dfwabel Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Sykotyk said: You should really follow @emptyseatpics on twitter and see just how unrealistic announced attendance numbers are for all leagues. Major and minor. I've been to Browns games with 30,000 or so and had reported crowds near capacity. And yes, the argument made is those tickets were 'distributed' so they count, but that's not what attendance is. Browns have TV money thus they can meet not just player payroll, but all other staff. If you worked for the Memphis Express tonight, would you think you had a job for the next two years since the players have a 3-year deal, or would you start looking for a gig on Linkedin immediately and are happy your apartment is a six month lease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, See Red said: The NCAA actually has an attendance requirement teams have to meet to stay in the top tier. It's 15,000 per game, I think. So it's pretty common to see programs that don't do all that well fudge the numbers by giving away tickets and then counting those towards paid attendance whether they're used or not. Big programs do it too to make their own numbers look more impressive. I know some will count everybody working in the stadium that day towards attendance. Nebraska has been 'selling out' their stadium for the past few years despite whole swaths of the stadium upper levels empty. Since there's no minimum 'price' for tickets, especially 'group sales', schools and teams can just issue out basically all remaining tickets for nothing or near nothing to a major sponsor or donor to claim higher attendance once the game has started. Interesting story is that Cleveland Browns while at Municipal Stadium had a work-around with the NFL's blackout policy. Because Muni held about 84,000 but more than 12,000 of those seats were 'obstructed' views due to the columns. Those tickets didn't sell well except for the really big games. So, the local television station that was going to air the game would buy the remaining seats 72 hours before the game to make sure they could air it. The 'group sale' was next to nothing. Sometimes they'd give them to school kids or groups or something, but usually just went unused so they could air the game. One reason the new stadium when built was 72,000 seats with no obstructions. To make sure the usual 'regular' attendance would still fill the stadium without worrying about trying to to sell the remaining crap seats that some of them you could barely see the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The Browns have hope heading into the next season, so maybe they will sell out FirstEnergy Stadium (or close to it) for the home opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, dfwabel said: Browns have TV money thus they can meet not just player payroll, but all other staff. If you worked for the Memphis Express tonight, would you think you had a job for the next two years since the players have a 3-year deal, or would you start looking for a gig on Linkedin immediately and are happy your apartment is a six month lease? That would depend on the employee or contractor. Initial startup was never going to be profitable. Hardly any business is profitable immediately. So, it's hard to say a player is going to run away from the league because they think the AAF is going to fail. As with virtually ever previous league, they'll keep playing or working until the paychecks stop clearing the bank. As for housing or leases, a lot of these teams do short-term housing themselves at a local hotel. Arena/indoor leagues have done that with regularity. Usually a straight trade for sponsorship to house x number of players during the season. The big problem with AAF is that their TV deals weren't for guaranteed cash. It appears they're operating on the old AFL type deal. Broadcaster covers their costs, and then any profit is split. Modern TV audiences being so sparse, live sports are big draws and usually hit that 18-39 male sweet spot advertisers love. And not being on a major network every week is goign to hurt them down the stretch. It just depends on their investors and what type of forecast they have for Year 2. And it's clear they're angling to get some involvement from the NFL. Or at least appear there's involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, GDAWG said: The Browns have hope heading into the next season, so maybe they will sell out FirstEnergy Stadium (or close to it) for the home opener. Season tickets are almost sold out. So, aside from those comps set aside for players, staff, giveaways, sponsors, etc, it's going to be sold out all year I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I think that there is indirect involvement from the NFL, because if the NFL took over the AAF, there would be changes made, like moving Atlanta to Mercedes Benz Stadium and/or Arizona to Glendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sykotyk said: That would depend on the employee or contractor. Initial startup was never going to be profitable. Hardly any business is profitable immediately. So, it's hard to say a player is going to run away from the league because they think the AAF is going to fail. As with virtually ever previous league, they'll keep playing or working until the paychecks stop clearing the bank. As for housing or leases, a lot of these teams do short-term housing themselves at a local hotel. Arena/indoor leagues have done that with regularity. Usually a straight trade for sponsorship to house x number of players during the season. The big problem with AAF is that their TV deals weren't for guaranteed cash. It appears they're operating on the old AFL type deal. Broadcaster covers their costs, and then any profit is split. Modern TV audiences being so sparse, live sports are big draws and usually hit that 18-39 male sweet spot advertisers love. And not being on a major network every week is goign to hurt them down the stretch. It just depends on their investors and what type of forecast they have for Year 2. And it's clear they're angling to get some involvement from the NFL. Or at least appear there's involvement. Corporate housing still needs cash and from these six games, AAF does not generate cash. Not just for the players but for the ancillary staff. THEY DON'T HAVE $$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Sykotyk said: Season tickets are almost sold out. So, aside from those comps set aside for players, staff, giveaways, sponsors, etc, it's going to be sold out all year I think. That is what happens when the team wins 7 games this past season after a grand total of 3 during Hue Jackson's tenure. Browns fans have hope. Whether or not Baker Mayfield can get better ala Pat Mahomes remains to be seen but if he can........he could be the "one" to solve the QB woes that they have had for the 20 years they have been back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, GDAWG said: I think that there is indirect involvement from the NFL, because if the NFL took over the AAF, there would be changes made, like moving Atlanta to Mercedes Benz Stadium and/or Arizona to Glendale. NFLN gave them an outlet to sell advertising. That is it. the NFL has basically f'ed them because it is a revenue split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Just now, GDAWG