MLB: The Defunct Saga - Bibliography Added

[coco1997]

The full lime green Dragonflies set definitely feels more specifically "Tampa Bay" than it does Montreal, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't prefer it to the light blue version. 

 

And huh, I'd completely forgotten that I suggested the Washington Pandas at one point, but I'm so glad you didn't! This is a really fun concept. (Also, a funny coincidence that I proposed the Dragonflies in green and you followed them up with another green prominent team.) I will say, I can't help but wonder how great a "Pandas" script would look in the style of the early '70s Padres script. 

 

I really dig that recolored Vegas A's concept, too. The Volt green works surprisingly well!

[CFBJunkie]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:01 PM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! I also hate the idea, but I think it can look good.

 

 

Thanks! Vegas Gold is ok, but Kelly Green doesn't go as well with Vegas Gold.

 

 

Ah well, onto the final serious A's concept.

 

PORTLAND ATHLETICS – Days of Pine and Roses

 

The other popular A’s relocation destination, Portland, has been in the conversation almost as long as Las Vegas. Journalists first brought up the City of Roses as potential destination early as 1998. Allegedly, two groups from the city met with Schott, Hoffman, and Team President Sandy Alderson. According to Steve Kettman of The San Francisco Chronicle,

 

 

 

However, Portland would receive only passing mentions as a relocation destination through the late-‘90s and early-‘00s. Like Las Vegas and San Jose (and even Sacramento and Dublin, CA), Portland would be brought up whenever the A’s had to deal with lease issues or rumors of sales (like in 1999 and 2001). Portland’s baseball-interested parties would focus on the Expos through much of 2003 and 2004, but the A’s still remained part of the conversation. After it was clear Portland and Las Vegas wouldn’t get the Expos, the Athletics were still a name thrown around in passing.²

 

This passing interest would continue through Schott/Hoffman’s sale of the franchise to Fisher/Wolff, with a flare-up during the Marlins’ flirtation with Portland. It never seemed like the A’s would commit to Portland or make a big display of interest, but rather that it was an extended option like Las Vegas or Sacramento.³

 

Things would remain relatively quiet until the emergence of the Portland Diamond Project in 2018, which has hyped up a waterfront stadium for the city. Built on the former site of Terminal 2 (a rarely-used industrial site), it is relatively distant from Portland’s light rail infrastructure. However, the group has promised a potential extension of the streetcar system to the site. This group, led by former Nike executive Craig Cheek (with investors like Seattle Seahawks QB Russell Wilson and his wife, Grammy-winning singer Ciara Wilson), has even released renderings of the intended site! Of course, this would require extensive bureaucratic work before an environmental impact report and a zoning of the site could begin.⁴

 

 

 

Once the A’s received permission from MLB to explore potential relocation destinations in mid-May 2021, Portland came up immediately as a landing spot. However, Athletics Team President Dave Kaval made it clear on May 25 that there were no Portland visits planned. It would seem that this particular relocation scheme turned into vaporware.⁵

 

Las Vegas seems to be the more viable option for the Athletics at the moment, as there is more confidence in the Las Vegas efforts for the A’s than in Portland Diamond Project. Given the relatively rapid pace of construction for the Raiders’ stadium in Las Vegas, it is reasonable. Still, Portland is a larger market (21^st, compared to 40^th for Las Vegas), has a strong baseball tradition (ever see The Battered Bastards of Baseball), and would give the Mariners a much-needed break with their travel schedule. Of course, Portland also chose the MLS Timbers over maintaining the AAA Beavers (and the Timbers rival, if not surpass, the Trail Blazers in terms of civic popularity). It would seem that such experiences have colored the market as potentially unfavorable for the Athletics.⁶

 

TL;DR: Portland boosters as the PI, the A’s as Sideshow Bob - 

 

 

