2018 NBA Post Season

[truepg]

2 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

pretty sure most people believed neither team stood a real chance against The Warriors. 

 

The narrative was exactly that. I could go as far as pick different quotes from people saying that, if I wanted.

[Rockstar Matt]

3 hours ago, McCarthy said:

So the standard for Lebron James' greatness from what I can gather is: He has to win 9 straight conference championships, in the perceived tougher conference, without a good teammate, and then win every finals. Also if he beats the Celtics then clearly the Celtics weren't good to begin with, or they beat themselves.

 

I’ve never seen a player receive so many, “...yeah, but...” arguments as I have with LeBron. 

 

It’s kinda funny seeing the lengths people will go to attempt to diminish his greatness. 

[Red Wolf]

21 minutes ago, Rockstar Matt said:

 

I’ve never seen a player receive so many, “...yeah, but...” arguments as I have with LeBron. 

 

It’s kinda funny seeing the lengths people will go to attempt to diminish his greatness. 

If we had the message boards and twitter I bet we would have seen it plenty for past players like Jordan.

 

"Yeah, but he has multiple hall of famers on his team. He couldn't do it alone!"

 

"Yeah, but the Jordan rules."

 

"Yeah, but the clock in Space Jam clearly wasn't operating at normal speed or the Toon Squad would have definitely lost to the Monstars." 

[Unocal]

The basketball gods.... wow, talk about a cruel tease.

 

They set us up with BOS/HOU BOTH going up 3-2. Just ONE out of a possible 4 wins would have guaranteed new Finals blood.

 

But no- they once again reminded us that variety is not allowed in basketball. They set us up and then reminded us all that ONLY LEBRON AND THE WARRIORS CAN EVER HAVE HAPPINESS

 

What a cruel kick in the nuts after maybe the single most entertaining season I can recall in years.

 

ABC better hope casuals tune in because this matchup has zero zest for me. NONE.

 

I hate this matchup so much I can't even take joy against whoever loses because the same side will win AGAIN.

 

Wake me up when we get SOMETHING different.

[Unocal]

I would have rather seen the Penguins win a third straight Cup than sit through another joyless rerun of LeBron vs. Golden State.

[rams80]

6 hours ago, ozzyman314 said:

What are you talking about? the guy is making his 8th straight conference appearance you have any idea how absolute dominate that is? 

 

It's almost like he isn't as dominate as his accolades would have believe. 

like he's benefited from playing in a watered downed conference. 

 

1. DOMINANT

2.  "LeBron sucks because my team sucks worse than him each year for the last 8" has got to be a real soul flaying thing for a fan to say.  It's not a great look.

[Red Wolf]

Basketball is dead, my life is ruined, and there is no hope for any of us. 

 

Did I do it? 

[AstroCree]

It’s just an amazing coincidence that both the Rockets and Celtics forget how to shoot 3’s at Game 7. 

My interest in the NBA dwindled when LeBron decided to jump ship to Miami to build his super team and then I really lost interest when Durant joined the Warriors because he couldn’t beat them (what type of crap is that). This year I watched the least amount of NBA games I have ever seen. This isn’t fun to watch anymore. I just don’t see the interest in a sport that features the same people in the championship game, especially with the ones that took the easy road. 

 

Its truly amazing. People have been saying “the NBA is fixed” for years. Even before the Lakers-Kings fiasco and yet, millions of people still tune in. If it is fixed, then it’s obviously working.

[The_Admiral]

23 minutes ago, insert name said:

It’s just an amazing coincidence that both the Rockets and Celtics forget how to shoot 3’s at Game 7. 

I remember when one of the biggest criticisms of NCAA hoops was that it was just guys going back and forth bricking threes and that real basketball sophisticates appreciated the post play of the NBA. When you rebuild the league around low-percentage shots, you can't be surprised when games like these happen on tired legs, can you?

[crashcarson15]

5 hours ago, SabresRule7361 said:

The basketball gods.... wow, talk about a cruel tease.

 

They set us up with BOS/HOU BOTH going up 3-2. Just ONE out of a possible 4 wins would have guaranteed new Finals blood.

 

But no- they once again reminded us that variety is not allowed in basketball. They set us up and then reminded us all that ONLY LEBRON AND THE WARRIORS CAN EVER HAVE HAPPINESS

 

What a cruel kick in the nuts after maybe the single most entertaining season I can recall in years.

 

ABC better hope casuals tune in because this matchup has zero zest for me. NONE.

 

I hate this matchup so much I can't even take joy against whoever loses because the same side will win AGAIN.

