDAWG]

10 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

Would Columbia's stadium work?

 

Seats 17,000.  Plus there is a track inside the stadium, which would look weird on TV and I don't think the XFL would go for it.  

[MJWalker45]

5 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

Would Columbia's stadium work?

17,000 seats and still in Manhattan, It could work but I think you're dealing with track and field, both meets and practices as well as other issues throughout the season. You'd also have to remove the field turf and replace it similar to what Houston did. 

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Indeed.  A big mistake.

Ideally the XFL should have been able to rent out Red Bull Stadium. But if Red Bull wouldn't do that rental (despite doing rentals for lacrosse and rugby), then some arrangement with a college must have been possible, and at a cost that is a fraction of what it costs to rent the Meadowlands stadium.  I know that the league wants to appear big-time; but playing in a cavernous empty stadium achieves just the opposite.

I wonder if they were getting the same push back from fans about it being too far from the center of NYC itself. The team itself may have taken issue with it, but unlike DC united, they appear to have control over their stadium. 

[GDAWG]

Ideally, if NYCFC had had their own stadium then the Guardians might have been able to play there.  Seeing as that's not in the plans anytime soon, the Guardians are stuck where they are.  

[GDAWG]

20 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Indeed.  A big mistake.

Ideally the XFL should have been able to rent out Red Bull Stadium. But if Red Bull wouldn't do that rental (despite doing rentals for lacrosse and rugby), then some arrangement with a college must have been possible, and at a cost that is a fraction of what it costs to rent the Meadowlands stadium.  I know that the league wants to appear big-time; but playing in a cavernous empty stadium achieves just the opposite.

 

I think that Rutgers and Princeton would be a bit too far from the New York Metro area to be considered.  

 

Also with Tampa, Raymond James was the only option.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

46 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

That's the problem with playing in New York. the biggest college stadiums in the city may not have enough seats. then you look rinky dink because you'r playing in 5,000-10,000 seat stadiums. 

 

I don't know; I think having a crowd of 5000 in a 10,000-seat stadium stadiums would look respectable.

 

31 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

I think that Rutgers and Princeton would be a bit too far from the New York Metro area to be considered.  

 

Right.  But there's the 10,000-seat stadium at Hofstra University that the Cosmos have used and that the MLL's New York Lizards use.  That is located on Long Island, about 10 miles from the City line, and about 25 miles from Times Square.  Then there's Fordham's stadium, seating about 7000.

Going down from there is Icahn Stadium on Randall's Island, which seats 5000.  (That stadium sits on site of the former Downing Stadium, where the Cosmos played several matches in the 1970s, before the full force of Pele's arrival had been felt.)  Other small stadiums in the area are those of Wagner College on Staten Island (3500), Iona College in Westchester (2500), and St. John's University in Queens (2000).

Any of these would be preferable to the embarrassment of the Meadowlands.

[MJWalker45]

11 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I don't know; I think having a crowd of 5000 in a 10,000-seat stadium stadiums would look respectable.

 

 

Right.  But there's the 10,000-seat stadium at Hofstra University that the Cosmos have used and that the MLL's New York Lizards use.  That is located on Long Island, about 10 miles from the City line, and about 25 miles from Times Square.  Then there's Fordham's stadium, seating about 7000.

Going down from there is Icahn Stadium on Randall's Island, which seats 5000.  (That stadium sits on site of the former Downing Stadium, where the Cosmos played several matches in the 1970s, before the full force of Pele's arrival had been felt.)  Other small stadiums in the area are those of Wagner College on Staten Island (3500), Iona College in Westchester (2500), and St. John's University in Queens (2000).

Any of these would be preferable to the embarrassment of the Meadowlands.

I think they'd rather look like a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a teacup. 

[GDAWG]

12 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I don't know; I think having a crowd of 5000 in a 10,000-seat stadium stadiums would look respectable.

 

 

Right.  But there's the 10,000-seat stadium at Hofstra University that the Cosmos have used and that the MLL's New York Lizards use.  That is located on Long Island, about 10 miles from the City line, and about 25 miles from Times Square.  Then there's Fordham's stadium, seating about 7000.

Going down from there is Icahn Stadium on Randall's Island, which seats 5000.  (That stadium sits on site of the former Downing Stadium, where the Cosmos played several matches in the 1970s, before the full force of Pele's arrival had been felt.)  Other small stadiums in the area are those of Wagner College on Staten Island (3500), Iona College in Westchester (2500), and St. John's University in Queens (2000).

Any of these would be preferable to the embarrassment of the Meadowlands.