When it comes to what the Portland Diamond Project would do with the Athletics, Craig Cheek hinted that the group might rebrand the team “to keep the name in Oakland.” This is incredibly stupid, given that the Athletics brand has survived two relocations and can be ported almost anywhere (the A’s are basically the OG Doom of baseball teams). Also, it's highly unlikely that Oakland would ever get another team (this isn't Seattle NBA or Winnipeg NHL). If the team were to rebrand, see my Portland Stags design. But here, let’s assume that the Athletics wouldn’t rebrand.⁷

 

The crest includes a heraldic rose standard (from Wikimedia Commons) and the two insignias (the P from the Philadelphia Athletics concepts), with the elephant on top. The elephant’s saddle features the Northwestern Stripe of the socks. Forest Green appears in this concept, due to the forested nature of the area and the Timbers’ color scheme.

 

 

The uniforms feature placket trim in a green/yellow-gold/green pattern and a “Portland” cursive script. Gold front numbers appear again, as I like that added touch of the secondary color.

 

 

Alternates include yellow-gold and green jerseys, with the “Portland” script on the green top.

 

 

The second set of alternates is a Portland Beavers-style uniform for the A’s, alongside a Kelly Green-styled vest. That throws back to the Kansas City-Oakland transitional phrase.

 

 

The primary jacket features the “Athletics” cursive wordmark, while a standard Kelly Green design appears for the throwback.

 

 

Given their pre-existing color scheme, the A’s would have to change little for adapting to Portland. It was also an opportunity to make the Athletics more colorful with added yellow. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, the misadventure of Stu.

 

¹ Steve Kettmann, “Angelos’ Bold Idea Could Put A’s on Go,” San Francisco Chronicle, April 24, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News.

 

² John Canzano, “City Is Acting Anything but Major League,” Oregonian, The, May 21, 2004, sec. Sports, Access World News; John Hunt, “Can You Say Portland Twins, A’s or Marlins?,” Oregonian, The, September 14, 2003, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Portland, Las Vegas Pass on Trip to Houston,” Oregonian, The, July 11, 2004, sec. Sports, Access World News; C.W. Nevius, “Rumors of Move Play Right into A’s Hands,” San Francisco Chronicle, August 14, 2001, sec. Sports, Access World News; Gary Peterson, “Apathy Abounds for Infirm A’s,” Contra Costa Times, July 31, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Gary Peterson, “Baseball Lords Foil Deal, Offer No Explanation,” Contra Costa Times, September 16, 1999, sec. Sports, Access World News; Ray Ratto, “Rumors Have A’s All over the Map,” San Francisco Chronicle, June 10, 2001, sec. Sports, Access World News; Times Staff, “Where Could A’s Decide to Go? - Santa Clara Is One Site That Has Been Mentioned a Lot Lately,” Contra Costa Times, August 2, 2001, sec. New, Access World News.

 

³ Greg Beacham, “New Owners Wolff, Fisher Could Change the Ballgame in Oakland,” Associated Press Archive, April 1, 2005, Access World News, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=AWNB&docref=news/109840D6DCE23A41; John Hunt, “Marlins to Test Portland Waters,” Oregonian, The, January 7, 2006, sec. Sports, Access World News; John Hunt, “Portland’s Prospects Fading for MLB Team,” Oregonian, The, April 16, 2006, sec. Sports; Ray Ratto, “Time to Call A’s Owner for Crying Wolf on Stadium,” San Francisco Chronicle (CA), October 24, 2007, Access World News; Paul T. Rosynsky, “Wolff: A’s Ballpark Already in Works,” Oakland Tribune, The, March 12, 2005, sec. Tri-Valley, Access World News, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=AWNB&docref=news/108CD3AD15D1C5B6; John Shea, “Thanks for the Memories Owner Schott Finished Strong after Weak Start,” San Francisco Chronicle, April 3, 2005, sec. On Baseball, Access World News; Jim Herron Zamora, “Oakland A’s Looking at Greener Pastures, near and Far,” San Francisco Chronicle, February 12, 2005, sec. Bay Area, Access World News.

