College Football 2018-19: Santa Clara is that a way.

[MJWalker45]

2 hours ago, DScruggy729 said:

I also find this to be ridiculous. Remember when JT Barrett got injured for Ohio State? Yeah his backup did fine, only beat Alabama and won a national title. We don’t know how good UCF’s backup is, it’s not fair to them to exclude them just because their starting QB is out. 

 

2 hours ago, DScruggy729 said:

With conference championships we already effectively have quarterfinal games set up (At least in theory, it only really applies this season to the SEC). 

14 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I don't think college football is better with three of Florida, Kentucky, LSU, Penn State, Syracuse, Texas, Washington State and West Virginia making a playoff, nor do I think it's better with a Michigan/Washington first-round game. . . . it's highly unlikely to see a situation within the current structure where there are more than six teams that can truly have a claim that they should play for a national championship.

@DScruggy729Sorry to quote you here twice but it's also important o remember that Ohio State's loss was early against a Virginia Tech team that was expected to do great things then collapsed under their own weight. Had the Big XII agreed that Baylor was league champ instead of splitting it between Baylor and TCU then Baylor would have gotten in. The domination of Wisconsin was additional fuel to the fire. In addition, name brand wins out over records unfortunately. That came as a result of Michigan State getting rolled in 2015 after beating Ohio State. Ohio State was the better team but they weren't in that title game and I think you saw the committee and when 2016 and 2017 rolled around the committee went away from conference titles as a deciding factor when picking Ohio State in 2016 and Alabama in 2017. 

@crashcarson15 Regarding the 3 loss teams, it happens in other divisions so I don't see why there would be complaints about it occurring in the FBS playoffs. Granted a team like James Madison has two losses to FBS teams so they treat those differently than Washington losing to 7-5 Auburn. Incarnate Word is 6-5 and earned their way in by winning the conference. If northwestern wins on Saturday though, they'll most likely be in the Rose Bowl and Ohio State will be in the Citrus with Michigan jumping over them for the other New Year's Six game. 

 

 

[Red Wolf]

3 hours ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

That's a risk UCF faces with any P5 team they face in a big bowl game, though. It's not a Florida-centric issue. Central Florida isn't expected to be the best team in the state of Florida; them being the best team says more about how poor the Florida/Florida State/Miami collective is right now, with all due respect; maybe down the road UCF will have successfully turned it into a Big Four instead of a Big Three. In any case, this just feels like the kind of deal where Florida has nothing to gain but plenty to lose. Put another way - Florida fans won't exactly be glorifying things if they beat Central Florida in a bowl game; we've had bigger wins before, and hopefully will have bigger wins in the future. But there's every chance that, due to opponent, prestige, and circumstances, that Central Florida beating Florida would be the biggest win in their program's history, and, again, I really want nothing to do with that.

Oh boy, my favorite argument. I've heard this thousands of times from Arkansas fans on why they refuse to play Arkansas State or any other in-state teams. Florida losing to UCF would be far less devastating than losing to Georgia Southern just like it's more embarrassing for Arkansas to lose to ULM than Arkansas State.

 

Arkansas State actually lost to Central Arkansas back in 2016, and though it sucked ass, everybody got over it because it's not that big of a deal after the next season begins. Hell, Arkansas State was receiving preseason top 25 votes (still don't understand why, but hey) this season while UCA went 6-5 in the FCS and embarrassed the state by being the only Arkansas team to play Tulsa this year and lose. Our fans are more annoyed with failing to make the conference championship game than worrying about that time UCA beat us.

 

Point is, stop being a bunch of wusses and just play the game.

[See Red]

19 minutes ago, Red Wolf said:

Oh boy, my favorite argument. I've heard this thousands of times from Arkansas fans on why they refuse to play Arkansas State or any other in-state teams. Florida losing to UCF would be far less devastating than losing to Georgia Southern just like it's more embarrassing for Arkansas to lose to ULM than Arkansas State.

 

Arkansas State actually lost to Central Arkansas back in 2016, and though it sucked ass, everybody got over it because it's not that big of a deal after the next season begins. Hell, Arkansas State was receiving preseason top 25 votes (still don't understand why, but hey) this season while UCA went 6-5 in the FCS and embarrassed the state by being the only Arkansas team to play Tulsa this year and lose. Our fans are more annoyed with failing to make the conference championship game than worrying about that time UCA beat us.