 

I don't think Vince McMahon wants to play in those smaller stadiums.  He wants stadiums of at least 20,000 or more.  

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

10 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I think they'd rather look like a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a teacup.

 

Well, they are about to get their wish.

 

10 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

I don't think Vince McMahon wants to play in those smaller stadiums.  He wants stadiums of at least 20,000 or more. 

 

Yes.  But, I don't know of another such stadium apart from Red Bull Arena.

After I made the previous comment, I thought of two more options: the minor-league baseball stadiums that house the Brooklyn Cyclones and the Staten Island Yankees, both of which seat around 7000.

Football has already been played at the Cyclones' park, as the FXFL's Brooklyn Bolts played there from 2014 to 2016.

 

And the Staten Island ballpark, sitting right near the Staten Island Ferry, is much more accessible to the rest of the City than Wagner College is.

But McMahon is evidently insistent about the Meadowlands folly. The league had some good-looking television games in the first few weeks; but some of that good publicity and positive buzz is going to get counteracted.

[Red Comet]

I think the Guardians might wind up getting moved to Philadelphia or Birmingham. Anything would be better than having essentially the players' family and friends be at a 80,000 seat stadium.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

21 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

I think the Guardians might wind up getting moved to Philadelphia or Birmingham. Anything would be better than having essentially the players' family and friends be at a 80,000 seat stadium.

 

Well, while this week is sure to look terrible, let's see what happens after PEREZ MAGIC washes over the city! 

(Of course I am being ridiculous, because even if the mighty Perez takes the city by storm and triples this week's expected crowd, it will still look pathetic in that stadium.)

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Well, they are about to get their wish.

 

 

Yes.  But, I don't know of another such stadium apart from Red Bull Arena.

After I made the previous comment, I thought of two more options: the minor-league baseball stadiums that house the Brooklyn Cyclones and the Staten Island Yankees, both of which seat around 7000.

Football has already been played at the Cyclones' park, as the FXFL's Brooklyn Bolts played there from 2014 to 2016.

 

And the Staten Island ballpark, sitting right near the Staten Island Ferry, is much more accessible to the rest of the City than Wagner College is.

But McMahon is evidently insistent about the Meadowlands folly. The league had some good-looking television games in the first few weeks; but some of that good publicity and positive buzz is going to get counteracted.

 

I doubt the XFL will be interested in playing in baseball stadiums where the baseball team still occupies that stadium, especially one as small as MCU Park.  

[IceCap]

James M. Shuart Stadium seems ideal for the XFL. Hell, if they play there they might actually have demand for that outpaces ticket availability. Even drawing a decent 17,000 in MetLife looks awful.

 

I'm unsure why Red Bull Arena is a no-go. It's owned by the county, not the Red Bulls or Red Bull GmbH. The Red Bulls may not want gridiron football played there (though that is itself a dumb opinion soccer fans and soccer teams need to get over imo) but I find it hard to believe the county would turn down the extra revenue that would come with the XFL filling dates. 

 

5 hours ago, GDAWG said:

Also with Tampa, Raymond James was the only option.

USF is apparently exploring the possibility of a 40,000-50,000 seat football stadium on campus.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/college/usf-releases-conceptual-study-for-on-campus-stadium/2333026/

 

The Vipers may want to consider that if 1) USF actually builds it and 2) the XFL and/or Vipers are still around by then. 40,000-50,000 is probably too big, but 17,000 in a stadium of that size will look better then 17,000 in 65,618 Raymond James.

Plus playing in this hypothetical stadium would work better with presentation. The Vipers would "seem" more at home in the green and gold USF Bulls' stadium compared to the red and black of Raymond James.

[dfwabel]

29 minutes ago, IceCap said:

James M. Shuart Stadium seems ideal for the XFL. Hell, if they play there they might actually have demand for that outpaces ticket availability. Even drawing a decent 17,000 in MetLife looks awful.

 

I'm unsure why Red Bull Arena is a no-go. It's owned by the county, not the Red Bulls or Red Bull GmbH. The Red Bulls may not want gridiron football played there (though that is itself a dumb opinion soccer fans and soccer teams need to get over imo) but I find it hard to believe the county would turn down the extra revenue that would come with the XFL filling dates. 

While the land is owned by the Town of Harrison through The Harrison Redevelopment Agency, the Red Bulls, who financed the construction of the stadium, contend that the three separate leases they signed with the Agency in regards to the redevelopment of the land, given them the right to operate the stadium as they please.  There was a lawsuit brought by the Red Bulls against Harrison which was over property taxes which the team put certain terms of their various agreements within the court's 2014 opinion, which the Red Bulls lost.