 

⁴ Fox 12 Staff, “Portland Diamond Project Signs ‘Agreement in Principle’ for Baseball Stadium on Port Property,” KPTV.com, November 29, 2018, 12, https://www.kptv.com/news/portland-diamond-project-signs-agreement-in-principle-for-baseball-stadium-on-port-property/article_48b167aa-f415-11e8-b90a-db81ce02da82.html; Andrew Greif, “Baseball Backers in It for Long Haul Group Says It’s Been Encouraged by Feedback from Major League Officials,” Oregonian, The, May 4, 2018, sec. B, Access World News; Elliot Njus, “Baseball Group Gets Six-Month Extension on Site Baseball Portland Diamond Project: Group Buys Time to Study Cargo Terminal,” Oregonian, The, May 29, 2019, sec. A, Access World News.

 

⁵ Joe Freeman, “A’s Approved to Explore Relocation Options Portland Is a Potential Destination for the Team,” Oregonian, The, May 12, 2021, sec. B, Access World News; Matt Kawahara, “A’s President Dave Kaval Says No Relocation Visit Planned to Portland,” San Francisco Chronicle, May 26, 2021, https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/athletics/article/A-s-president-Kaval-says-no-relocation-visit-16203025.php.

 

⁶ Freeman, “A’s Approved to Explore Relocation Options Portland Is a Potential Destination for the Team.”

 

⁷ nomorehiatusplz, “Portland Diamond Project Founder Craig Cheek Gave Some Information in an Interview,” Reddit Post, R/Baseball, March 13, 2019, www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/b0fqa8/portland_diamond_project_founder_craig_cheek_gave/.

 

I can easily see Portland just going for a team just to use this concept. 

On 12/4/2021 at 12:02 AM, SFGiants58 said:

TAMPA BAY-MONTRÉAL DRAGONFLIES/LIBELLULES - Flight of the Bumblers

 

Of course, the Tampa Bay Sweepstakes would have a gosh-dang sequel. In the 20+ years of the Rays’ existence, the team only hit 2 million fans in their first year. Attendance dropped like a rock after that, from 2.5 million in 1998 to 1.5 million in 1999. Their highest total after that was in 2009, with 1,874,962 fans (9^th of 14), while the AL pennant-winning 2008 team had 1,811,986 fans (11^th of 14 AL teams).¹ The Trop’s location and ugliness made the stadium an undesirable destination in St. Petersburg, too far from the population centers of the area. Even when they were competing at the top of the AL and in the World Series, the team still couldn’t draw. Again, we have Vince “makes Mr. Krabs look spendy” Naimoli to thank for the awful lease. It wasn’t just awful for the team, but also the city.² Look at this lease agreement:

 

 

That’s awful for any club and city.

 

Owner Stu Sternberg floated numerous 100% publicly-funded plans, all of which died/got dumped on ice. After some kvetching over the Ybor City (a neighborhood in Tampa) stadium plan, Stu pulled out his ultimate technique in 2019. He’d been meeting with Steven Bronfman, the son of the Montréal Expos’ original owner to hatch a plan. Since the Rays couldn’t move outright until the lease on The Trop is over (2027), the club would request two small open-air stadiums: one in the Tampa Bay Area and one in Montréal.⁴ Here’s how the proposal works:

• The Rays would play the first few months of the season in the Tampa Bay Area, before jetting off to Montréal in June/July. 
• Playoff appearances would alternate between the two locations.
• The total cost of the two small, sub 30k venues would be less than a retractable/fixed roof stadium in Tampa or St. Petersburg ($1 billion+)
• Stephen Bronfman would become a minority owner of the club
• Later developments included the revival of a Ybor City site for the smaller Tampa Bay venue⁵

This plan went over poorly after it leaked on June 20th, 2019. Sternberg gave a rushed press conference about the plan two days later, which only exacerbated the tensions.⁶

 

 

 

The reaction within the building and community was, at times, disapproving.⁷

 

 

 