 

Point is, stop being a bunch of wusses and just play the game.

 

It's worth noting that, Florida, the ones you're referring to being a bunch of wussies who should just play the game has scheduled a three game series with USF (including one in Tampa), a program that is on UCF's level.

 

UCF could certainly schedule something similar with cash-strapped Miami who has played on the road in stranger places than Orlando.

 

Of the two programs, Florida isn't the one with a hangup when it comes to schedule good programs out of conference (Michigan last year, Miami next year plus FSU every year)

[crashcarson15]

2 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

@crashcarson15 Regarding the 3 loss teams, it happens in other divisions so I don't see why there would be complaints about it occurring in the FBS playoffs.

Because the entire culture built around college football is that every game matters, and developing a world where 9-3 teams regularly make the playoff absolutely kills that.

 

The Kick Six? Cool, but both Alabama and Auburn would've been comfortably in the field anyway. The Miracle on Techwood Drive? 2015 FSU is making the playoff anyway. The national title ramifications are what made both of those epic moments.

 

I wouldn't have cared about Ohio State/Michigan on Saturday if I knew both teams were going to the playoff. Alabama/Georgia would be a ho-hum game this week, knowing that both teams would be in the field anyway.

 

Three- and four-loss teams in the FCS playoffs is relevant and required to a degree because, well, it's different. FCS football doesn't depend on the appeal to neutral fans, and teams in FCS aren't well-connected in the way that teams in FBS are.

 

A significant amount of my interest in the sport from September through November goes away if none of it really matters anyway.

[WJMorris3]

5 hours ago, crashcarson15 said:

It's just one source, but the Sagarin ratings peg Notre Dame's SOS as 44th toughest in the nation. Alabama's is currently 55th, Clemson's is currently 48th, Ohio State's is 43rd and Oklahoma's is 37th. Neither Clemson or Ohio State should see materially huge SOS jumps this week.

 

Notre Dame has played a schedule that is more or less on par with all other P5 contenders this season, as they typically do. In fact, this is the weakest ND schedule of Brian Kelly's tenure, per Sagarin, and it still stacks up with the SOS faced by other contenders.

 

BTW: ND's 2017 regular season SOS was ranked 2nd by Sagarin.

 

This idea that ND has a materially easier path to the playoff is a complete myth.

Unfortunately, they also don't play this weekend. If Ohio State and Oklahoma both win, I could see them both getting in and ND not as ND isn't a conference champ and Ohio State and Oklahoma both have 12 wins, just like Notre Dame. And if that happens, so be it. It's a fair conclusion.

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, willmorris said:

Unfortunately, they also don't play this weekend. If Ohio State and Oklahoma both win, I could see them both getting in and ND not as ND isn't a conference champ and Ohio State and Oklahoma both have 12 wins, just like Notre Dame. And if that happens, so be it. It's a fair conclusion.

Notre Dame is in unless both teams whoop their opposition worse than Ohio State did in 2014. I can't see that happening.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, crashcarson15 said:

A significant amount of my interest in the sport from September through November goes away if none of it really matters anyway.

 

1. On the other hand, if a team starts out with a couple of rough losses early on, then "none of it really matters anyway" even though they might finish as the best-playing team, because they've been eliminated in September.

 

2.  People seem to keep their interest in NFL even though 3/8 of the league makes the post season.  It's "different" than college, but I'd think it'd be harder to keep people interested in NFL since the cost to be a fan is so much more than it is for college, and allegiances for college teams seem to be deeper than for pros.  It can't all be about gambling, right?

 

3.  College football is so stacked against the players that it's almost not even worth bringing up things that aren't fair, because none of it is fair.  At least give the deserving ones a chance to play for a championship.  As it stands, you could easily be the best team and not make the playoff, or at least be in the debate and not have a chance to settle it on the field.  Or you could be a team that hasn't lost in more than 2 seasons and not even be considered.  That ain't right.

 

As much as these things make you a fan, they prevent some others from becoming one, because while you say you want games that matter, the reality is that far fewer matter under the current system than would if the playoff field was larger.

[Kramerica Industries]

4 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

Point is, stop being a bunch of wusses and just play the game.