 

Excerpts (bolded by me):

Quote

In connection with the stadium project, on May 16, 2006, the Agency, Authority, and Red Bull entered into three agreements: (1) a Redeveloper Agreement, which required Red Bull, as redeveloper, to develop the land as a soccer and entertainment stadium; (2) a Ground and Stadium Lease, which required the Agency, as "owner of fee simple title," to lease the land to the Authority (the lease); and (3) a Ground and Stadium Sublease, which required the Authority to sublet the land to Red Bull (the sublease). The lease term was thirty years, with Red Bull having the sole option to extend for four additional successive periods of five years, for a maximum of fifty years "unless otherwise mutually agreed upon in writing by the [p]arties." Red Bull and the Town also entered into a Non-Relocation Agreement, which required Red Bull to play its soccer home games at the stadium for at least seven years.

The lease incorporated the Redeveloper's Agreement.

The Agency acquired title to the land by eminent domain and retained title pursuant to the lease. Under the lease and sublease, Red Bull owned the stadium during the lease term, with ownership reverting to the Agency when the lease terminated. Pursuant to the lease, Red Bull also had

 

the exclusive right to manage, operate and control the Premises, including the exclusive right to: (i) schedule all Events; (ii) negotiate and sell all naming rights and broadcasting rights; (iii) negotiate and execute all sponsorship, signage, rental and vendor agreements; (iv) conduct all advertising and promotions; (v) make all decisions regarding Stadium operations, admissions, ticketing, merchandising and concessions (including, without limitation, the right to set ticket prices for all Events at the Stadium in its sole and absolute discretion); (vi) implement all construction and alterations of Improvements; and (vii) make all decisions regarding whether or not Stadium Events will be assigned seating or general admission.

In addition, Red Bull received all revenue generated by the stadium, including revenue from the sale of the stadium's naming rights. Except for rent, the Agency received no revenue generated by the stadium.

 

The lease defined the "premises" as "the [land], Stadium, Parking Lots and Infrastructure."

The Authority and Agency retained some limited rights and interests in the land and stadium during the lease term that allowed them to enforce restrictions on Red Bull's use. For example, Red Bull could only use the stadium for specifically enumerated purposes and could not name it, place signs or advertising outside of it, illuminate it, use it for major events before 7:30 p.m., or transfer any portion of the lease or sublease. In addition, with certain restrictions, the Agency could use the stadium for other purposes, such as international soccer matches, regional college soccer matches, and international rugby matches, which were all open to the general public. The Town could use the stadium for four civic events each year, including public ceremonies, protocol events, high school regional or state championships, and municipal fairs. The Agency's and Town's rights and uses were subordinate and subject to Red Bull's rights and uses.

State case law, which is in the linked ruling, points to the team owning the building, thus responsible for property tax.

Quote

The Agency owns the property even though, pursuant to the lease and sublease, Red Bull owns the stadium during the lease term. In re Xanadu Project at Meadowlands Complex, 415 N.J. Super. 179, 208 (App. Div.), certif. denied, 205 N.J. 96 (2010). In Xanadu, the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority (NJSEA) leased its property to a private lessee. Id. at 182. Pursuant to the lease, the private lessee owned the buildings located on property during the lease term, with ownership of the buildings reverting to the NJSEA when the lease terminated. Id. at 206. We rejected the argument that the lease effectively created a fee simple ownership interest in the private lessee. Id. at 208; see also Claremont Health Sys., Inc. v. Borough of Point Pleasant, 16 N.J. Tax 604, 622-24 (Tax 1997) (holding that the landlord was the "owner" of a building where the lease required that ownership revert to the landlord at the conclusion of the thirty-five-year term).

snip

Quote

We recognize that the Authorities Law authorizes the Authority to operate public facilities for public recreation and entertainment; however, Red Bull operates the stadium privately for its own economic benefit, not for recreation or activities freely open to the general public. Notwithstanding the Town's right to use the stadium for four civic events per year, or the Agency's ability to use the stadium for events open to the general public, those uses are subordinate to Red Bull's rights and do not convert the stadium to a public use as contemplated by the Authorities Law and Redevelopment Law.

Unquestionably, attracting a major league soccer team was a major part of the redevelopment plan. Nevertheless, Red Bull's actual operation of the stadium exceeds the Authority's and Agency's statutory mandates. Accordingly, because the property is not used for a statutorily authorized public purpose, it is not tax exempt.

Affirmed.