Since the introductory press conference, the whole prospect has lurked under the Rays’ operational strategies. Players voiced decidedly mixed reactions about the proposal, but repeated oft-repeated statements by former players about The Trop’s lack of fan support. Stephen Bronfman attended a Rays playoff game in 2019 (from the owners box), Commissioner Manfred announced his/the owners’ support for the plan in February 2020. The pandemic obviously delayed serious discussion of the split-cities idea until 2021.⁸

 

The 2021 developments occurred in a rather linear fashion, starting in May 2021 with the re-emphasis of an Ybor City site for an open-air stadium. Talks also resumed with Tampa Mayor Jane Castor, while Montréal Mayor Valérie Plante repeated her stance of no public funds for a Montréal venue (given Stu’s repeated insistence on public funds, a bad sign). The team did consider putting out a pro-Montréal sign at The Trop during the 2021 Postseason, but fan backlash caused a withdrawal of the offending sign. By November 2021, rumors emerged that Stu and the Seminole Tribe were gearing up to contribute a majority sum for a new Ybor City stadium. These rumors also included speculation that Stu was ready to drop the split-city plan, focusing all of his efforts on remaining in the Tampa Bay area.⁹

 

However, a more important development occurred in 2021. The minority owners of the Rays sued Stu Sternberg, claiming that he violated his contract with St. Petersburg by negotiation with Stephen Bronfman and considering him for minority ownership. This could potentially result in Stu losing his controlling partnership in the Rays, producing the most embarrassing owner exit since Jerry Richardson. Rumors also exist that the suit will move into a jury trial and that Stu had embezzled $500 million from MLB’s revenue sharing program. While it is unlikely to result in Stu’s exit, it is still a shameful capper on the split-city plan and Sternberg’s ownership of the Rays.¹⁰

 

TL;DR: James May as Stu Sternberg -

 

 

Of course, this plan is stupid. Like, of all the stuff I’ve covered, the only plan that beats it is the Horneytown Twins. Asking players to split time in two separate countries with 40 games in each location will be costly, especially from a tax perspective. There’s also the issue of fan engagement. Most people in the Tampa Bay Area would see it as a sloppy temporary solution to move the team to Montréal, while Montréalers would be frustrated in not getting a full team back. Instead, they’ll get screwed by MLB again (albeit for only a few years). Likewise, there’s the possibility of taxpayers in both locations paying for ultimately temporary venues, both open-air. While open-air isn’t a big problem in Montréal (outside of the first and last months of the season), it’d be brutal in the swapassery of Tampa. This plan was blatant blackmail for the Tampa Bay Area and it seems to have worked.

 

However, St. Petersburg building The Trop on speculation (and without a referendum) to “one up” Tampa is still the stupidest thing to happen in the series, as it screwed over the market (with help from ownership). I find it fitting that St. Petersburg will lose its team no matter what happens, a team that should’ve been Tampa’s from day one. That stupid civic rivalry doomed Tampa Bay MLB.

 

The best analogy I can think of is that Tampa Bay MLB/The Trop is the cabriolet minivan from Top Gear. 

 

 

They’re a mangled mess birthed from misguided and short-sighted ideas, subjected to constant pain and alienating features (The Trop’s location, letting a fragile soft top just hang off the van’s back), and ultimately doomed to a messy end. The split-city plan is the equivalent of the minivan going into the car wash - a prelude to the end of the freak show. 

 

Of course, what should this team name even be? At a later advertisement for the plan in November 2021, team president Brian Auld took a detractor suggestion and implied that Tampa Bay-Montréal Dragonflies would be a good idea. They migrate from Canada to Florida and it’d be a unique team name in Big Four sports. So, let’s run with Dragonflies.¹¹

 

Since language laws are still an issue in Montréal, the team will be the Libellules when they play their games there. The jerseys would simply change for each stint at their home, a degree of modularity. The colors are the Rays’ navy and light blue, with a gradient of royal blue/dark turquoise/light teal/yellow. This mimics the color of a dragonfly (based on this image) while also being an update of the ’98 Rays’ gradient set.

