mr.nascar13

Death of the Alliance of American Football

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Also, this thread is only seven months old. We wouldn't even officially know the new XFL existed yet if it were using the AAF timeline.

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On 10/17/2018 at 8:41 AM, leopard88 said:

Yes, I know this is minor league football, but the $15/game tickets are enticing . . . even if they're not exactly the best seats in the house.

 

Not going lie, that piqued my interest. Fleet haven’t revealed their prices yet, but I suspect they’ll be comparable seeing as their stadium is one of the two largest in the league

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5 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

 

 

Precisely.  AAF is doing this the hard, hard way.  The result up to this point has been a slapdash effort, in some cases obviously just thrown together.  The league still has dozens of key team front ofice jobs available less than 20 weeks before their teams start play, in an industry where there are people who would pay you for the privilege of working in sports.  They have good intentions, but no experience.

 

XFL is taking it's time this time around, trying to do it right.  They're going to take virtually every second of this two-year ramp up to do things just right.  They've made a minimum half billion dollar capital contribution to its success.  They learned the lesson all sports leagues should:  that you don't announce anything until it's locked down, tight.

 

My understanding has been that the AAF had been planing and working behind the scenes for a year, then announced that they were going to play. Whereas the XFL has done nothing, announced they were going to play, and just now are doing things. 

 

As far as the AAF missing tons of key front office jobs, I can say (from my inside knowledge) that all the positions for the league office and the key positions for the team front offices are filled. They just haven't made a lot of that information available to the public at this point.

 

I don't see the worry and concern most people have with the AAF. They have their act together and seem to be doing well. 

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35 minutes ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

My understanding has been that the AAF had been planing and working behind the scenes for a year, then announced that they were going to play. Whereas the XFL has done nothing, announced they were going to play, and just now are doing things. 

 

As far as the AAF missing tons of key front office jobs, I can say (from my inside knowledge) that all the positions for the league office and the key positions for the team front offices are filled. They just haven't made a lot of that information available to the public at this point.

 

I don't see the worry and concern most people have with the AAF. They have their act together and seem to be doing well. 

 

This is not the result of a year's behind the scenes planning.  I'm involved in a sports-related project where, if all goes well, it will launch in mid-2020.  The people I'm involved with are 22 months away from its debut and 14+ months away from even announcing its existence, presuming it goes forward.  Know what this project is?  No.  Know why?  Because the people involved aren't flying by the seats of their pants, and aren't willing to risk their reputations by announcing something until everything is in place:  markets, facilities, certain corporate partners, and certainly key personnel ready to roll in each of its markets.

 

The AAF announced team presidents (whatever they are, considering its a single entity league) within the past month.  They pissed away two months disclosing playing sites, probably as they finally closed stadium lease deals, rather than locking them up during that alleged year of planning and announcing them all at once - as I suspect XFL will do when it's ready to do so.  That was two months - and it's been another month-plus - in which they've not sold a single season ticket plan, let alone single game tickets.  They took $50 deposits on season ticket plans; plans which will ultimately translate into sales but as yet haven't.  They signed 500 guys named Phil to player contracts, which is fine, but they're just now filling the sales staff positions needed to push their product.

 

I also don't think AAF is nearly as well financed as Charlie and DICK (I know Ebersol; I use his first name as a noun) and Bill Polian and so forth suggest.  The "working behind the scenes for a year" was lining up the money men they've found in all likelihood.  But these are VC guys and not football guys - at some point... and one a lot sooner than Charlie or DICK think... these guys are going to want to cash out.  And while they're doing some things right on the football side?  On the business side they were woefully inept at the outset, and are just now starting to get things in place - but they're also a year behind where they should be in that regard.

 

The difference between AAF and XFL is that Vince McMahon has been down this road before.  He knows the mistakes that were made nearly 20 years ago, and this time he's avoiding them as best he can.  Charlie and DICK, meanwhile, are making every one of those mistakes, because they didn't adequately study the histories of the WFL, original XFL, AAFL, 'new USFL,' A-11 League and UFL before them.  McMahon made his announcement when he did in all probability because Charlie and DICK forced his hand, but XFL will have the benefit of two years of planning and infrastructure placement (as opposed to months) plus a very public, singular commitment to invest $500 million into the project versus a few VC firms, the withdrawal on a whim of any one of which will kill the AAF.

