Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Gothamite said: But it does mean they won’t also support the pro game. If attendance drops when the seasons overlap. It doesn't mean much. They will support the pro game as long as it doesn't cross with cfb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said: Its not exactly thought of as the most inclusive part of the country. Stereotypes don't make it a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Wizza said: They will support the pro game as long as it doesn't cross with cfb. My point exactly. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Gothamite said: My point exactly. you did not make that point at all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I don’t think Birmingham would support a pro football team. You indicated the city would, so long as it didn’t compete with college football. Which only reinforces what I was saying. Look, I think I may have offended you. That was not my intention, nor was it to insult Birmingham; there are many fine places to live that don’t host top-level professional sports. That alone does not make a great city. Nor even a good one. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, Gothamite said: I don’t think Birmingham would support a pro football team. You indicated the city would, so long as it didn’t compete with college football. Which only reinforces what I was saying. Look, I think I may have offended you. That was not my intention, nor was it to insult Birmingham; there are many fine places to live that don’t host top-level professional sports. That alone does not make a great city. Nor even a good one. Where in the world did "a place is no good if it don't got top level sports" come from? There was no mention of Birmingham as a city itself from me. It seems you may have confused me arguing pro ball can work to mean the NFL can work. Which is not the case. On another note, you were arguing that Birmingham couldn't support a pro football team and yes I said the city could support a team as long as they didn't run into college ball. The point does not reinforce at all your first point that Birmingham could not support a team or that it was not a market for pro football. If you have read my other posts in this thread is that Birmingham has supported the teams placed there. I'm not saying Birmingham should get a pro team but that they will support the team if placed there. I'm not offended, I was only trying to communicate to you my side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 hours ago, Wizza said: Birmingham has eagerly supported most of the teams. You see attendance usually dip around college football season. The three attempts after the Stallions averaged about 16,000 which was half of what the Stallions drew. They basically draw a poorly as UAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Oh, good. Sometimes these conversations become interpreted as “your city can’t support a pro team because it sucks.” Which was never my intention. That being said, if Birmingham can support a professional team so long as it doesn’t conflict with college football, then it can’t actually support a professional team. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, dfwabel said: The three attempts after the Stallions averaged about 16,000 which was half of what the Stallions drew. They basically draw a poorly as UAB. Yeah, the general populace doesn't turn up to see losing football. but the 16,000 or so fans that show up, they are loyal and passionate. The Fire and Bolts were awful teams and the fact they somehow drew any people is probably a testament to just deep rooted football is in that city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Gothamite said: Oh, good. Sometimes these conversations become interpreted as “your city can’t support a pro team because it sucks.” Which was never my intention. That being said, if Birmingham can support a professional team so long as it doesn’t conflict with college football, then it can’t actually support a professional team. I guess We're just gonna have to agree to disagree then. My idea of support is always peeps will show up when they have the chance and throw themselves fully into it. As long as they're buying the merch and stuff/supporting the team with their money, holla out loud for the team in the stands when they have the chance. I feel that's support. I don't really hinge support on showing up to games. If people can, that's great. But as long as they rep the team and such, that'll be good. I get how deep rooted and important college ball is important to Birmingham so I wouldn't expect them to toss that aside for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 47 minutes ago, Wizza said: college ball is important to Birmingham so I wouldn't expect them to toss that aside for something else. Many cities manage to support more than one. Birmingham just can’t, which is one very good reason why they don’t have a pro team. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, Gothamite said: Many cities manage to support more than one. Birmingham just can’t, which is one very good reason why they don’t have a pro team. Did you not not read my message, seemed like you just skimmed for the easiest one to counter. eh, college ball is still king in a lot of those towns. I presume you are talking about cities such as: Charlotte, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, and Atlanta. A lot of those teams have the benefit of a stable league and years to cultivate a fanbase. You gotta remember a few years isn't enough to really draw away from college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 No, I read your whole message. I just think it bolsters my point. I think we’re now going in circles, so maybe we’d best leave it. Thanks for the conversation! The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Wizza said: Yeah, the general populace doesn't turn up to see losing football. but the 16,000 or so fans that show up, they are loyal and passionate. The Fire and Bolts were awful teams and the fact they somehow drew any people is probably a testament to just deep rooted football is in that city. Or those old enough to purchase Stallions seats didn't bother to get their hopes up for yet another pro football attempt. Those who had seats in 1983, are likely retired or closing in on retirement age. As a result, a generation plus of residents haven't had alt football in their town and won't pay for the product in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wolf Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said: Its not exactly thought of as the most inclusive part of the country. I get what you're saying, but this is nowhere close to being a reason that Birmingham has issues supporting professional sports. Being the 104th largest city in the US (49th largest metro) however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wizza Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 11 hours ago, Gothamite said: No, I read your whole message. I just think it bolsters my point. I think we’re now going in circles, so maybe we’d best leave it. Thanks for the conversation! Not al all. You point was that Birmingham could not support a team. You articulated very poorly why it was the case and insisted that the contrary bolstered your argument. You seem to believe that a city has to show up to games to count as support. That is how teams survive though, not support. Its not just people who support the team go to games. If you argued on the basis that the number of season ticket holders per team wasn't good, I'll accept. You seem to hinge support on gameday attendance, completely ignoring other forms of support. You were flatly arguing that Birmingham could not support a team. We're not going in circles, you have been hammering one point over and over and refused to properly articulate why, instead relying on the counterarguments of others to bolster your one point leading to a rather poor argument. You can say Birmingham could not support a team but when countered by the Birmingham can support a team argument, you cannot "yeah, but if attendance dips, Birmingham couldn't support a team" First off, this is a different argument from your first one which is Birmingham could not support a team. This is Birmingham could not support a team because attendance dips in cfb season. Plus you cannot keep saying Birmingham cant support a team when provided with evidence to contrary. You could argue support will wither when it is college season and that teams need season long support. But you did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Wasn't Las Vegas also one of those places where alternative football leagues go and end up dying? It'll be interesting to see how the Raiders do there. And I wonder how Birmingham feels about the fact that Vegas is going to get an NFL team? I highly doubt that the people in Birmingham ever though places like Jacksonville, Nashville and Las Vegas would get NFL teams before they do or even any pro teams for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, GDAWG said: Wasn't Las Vegas also one of those places where alternative football leagues go and end up dying? It'll be interesting to see how the Raiders do there. And I wonder how Birmingham feels about the fact that Vegas is going to get an NFL team? I highly doubt that the people in Birmingham ever though places like Jacksonville, Nashville and Las Vegas would get NFL teams before they do or even any pro teams for that matter. In addition to having an extended metro of only 1.2M (49th largest US metro according to Wikipedia), the city proper declined by 12% last census, the county declared bankruptcy a few years back, and while not always telling of the whole story, the income stats (median, per capita, etc.) are horrendous. There's plenty of arguments against LV and Jacksonville in the NFL, but not a single one for Birmingham. Actually, I can't think of a single one for Jacksonville either. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Also, several other cities who don't have pro teams could one day surpass Birmingham like Vegas has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, GDAWG said: Wasn't Las Vegas also one of those places where alternative football leagues go and end up dying? It'll be interesting to see how the Raiders do there. And I wonder how Birmingham feels about the fact that Vegas is going to get an NFL team? I highly doubt that the people in Birmingham ever though places like Jacksonville, Nashville and Las Vegas would get NFL teams before they do or even any pro teams for that matter. The Raiders are a different matter. They are one of the best supported pro franchises overall. Easy access via McCarron Airport means you can pander to fans from Oakland. LA fans will still travel 6 hours, just in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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