 

 

 

The uniforms remain simple, to emphasize the gradient colors in the wordmarks and logos. I opted against a “Dragonflies” wordmark, because it was too long in the Insignia font (an appropriately modern font, despite being very '90s).

 

 

 

The alternates include both powder and navy jerseys.

 

 

 

The second set of alternates are for exhibition purposes, where both locations need acknowledgement. These include a navy top and a grey set, with “TB” and “M” on each side of the chest.

 

 

The jackets feature the gradient on the sleeves and the dragonfly on the back.

 

 

Ultimately, had the split-city plan been implemented, the end goal would be for Montréal to be the sole location by 2028 (the year after The Trop’s odious lease ends). With no Tampa Bay locals to worry about, the team could give the Montréal fans what they want. Le retour des les Expos!

 

 

Nobody really wins in this stupid plan, except fans of gradients. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, a different name for one of the potential DC teams.

 

¹ “Tampa Bay Rays Attendance, Stadiums, and Park Factors,” Baseball-Reference.com, accessed December 3, 2021, https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TBD/attend.shtml.

 

² Michael Lortz, “The Importance of the 30-Minute Population Radius on MLB Attendance,” Community Blog (blog), February 3, 2015, https://community.fangraphs.com/the-importance-of-the-30-minute-population-radius-on-mlb-attendance/; Noah Pransky, “Did Rays’ Stu Sternberg Violate His Contract with St. Petersburg?,” Florida Politics - Campaigns & Elections. Lobbying & Government. (blog), June 25, 2019, https://floridapolitics.com/archives/299694-did-rays-stu-sternberg-violate-his-contract-with-st-petersburg/; Josh Solomon and Emily L. Mahoney, “Tampa Bay Rays Minority Owners Sue Sternberg, Say He Secretly Negotiated Montreal Deal,” Tampa Bay Times, May 24, 2021, https://www.tampabay.com/news/st-petersburg/2021/05/24/tampa-bay-rays-minority-owners-say-sternberg-secretly-negotiated-montreal-deal-in-new-lawsuit/.

 

³ Marquette Law School, “Tampa Bay Rays Lease Summary,” 1–2, accessed December 3, 2021, https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/ls-mlb-tampa-bay.pdf.

 

⁴ C.T. Bowen and Josh Solomon, “Rays Resurrect Ybor City Stadium Idea,” Tampa Bay Times, May 27, 2021, https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2021/05/27/rays-resurrect-ybor-city-stadum-idea/; Mark Bergin, “Montreal Businessman on Rays’ Future: ‘It’s a Full-Time Team Played in 2 Places,’” wtsp.com, June 2, 2019, https://www.wtsp.com/article/sports/mlb/rays/stadium-saga/montreal-businessman-on-rays-future-its-a-full-time-team-played-in-2-places/67-3b68f264-fdbc-4231-8bb9-0a0d5162c0db; Jeff Passan, “Rays to Explore Splitting Games with Montreal,” ESPN.com, June 20, 2019, https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27016429/rays-explore-splitting-games-montreal; Marc Topkin, “The Rays’ Montreal Plan: A Peek behind the Curtain,” Tampa Bay Times, June 22, 2019, https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2019/06/22/the-rays-montreal-plan-a-peek-behind-the-curtain/.

 