 

I wouldn't bet on either prospering or even surviving.  I would bet however, on (i) the XFL outlasting AAF, and/or (ii) XFL and AAF ultimately merging once everything shakes out.  No way do both survive though.

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If everything is in place before an announcement, then there won't be need for an announcement, because so many people would know all the details and it would already be out - one way or another.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

If everything is in place before an announcement, then there won't be need for an announcement, because so many people would know all the details and it would already be out - one way or another.

 

 

"We are pleased to announce that we have nothing to announce!"

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1 minute ago, Quillz said:

"We are pleased to announce that we have nothing to announce!"

 

That's essentially what the XFL announcement was.

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I hope neither the AAF or the XFL needs a rules analyst like apparently every network that covers the NFL has, which is stupid to begin with. 

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

If everything is in place before an announcement, then there won't be need for an announcement, because so many people would know all the details and it would already be out - one way or another.

 

Vague information would hit the streets, sure.  But at the very least on the day it's announced, everything's ready to roll toward generating revenue.  AAF didn't bring in its first dollar of true revenue (STH deposits don't count in my book, as they're refundable) until they were 6-7 most post-announcement.  That's not how it could've - or should've - been done.

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35 minutes ago, Mac the Knife said:

 

Vague information would hit the streets, sure.  But at the very least on the day it's announced, everything's ready to roll toward generating revenue.  AAF didn't bring in its first dollar of true revenue (STH deposits don't count in my book, as they're refundable) until they were 6-7 most post-announcement.  That's not how it could've - or should've - been done.

Yeah, they didn't announce Starter as their jersey partner until months after starting.

 

That said, who else is really a partner with them?  We're never really heard. I just know of Starter and CBS Sports.

 

They really seem to be focused on a gambling/daily fantasy app which is not legal everywhere they'll have a team and New Mexico allowing sports gambling this week takes the number of states that allow it to just six.

 

 

 

Edited by dfwabel

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San Diego State has 50 years of equity yet cannot draw 30K.

 

But y'all think that some off-Broadway squad can draw 30K/game?

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I say the Fleet draw 15,000 on a good day. Waiting for all enema jokes on social media. 

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I follow the Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook accounts/groups for all 8 franchises, along with a couple of unofficial groups. What's really starting to annoy me is that, pretty much every day, there is at least one post of someone asking to try out, when tryouts are, how to get in contact with a coach, or send their film. First, it seems that these individuals haven't done a moment's research into the AAF to find that tryouts are over and were done months ago. Along with that, they seem to miss or ignore the fact that this same question has been asked over and over and over again with the response of "you missed it". But I think what really bothers me is that there seems to be no attempts by any moderator to inform these people of this nor do any of the pages have any particular disclaimer stating no to ask about tryouts or sending film. I don't know, nor care, if these people are former NFL or college players but, isn't this a question you'd ask of your agent rather than ask on a Facebook page? Why are the continuing to go to official fan pages? People are saying a lot of negative things about the AAF, but the only thing that I really have to say is that there seems to be no attempt to stop these people from flooding social media with a question that has already been answered. 

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Any of these minor leagues should actually have tryouts nowish. If this were the NFL, they would be having the draft right now; plenty of time for undrafted free agents and such to latch on. I don’t understand why these AAF rosters are supposedly locked down so far ahead of time. It makes sense that these guys are wanting to try out now... there’s finally team names, a schedule, etc. Even if the AAF doesn’t get many players this way, it’s a way to get on the local news.