 

I mean, it's not my decision to make. If Florida and Central Florida get paired in a bowl game, so be it. Go Gators. I'm just saying there's several scenarios I'd rather prefer. Frankly, it's not terribly likely to happen at this point, but I would totally be in favor of a chaos scenario that lifts UCF into the playoff field. It won't happen because the committee is just  ty enough to punish a team for their QB having the lower half of their leg twisted 90 degrees sideways, but if Oklahoma and Ohio State both lost (the former could happen; the latter simply won't and Maryland not winning against the Bucks was what sunk UCF's battleship but I digress), then there's not a single one-loss team out there to choose from. You have the three undefeateds and then...who? Which two-loss team would you say has a more deserving shout than Central Florida at that point?

 

Again, won't happen because the bowl committee and the NCAA but, even if the critic's favorite response is "they would get hammered by Alabama/Clemson", well, that would make them different from virtually everyone else in the country...how, exactly? Because I don't remember a single team keeping themselves within 30 points of Alabama in any game this season so if UCF faced Alabama and lost by 30+, that still makes them no different than the other 12 teams Alabama played this season. 

[WJMorris3]

5 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

Notre Dame is in unless both teams whoop their opposition worse than Ohio State did in 2014. I can't see that happening.

I can't see the committee taking a team that didn't win a conference title over a one-loss conference champ.

[dfwabel]

15 minutes ago, willmorris said:

I can't see the committee taking a team that didn't win a conference title over a one-loss conference champ.

That team didn't play a FCS opponent like whomever the SEC champion will be.

 

Plus, Notre Dame is one of the 11 which run the playoff. It's the ten FBS conference commissioners plus ND AD, Jack Swarbrick who form the Management Committee and ND President, Rev. John Jenkins, is one of the 11 on the Board of Managers. They possess 1/11th of the company.

[WJMorris3]

10 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

That team didn't play a FCS opponent like whomever the SEC champion will be.

 

Plus, Notre Dame is one of the 11 which run the playoff. It's the ten FBS conference commissioners plus ND AD, Jack Swarbrick who form the Management Committee and ND President, Rev. John Jenkins, is one of the 11 on the Board of Managers. They possess 1/11th of the company.

They played Navy and Ball State, which is just as bad. Also, last I checked, FSU, USC, and VT were all junk. You need to schedule better if you want in.

[FiddySicks]

I’m actually with willmorris (sort of) and have always felt that Notre Dame should be ineligible for playoff contention until they join a conference. The pass that they get has never made much sense to me. I get it in the days of Knute Rockne when they were the only team in the country worth anything, but at this point it seems like an unnecessary advantage granted to them just because they’re old and used to be really good. Outside of a few seasons where they were propped up by a weak schedule (sorry, even 2012), they haven’t really been contenders in nearly three decades. Since the turn of the century, they have one single win vs a top 5 opponent. ONE. They’re not even top 5 in revenue anymore. Why should they continue to get a pass? They’ve done absolutely nothing to merit that. 

[Unocal]

2 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

I’m actually with willmorris (sort of) and have always felt that Notre Dame should be ineligible for playoff contention until they join a conference. The pass that they get has never made much sense to me. I get it in the days of Knute Rockne when they were the only team in the country worth anything, but at this point it seems like an unnecessary advantage granted to them just because they’re old and used to be really good. Outside of a few seasons where they were propped up by a weak schedule (sorry, even 2012), they haven’t really been contenders in nearly three decades. Since the turn of the century, they have one single win vs a top 5 opponent. ONE. They’re not even top 5 in revenue anymore. Why should they continue to get a pass? They’ve done absolutely nothing to merit that. 

 

Because they don’t schedule cupcakes (COUGH THE CITADEL COUGH) and don’t load up their schedule with soft homecoming teams all the time.

[Unocal]

If Georgia, Oklahoma, and Clemson all win Saturday..... Bama should be OUT of the playoff.

[Kramerica Industries]

8 hours ago, willmorris said:

They played Navy and Ball State, which is just as bad. Also, last I checked, FSU, USC, and VT were all junk. You need to schedule better if you want in.

 

How many years in advance were those Florida State and Virginia Tech games scheduled? Va Tech hasn't been quite at the levels they were at in the '90s and '00s but Florida State had been one of the very best teams in the country up until these past couple seasons. You can't penalize Notre Dame when, at the time the games were scheduled, they had no reason to think those teams would have such awful seasons.