 

Wake me up when we get SOMETHING different.

OK, we get it, you're not excited about a Cleveland/Golden State rematch in the Finals. You don't have to post the same thought over and over again in the thread.

 

If you're no longer interested in the NBA postseason, there's nothing that states you have to continue posting in the thread.

[crashcarson15]

9 hours ago, MBurmy said:

This is why the next time the NBA CBA gets renewed, Commish Silver had BETTER make the league's proposal include a strong push for parity (as in HARD, STRICT salary cap)...and if the NBPA won't agree to it, then just keep playing hardball.

 

(If a season gets cancelled, then so be it...one season lost is a small price to pay for the league as a whole being saved)

A hard cap would've prevented a Warriors situation, but does it really change much of anything when a team with Jeff Green as the second option just won Game 7 of the ECF?

 

The formula that's been used to win the vast majority of NBA titles is to either have one of the 3 or 4 best players in the world on your team or to have, like, a few of the best 15 or 20. A hard cap makes it a lot harder for the latter team to exist.

[Crabcake]

7 hours ago, Rockstar Matt said:

 

I’ve never seen a player receive so many, “...yeah, but...” arguments as I have with LeBron. 

 

It’s kinda funny seeing the lengths people will go to attempt to diminish his greatness. 

I was listening to sports radio a while ago and they made this same arguments, and I immediately thought of this thread. Look, hating a player and acknowledging his greatness are not mutually exclusive. I hate Tom Brady with a passion, and yet I recognize that he should probably the best quarterback of all time. Why can’t we just appreciate greatness when we see it? 

 

Also, let’s get one thing clear. @ozzyman314 - if LeBron pulls this Finals out of nowhere and shocks the world by beating this Warriors team with this Cavs team, the debate ends. Over. It’s done. Surely even you would have to acknowledge that accomplishment. 

[OnWis97]

19 minutes ago, Crabcake47 said:

I was listening to sports radio a while ago and they made this same arguments, and I immediately thought of this thread. Look, hating a player and acknowledging his greatness are not mutually exclusive. I hate Tom Brady with a passion, and yet I recognize that he should probably the best quarterback of all time. Why can’t we just appreciate greatness when we see it? 

 

Also, let’s get one thing clear. @ozzyman314 - if LeBron pulls this Finals out of nowhere and shocks the world by beating this Warriors team with this Cavs team, the debate ends. Over. It’s done. Surely even you would have to acknowledge that accomplishment. 

It's going to take a Golden State team plane crash for that to happen.  Or a couple bouts of food poisoning stemming from team meals.  There is simply no way Cleveland wins this series. 

 

Here's the funny thing: Everyone knows that and they know it because of how stacked the Warriors are and how un-stacked LeBron's supporting cast is.  And when we all say Golden State in either 4 or 5, it's not an indictment on LeBron.  But starting about a week after the Warriors hoist that trophy, general fan talk (and even some media talk) will essentially consider it a choke.  "He's 3-6 in Finals!"  I believe his legacy would have been better-served by losing to Boston.  In the moment, people would understand that he was carrying a bunch of stiffs on his back (particularly with Love out Game 7) and then it would be forgotten.  When  we count rings (don't get me started) we give guys a bigger break for losing in an earlier round than in the finals.  Had Jordan's Bulls sneaked in over the Pistons in 1990 and then lost the Finals, we wouldn't hear about "he never lost when he got there."  He'd be 6-1 in the Finals.  In no way, shape, or form is that actually worse...in fact it's slightly better.  But that's not how we think.

 

(and spare me the mocking of how I'm jumping through hoops to put LeBron ahead of Jordan.  I don't think LeBron is better than Jordan.  I just find it funny that people think 3-0 in the finals is better than 3-6).

 

But if it makes people happy:

LeBron has three titles, all with asterisks. Two on a super team and one because he asked the NBA to suspend a player and they did it for him. LeBron is a hall-of-famer, but nothing more. He's Karl Malone.

 

 

[The_Admiral]

25 minutes ago, Crabcake47 said:

Why can’t we just appreciate greatness when we see it?

 

Because sports are provincial and silly. We're not talking about the Hagia Sophia here.

[Sport]

9 hours ago, Rockstar Matt said:

 

I’ve never seen a player receive so many, “...yeah, but...” arguments as I have with LeBron. 

 

It’s kinda funny seeing the lengths people will go to attempt to diminish his greatness. 