said: That is what happens when the team wins 7 games this past season after a grand total of 3 during Hue Jackson's tenure. Browns fans have hope. Whether or not Baker Mayfield can get better ala Pat Mahomes remains to be seen but if he can........he could be the "one" to solve the QB woes that they have had for the 20 years they have been back. The Browns also did away with most PSLs (only I think club level still has them). So, makes it much easier for fans to jump back on. I gave up my tickets a few years ago but reupped for this year because I wouldn't need to pay for another PSL.Otherwise I'd have been content to just get tickets to a game or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I wonder what the attendance for the championship game is going to be like. Sam Boyd Stadium holds 36,800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, Sykotyk said: That would depend on the employee or contractor. Initial startup was never going to be profitable. Hardly any business is profitable immediately. So, it's hard to say a player is going to run away from the league because they think the AAF is going to fail. As with virtually ever previous league, they'll keep playing or working until the paychecks stop clearing the bank. As for housing or leases, a lot of these teams do short-term housing themselves at a local hotel. Arena/indoor leagues have done that with regularity. Usually a straight trade for sponsorship to house x number of players during the season. The big problem with AAF is that their TV deals weren't for guaranteed cash. It appears they're operating on the old AFL type deal. Broadcaster covers their costs, and then any profit is split. Modern TV audiences being so sparse, live sports are big draws and usually hit that 18-39 male sweet spot advertisers love. And not being on a major network every week is goign to hurt them down the stretch. It just depends on their investors and what type of forecast they have for Year 2. And it's clear they're angling to get some involvement from the NFL. Or at least appear there's involvement. They're hoping to get money on the backend via their data and gambling technology similar to how MLB made out with MLB Advanced Media. The reason for the game on their app where you can pick the next play is for the possibility of being able to gamble on individual plays and drives in the future. I imagine it's why MGM Resorts International is one of their partners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, See Red said: They're hoping to get money on the backend via their data and gambling technology similar to how MLB made out with MLB Advanced Media. The reason for the game on their app where you can pick the next play is for the possibility of being able to gamble on individual plays and drives in the future. I imagine it's why MGM Resorts International is one of their partners. While AAF is partnered with MGM, the NFL has an agreement with Caesars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, See Red said: They're hoping to get money on the backend via their data and gambling technology similar to how MLB made out with MLB Advanced Media. The reason for the game on their app where you can pick the next play is for the possibility of being able to gamble on individual plays and drives in the future. I imagine it's why MGM Resorts International is one of their partners. So, I guess the question is how much is that worth, and how much money is being put behind it until that worth can be realized. Funding a football league for one year, seems to be very important. Considering how little advertising has gone on in some of these markets (and nationally for television) it would make sense their eggs are in that basket. But if that's the case their funding would have to be substantial because they're not like the UFL trying to tide themselves over until the big 'payday' on ticket sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Sykotyk said: So, I guess the question is how much is that worth, and how much money is being put behind it until that worth can be realized. Funding a football league for one year, seems to be very important. Considering how little advertising has gone on in some of these markets (and nationally for television) it would make sense their eggs are in that basket. But if that's the case their funding would have to be substantial because they're not like the UFL trying to tide themselves over until the big 'payday' on ticket sales. I don't know. Here's an article that may have more details for you. It's why a few people here have referred to the league as a Tech Company... because it more or less is, it's just using football to sell the technology. I'm hoping it at least buys the league a couple of years because I wonder how much of the trouble these new football leagues have is their lack of history and that there isn't any sort of real attachment to your team. Orlando's my local team but outside of wanting to see Spurrier succeed as a Florida fan, I wouldn't feel that much different about them than I do for any of the other teams. I also suspect the quality of play would be greatly improved by year two or three. Hopefully the league can bring some people in who can figure out how to get people to come out for the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 12 hours ago, See Red said: The league telling teams to play within the rules doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. The rules dictate the types of plays run, the central office is telling teams to figure it out because the resulting penalties make the game less watchable. I'm sure you're looking for an excuse to trash the league but this doesn't seem like it. I misunderstood, and wasn’t aware of the no-blitz rule. From the prior post, it seemed that he was trying to change the game on the fly, not asking teams to adhere to the rules. I was wrong, and withdraw the objection. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_tattoos Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 9 hours ago, mkg74 said: Oh really? Who’s worse? Hot damn. I’m interested in your reply or anybody else wants to chime in would be great too Buccaneers' current unis University of Arizona current unis Buffalo Bills previous set BYU's bib jerseys from the early 2000's Syracuse's current set every UFL uniform from 2009 Most of the stuff Oregon has worn after the Joey Harrington era unis Vikings previous set Most of the Kansas Jayhawks recent combinations Bengals current unis just to name a few I personally find worse than the Hotshots Hotter Than July > Thriller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Comet Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Commanders game is looking relatively full in the lower bowl. San Diego game should have plenty of people too (by plenty, I mean 20,000 or so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Yeah, San Antonio's attendance looks really good. The Commanders actually look mostly like a functional football team too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian in Boston Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 17 hours ago, mkg74 said: Easily the worst uniform in this league or any league ever. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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