⁵ Jeff Blair, “What Are Likely Scenarios as Rays Tease Tampa-Montreal Split Season?,” Sportsnet.ca, October 1, 2021, https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/likely-scenarios-rays-tease-tampa-montreal-split-season/; Bowen and Solomon, “Rays Resurrect Ybor City Stadium Idea”; Jay Cridlin, “The Rays, the Mayor and Montreal: St. Petersburg’s Stadium Drama, Explained,” Tampa Bay Times, June 4, 2021, https://www.tampabay.com/news/st-petersburg/2021/06/04/the-rays-the-mayor-and-montreal-st-petersburgs-stadium-drama-explained/; Jared Diamond, “The Tampa Bay Rays Still Want to Play Half Their Home Games in Montreal,” Wall Street Journal, October 8, 2021, sec. Life, https://www.wsj.com/articles/tampa-bay-rays-montreal-11633668244; Charlie Frago, “Tampa Bay Rays Get More Specific on Ballpark Cost,” Tampa Bay Times, November 12, 2021, https://www.tampabay.com/news/tampa/2021/11/12/tampa-bay-rays-get-more-specific-on-ballpark-cost/; JP Peterson, “JP SHOW- 11/11/21,” November 11, 2021, https://fanstreamsports.com/jp-show-11-11-21/; Frédéric Tomesco, “Quebec Open to Funding Part of New Baseball Stadium, Legault Says,” Montreal Gazette, March 23, 2021, https://montrealgazette.com/business/local-business/quebec-open-to-funding-part-of-new-baseball-stadium-legault-says; Topkin, “The Rays’ Montreal Plan.”

 

⁶ ABC Action News, Rays Owner Committed to Making Split-Season Montreal Deal Happen, 2019, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Q_tpBsZnE.

 

⁷ 10 Tampa Bay, “TRAITORS!” Tampa Bay Rays Fan Not Happy with Possible Montreal Split | 10News WTSP, 2019, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VuOzueN1o; ABC Action News, Local Business, Rays Fan Speak on the Proposed Season Split with Montreal, 2019, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cmVBNud2MI.

 

⁸ Diamond, “The Tampa Bay Rays Still Want to Play Half Their Home Games in Montreal”; ESPN.com news services, “Evan Longoria of Tampa Bay Rays Calls out Team’s Fans for Not Showing Up,” ESPN, September 28, 2010, https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5625055; Matthew Ross, “CONFIRMED: Stephen Bronfman Will Be a Guest of #RaysUp Owner Stu Sternberg Tomorrow in Oakland for the #WildCardGame . #Expos #Montreal,” Tweet, @MatthewWords (blog), October 1, 2019, https://twitter.com/MatthewWords/status/1179152593752350722; Zach Spedden, “Rob Manfred Backs Rays’ Pursuit of Split-Season Plan,” Ballpark Digest (blog), February 7, 2020, https://ballparkdigest.com/2020/02/07/rob-manfred-backs-rays-pursuit-of-split-season-plan/; Marc Topkin, “Rays’ Veteran Players Voice Concerns about ‘Montreal Plan,’” Tampa Bay Times, July 5, 2019, https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2019/07/05/rays-veteran-players-voice-concerns-about-montreal-plan/.

 

⁹ Bowen and Solomon, “Rays Resurrect Ybor City Stadium Idea”; Cridlin, “The Rays, the Mayor and Montreal”; Evan Donovan and Justin Schecker, “Tampa Bay Rays Consider State Help for Proposed Ybor City Stadium Site,” WFLA (blog), October 8, 2021, https://www.wfla.com/sports/rays/tampa-bay-rays-consider-state-help-for-proposed-ybor-city-stadium-site/; Frago, “Tampa Bay Rays Get More Specific on Ballpark Cost”; Peterson, “JP SHOW- 11/11/21”; Marian Scott, Linda Gyulai, and T’Cha Dunlevy, “Mayoral Candidates Would Love for Baseball to Return — as Long as Montreal Doesn’t Pay for It,” Montreal Gazette, September 28, 2021, https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mayoral-candidates-would-love-for-baseball-to-return-so-long-as-montreal-doesnt-pay-for-it; Tomesco, “Quebec Open to Funding Part of New Baseball Stadium, Legault Says”; Marc Topkin, “Rays Change Plans, Won’t Post Sign about Montreal at Tropicana Field,” Tampa Bay Times, September 28, 2021, https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2021/09/28/rays-change-plans-wont-post-sign-about-montreal-at-trop/.