 

It's very funny because the standards he's held to are absurd and unfair, and those standards are his own creation because of how good he is. If he was in the west and only made, let's say, 6 finals in 8 years the Ozzymans of the world would say "well he only made 6 finals in 8 years". The goalposts will always be moved for him. It's gotten to the point where other players are being held to the same stupid expectations as him, which only sets them up for embarrassment. I blame Skip Bayless for making a generation of idiots who think that's how you treat once-in-a-generation talents, like they have to meet some stupid, arbitrary made-up expectation or else they're not worthy of discussion. 

 

[Crabcake]

7 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

I blame Skip Bayless

 

[Wings]

LeBron is the greatest. Celtics lost. Get over it. Take a nap. 

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, Crabcake47 said:

Also, let’s get one thing clear. @ozzyman314 - if LeBron pulls this Finals out of nowhere and shocks the world by beating this Warriors team with this Cavs team, the debate ends. Over. It’s done. Surely even you would have to acknowledge that accomplishment. 

LeBron lead the Cavs to a NBA Championship after being down 3-1 to a Warriors team that broke the record for most wins in a season. 

 

That should have ended the debate, but here ozzyman is arguing LeBron’s greatness because he’s salty the Celtics aren’t as good. 

[OnWis97]

LeBron's Nine Trips to the Finals.  Green are years I think are feathers in his cap.  Red are potential indictments.  

• 2007 (CLE): Loss.  He dragged a nothing team there and lost to the freaking Spurs.  Feather in his cap.
• 2011 (MIA): Loss.  He did not show up like he should have. Biggest indictment on his career.
• 2012 (MIA): Win.  Superteam, but hey all we do is count rings, right?
• 2013 (MIA): Win. See above
• 2014 (MIA): Loss.  Superteam loses to Dynasty.  You could argue that the superteam and "best player" should find a way.  A bit of an indictment.
• 2015 (MIA): Loss.  The newly-dominant Warriors plus his banged up stars in Love in Irving made that absolutely un-winnable.  I think players on losing teams should win MVP in only the most rare of circumstances.  I'll go to my grave believing this is one.
• 2016 (CLE): Win against a more well-rounded team.
• 2017 (CLE): Loss against a team that won 73 games and then added a top-5 player.
• 2018 (CLE): Loss against that same team; he now does not have Kyrie.

But I guess most would just color the wins green and losses red.  The Kyrie trade ended up almost being a giveaway and they're back.

 

When comparing all-time greats, I do think that the red, particularly 2011 is all you really need to put him beneath Jordan.  It's not that 6-0 is the end all, but Jordan stepped up in pretty much every big opportunity.  And he never got to the biggest stage and laid an egg.  

 

A question is whether LeBron ranks above Kobe.  And a lot of people think so despite the 5-3 ring count.  That's harder to say.  Michael Jordan was pretty much the Babe Ruth of my generation.  Kobe was also great and also seemed to step up when it mattered. So it's sort of LeBron's history of carrying teams on his back vs. Kobe's history of playing for better teams but always coming up big (I recall one Western Conference finals game 7 in which Kobe had an off game but the team pulled it out; I wanna say it was in the 2008-2010 timeframe).

Truth be told, I am surprised that a lot of people rank LeBron over Kobe because of 1) ring count, 2) LA, 3) Kobe is generally more well-liked than LeBron, 4) two franchise moves vs. 0.  I like LeBron A LOT more than I like Kobe but I'm not even sure who to rank higher.  Day-to-day, I think LeBron is more talented, but I prefer Kobe taking that last shot (even though there are some stats that sort of belie this).

[MJWalker45]

3 hours ago, insert name said:

It’s just an amazing coincidence that both the Rockets and Celtics forget how to shoot 3’s at Game 7. 

My interest in the NBA dwindled when LeBron decided to jump ship to Miami to build his super team and then I really lost interest when Durant joined the Warriors because he couldn’t beat them (what type of crap is that). This year I watched the least amount of NBA games I have ever seen. This isn’t fun to watch anymore. I just don’t see the interest in a sport that features the same people in the championship game, especially with the ones that took the easy road. 

 

Its truly amazing. People have been saying “the NBA is fixed” for years. Even before the Lakers-Kings fiasco and yet, millions of people still tune in. If it is fixed, then it’s obviously working.

Houston also forgot if you're right next to the basket you're allowed to shoot at it still. Too many times Harden did the last second behind he back pass to someone who expected him to go to the hoop. And even when the Rockets seemingly had an easy line to the basket they'd kick it back outside when the Warriors stepped towards that player. They left at least 10 points off the board because they seemed to think they were only allowed to shoot 3's.