 

It's one of the reasons why having these games scheduled so far in advance in college football in general is so ridiculous; great, [Team X] and [Team Y] have agreed to a home-and-home series with each other, with the games taking place in (gets eyeglasses)...five years and eight years time. In other words, from the time these games are announced, the players who will be taking the leading roles are currently, at best, sophomores in high school and it might be middle schoolers by the time the next game rolls around. To say nothing about potential coaching staff and even administrative changes. My understanding is Va Tech ended up playing a game away to effin' Old Dominion this year (and lost; jeezus) because their previous AD had a good relationship with Old Dominion's AD. Brilliant. Really did the school a whole lot of good by the time the game was actually set to be played, huh?

 

Notre Dame, to their credit, actually tries to give themselves a decently tough schedule year-in/year-out. Stanford, USC, five games against the ACC (which, I know, sucked this year; it happens), Michigan. Maybe they had some...no, not gonna make that pun...perhaps they benefited from fortune in that some of those teams;  , all those teams ended up being subpar by their standards, but they couldn't anticipate that would happen. Notre Dame may not have played a schedule that played out as difficult, but they also didn't face 6-6 Purdue and lose by 30 points, either. Notre Dame is going to be in the field. I think Clemson will handle them quite easily, but they'll be in the field ultimately. 

[crashcarson15]

5 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Outside of a few seasons where they were propped up by a weak schedule (sorry, even 2012), they haven’t really been contenders in nearly three decades.

2012 Notre Dame had wins over the teams that finished Nos. 6, 11 and 18 in the final BCS rankings, but sure, let's keep doing this revisionist history about 2012 because they got blasted by a team that was significantly better than everyone else outside the SEC.

 

Also, ask the Big XII (or 2015 Notre Dame, had they beaten Stanford) if it's such a huge advantage to not play a conference championship game. Broadly, ND makes it harder on themselves by remaining an independent if they don't go undefeated. 

[DS729]

Notre Dame is in. They have as many quality wins as Oklahoma, and didn’t get blown out by a 6 win Purdue team. Notre Dame is locked in regardless of the scenario, their schedule had 5 teams that were ranked in the preseason polls, it’s not their fault three of them had their worst seasons in recent history.  With 1 loss I could see an argument to exclude them, but they are a lock as an unbeaten. 

[Red Wolf]

14 hours ago, willmorris said:

They played Navy and Ball State, which is just as bad. Also, last I checked, FSU, USC, and VT were all junk. You need to schedule better if you want in.

Florida State, USC, and Virginia Tech were all preseason top 25 teams this season, so it's not like Notre Dame knew that all three of those teams were potentially sitting out the bowl season. Really, it's just another reason to have the playoff expanded.

[MJWalker45]

21 hours ago, crashcarson15 said:

I wouldn't have cared about Ohio State/Michigan on Saturday if I knew both teams were going to the playoff. Alabama/Georgia would be a ho-hum game this week, knowing that both teams would be in the field anyway.

I think this perfectly states what most TV producers are afraid of. You'll get people who watch out of fascination, like when Cincinnati played UCF, but only if that game is the lone good game in a sea of impending blowouts.  

 

4 hours ago, crashcarson15 said:

2012 Notre Dame had wins over the teams that finished Nos. 6, 11 and 18 in the final BCS rankings, but sure, let's keep doing this revisionist history about 2012 because they got blasted by a team that was significantly better than everyone else outside the SEC.

I'm always ambivalent about that game. That was the year Ohio State had a perfect season but was banned from bowls. I feel they would have been playing instead of Alabama and that game would have been tighter and more entertaining. I think a lot of off the field issues hurt UND too and that played a bigger role in how the game went then people will admit.

[shstpt1]

I think if the P5 conference champs, 1 G5, 2 At-large get into the playoffs making it a 8 team playoff, the regular season still means something. You know that your goal at the beginning of the season is to win games to get to your conference championship. Then you know you have to win your conference championship. Regular season also still matters for seeding of the playoffs. Say a 1 loss team gets in with an at large bid, and there is a 3 loss P5 team, the at large would be a higer seed. This still places importance on the regular season games, Michigan/Ohio State is still an intriguing game, because it serves as a play-off to the conference championship, where the winner of that game gets into the field of 8.

 

As it is now there are about 8 teams that truly can play for a national championship, and they will be the same 8 teams for a long time due to financial resources and ability to recruit due to those resources.