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2 hours ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

I follow the Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook accounts/groups for all 8 franchises, along with a couple of unofficial groups. What's really starting to annoy me is that, pretty much every day, there is at least one post of someone asking to try out, when tryouts are, how to get in contact with a coach, or send their film. First, it seems that these individuals haven't done a moment's research into the AAF to find that tryouts are over and were done months ago. Along with that, they seem to miss or ignore the fact that this same question has been asked over and over and over again with the response of "you missed it". But I think what really bothers me is that there seems to be no attempts by any moderator to inform these people of this nor do any of the pages have any particular disclaimer stating no to ask about tryouts or sending film. I don't know, nor care, if these people are former NFL or college players but, isn't this a question you'd ask of your agent rather than ask on a Facebook page? Why are the continuing to go to official fan pages? People are saying a lot of negative things about the AAF, but the only thing that I really have to say is that there seems to be no attempt to stop these people from flooding social media with a question that has already been answered. 

 

Back when I had the content of USFL.info separated from info from other domains on subjects I've written about I had prospective players reaching out to me for tryout information regarding various leagues.  Like I knew if/when the A-11 League or some podunk start-up indoor league was going to conduct player tryouts, or that I could help them find a job.  There's a term for these people... "idiots."

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So, in another example of "We don't really know what the hell we're doing..."

 

The AAF announced today that its first two championship games will be staged in... wait for it... Las Vegas, at Sam Boyd Stadium.

 

They're going to stage their championship game in a city in which...

-- They operate no franchise,

-- They won't have developed a rabid enough fan base in any market east of San Antonio willing to make the trip for the game,

-- It'll likely start getting hot as Hell just around the time the game's liable to kick off (I suspect others may argue with me on it, but having been in Las Vegas in February and sweating my ass off multiple times, I can't imagine what it'd be like in April), and

-- They're building a brand new stadium to welcome their NFL franchise.

 

What are they thinking here?

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39 minutes ago, Mac the Knife said:

So, in another example of "We don't really know what the hell we're doing..."

 

The AAF announced today that its first two championship games will be staged in... wait for it... Las Vegas, at Sam Boyd Stadium.

 

They're going to stage their championship game in a city in which...

-- They operate no franchise,

-- They won't have developed a rabid enough fan base in any market east of San Antonio willing to make the trip for the game,

-- It'll likely start getting hot as Hell just around the time the game's liable to kick off (I suspect others may argue with me on it, but having been in Las Vegas in February and sweating my ass off multiple times, I can't imagine what it'd be like in April), and

-- They're building a brand new stadium to welcome their NFL franchise.

 

What are they thinking here?

1- The gambling tie in is something that the still need to push. Apparently, MGM Resorts is a league partner. LVE (Las Vegas Events), which is funded by the hotel tax, bought and brought the game there.

 

2- They want Salt Lake City to do well and fans drive the 5.5 hours.

Edited by dfwabel

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1 hour ago, Mac the Knife said:

So, in another example of "We don't really know what the hell we're doing..."

 

The AAF announced today that its first two championship games will be staged in... wait for it... Las Vegas, at Sam Boyd Stadium.

 

They're going to stage their championship game in a city in which...

-- They operate no franchise,

-- They won't have developed a rabid enough fan base in any market east of San Antonio willing to make the trip for the game,

-- It'll likely start getting hot as Hell just around the time the game's liable to kick off (I suspect others may argue with me on it, but having been in Las Vegas in February and sweating my ass off multiple times, I can't imagine what it'd be like in April), and

-- They're building a brand new stadium to welcome their NFL franchise.

 

What are they thinking here?

 

When they are able to stage a second one, all the media in Vegas will be talking about Football wise is who will be the first NFL player drafted to the Las Vegas Raiders. 

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On 10/20/2018 at 7:02 AM, Mac the Knife said:

 

This is not the result of a year's behind the scenes planning.  I'm involved in a sports-related project where, if all goes well, it will launch in mid-2020.  The people I'm involved with are 22 months away from its debut and 14+ months away from even announcing its existence, presuming it goes forward.  Know what this project is?  No.  Know why?  Because the people involved aren't flying by the seats of their pants, and aren't willing to risk their reputations by announcing something until everything is in place:  markets, facilities, certain corporate partners, and certainly key personnel ready to roll in each of its markets.

 

The AAF announced team presidents (whatever they are, considering its a single entity league) within the past month.  They pissed away two months disclosing playing sites, probably as they finally closed stadium lease deals, rather than locking them up during that alleged year of planning and announcing them all at once - as I suspect XFL will do when it's ready to do so.  That was two months - and it's been another month-plus - in which they've not sold a single season ticket plan, let alone single game tickets.  They took $50 deposits on season ticket plans; plans which will ultimately translate into sales but as yet haven't.  They signed 500 guys named Phil to player contracts, which is fine, but they're just now filling the sales staff positions needed to push their product.

 

I also don't think AAF is nearly as well financed as Charlie and DICK (I know Ebersol; I use his first name as a noun) and Bill Polian and so forth suggest.  The "working behind the scenes for a year" was lining up the money men they've found in all likelihood.  But these are VC guys and not football guys - at some point... and one a lot sooner than Charlie or DICK think... these guys are going to want to cash out.  And while they're doing some things right on the football side?  On the business side they were woefully inept at the outset, and are just now starting to get things in place - but they're also a year behind where they should be in that regard.

 

The difference between AAF and XFL is that Vince McMahon has been down this road before.  He knows the mistakes that were made nearly 20 years ago, and this time he's avoiding them as best he can.  Charlie and DICK, meanwhile, are making every one of those mistakes, because they didn't adequately study the histories of the WFL, original XFL, AAFL, 'new USFL,' A-11 League and UFL before them.  McMahon made his announcement when he did in all probability because Charlie and DICK forced his hand, but XFL will have the benefit of two years of planning and infrastructure placement (as opposed to months) plus a very public, singular commitment to invest $500 million into the project versus a few VC firms, the withdrawal on a whim of any one of which will kill the AAF.

 

I wouldn't bet on either prospering or even surviving.  I would bet however, on (i) the XFL outlasting AAF, and/or (ii) XFL and AAF ultimately merging once everything shakes out.  No way do both survive though.

I understand why someone would criticize the AAF for perhaps hastily rushing to market, but you can't dismiss that they're also very clearly pursuing a first-to-market strategy. It's not like the original XFL, the AAFL, the UFL or the others where they're launching a league in isolation. The Ebersols know they're going head to head with a rival league that will be attempting to do the very same thing. There's not likely room for two two minor professional football leagues to succeed (if any), so being first to market has its advantages.

 

This isn't an endorsement of the strategy, but it can't be dismissed either. 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

I understand why someone would criticize the AAF for perhaps hastily rushing to market, but you can't dismiss that they're also very clearly pursuing a first-to-market strategy. It's not like the original XFL, the AAFL, the UFL or the others where they're launching a league in isolation. The Ebersols know they're going head to head with a rival league that will be attempting to do the very same thing. There's not likely room for two two minor professional football leagues to succeed (if any), so being first to market has its advantages.

 

This isn't an endorsement of the strategy, but it can't be dismissed either. 

 

The upside of launching right now is greatly outweighed by the downside of not launching right.  And the upside of having a spotlight on you is weighed equally with the downside of being exposed by it.

 

Personally I'd like to see them both succeed.  I don't think either can to be honest.  But I'm really enjoying watching how this all is unfolding.

 

AAF is making the typical mistakes every pro football league dating back a half century (including the original XFL) have made before them.  They're also crowing a lot more than they should be about how well capitalized they are - like they're trying to convince themselves of it; that they're a more stable enterprise than is probably the case in reality.  Like they're answering a question no one's really asking.

 

XFL 2: Electric Boogaloo, meanwhile, is doing something remarkable as I see it.  This time around (so far, anyway) their doing things exactly as I would:  as quietly as humanly possible, keeping everything under wraps unless, and until, they want information out to the public.  And when they do hit the ground, I suspect they're going to hit it not running, but flying, thanks to a personal commitment of up to $500 million from Vince McMahon.

 

There are a lot of ways things could turn out, and all of them are fascinating...

-- AAF could completely flop and be a one-season wonder in 2019, dying before the XFL plays a game.

-- AAF survives long enough for XFL to whack it out after a year or two.

-- They go head to head starting in 2020 and wind up merging at some point down the road.

 

The one I don't see is AAF surviving and taking out the XFL.

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