 

¹⁰ Pransky, “Did Rays’ Stu Sternberg Violate His Contract with St. Petersburg?”; Noah Pransky, “Sternberg Says He Has Talked to MTL Investor Bronfman about Concept of Sharing the #Rays between Two Cities. With His Disclosure That He Wants to Split the Games as Early as 2024, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE CLEAR VIOLATION OF TEAM’S CONTRACT WITH ST. PETE PROHIBITING THESE TALKS.,” Tweet, @noahpransky (blog), June 25, 2019, https://twitter.com/noahpransky/status/1143571686777925637; Peterson, “JP SHOW- 11/11/21”; Solomon and Mahoney, “Tampa Bay Rays Minority Owners Sue Sternberg, Say He Secretly Negotiated Montreal Deal.”

 

¹¹ Frago, “Tampa Bay Rays Get More Specific on Ballpark Cost.”

 

Montreal playing the long game I see...

[Coiler]

Love the Pandas, but think an alt with white uniforms and bamboo leaf green pinstripes would look great too.

[SFGiants58]

Thanks, guys!

 

DENVER WHITE SOX - Purple and Pale Hose

 

Remember when oil tycoon Marvin Lewis tried to acquire the A’s, during Charlie O’s escape sale? Well, he might have also contacted Bill Veeck for the White Sox in 1979. It obviously didn’t work and Veeck swore that the Sox weren’t for sale.

 

Quote

“It's a bunch of garbage,” Veeck said. “He approached us maybe six months ago, and we told him no, and that's it.

 

“No negotiations are going on. There are no discussions. What else can I say?”¹

 

However, let’s assume that Veeck was more interested in money than keeping his team.

 

The color scheme is purple/silver, as seen in my old Rockies concept. Carton also returns from that design, with a slab-serif “Sox” logo in the 1917 style.

 

The home and road feature an emphasis on placket trim and the purple/thin silver/white socks.

 

 

The alternates are a purple top and a 1959 home throwback.

 

 

The jackets are a purple coat with a “White Sox” wordmark and a black design from the Project 32 days.

 

 

It’s a fun little twist, one that allowed me to make another 1917-styled “Sox” logo.

 

Up next, a revision to my first story and the first batch of “leftovers.” 
 

¹ Associated Press, “Veeck Denies Plans To Sell White Sox,” The New York Times, October 10, 1979, sec. Archives, https://www.nytimes.com/1979/10/10/archives/veeck-denies-plans-to-sell-white-sox-not-on-the-agenda.html.

[SFGiants58]

This next post is my collected revision of the first three relocation stories and one attempted relocation. I've edited the original posts to reflect these changes. I'll put them in the spoilers section to prevent your browser from hoggin' RAM.

 

Boston Braves

 

Spoiler

The original post on the Boston Braves was an absurdly short summary with no cited sources. I’d like to take this opportunity to rectify that mistake and bring it in line with some of my other explanations.

While the Braves predated the Red Sox in Boston by several decades, it was clear by the 1930s that the balance of power had shifted towards the American League club. Between several new owners and temporarily a new name (Bees), the Braves couldn’t emerge from their attendance rut. They never finished in the top half of attendance between 1934 and 1946. Despite the buoying of the 1948 NL Pennant team and its associated attendance boost (1,455,439), the team’s fortunes had fallen back to their norm by the start of the ‘50s (944,391 in 1950, 487,475 in 1951, and 281,278 in 1952).¹  This is where an infamous picture comes from, during a game against the Pirates in May:

 

(A lone fan in the stands, 1952)² 

 

Adding to the problem, the team lost $459,009 in 1952 ($4,790,824 in today’s money – it doesn’t sound like much, but overhead was far lower in the ‘40s/’50s).³ 

Owner Lou Perini, a Boston construction leader, looked to Milwaukee as a solution to the Braves’ financial and attendance woes. The Braves owned the American Association Brewers, so it made a relocation prospect easier (especially after Veeck’s effort to relocate the Browns fell through, thanks to Perini). After selling only 420 season tickets in the lead-up to the 1953 season and negotiating with Fred Miller of Miller Brewing Company, Perini was set on moving to Milwaukee’s new County Stadium. It only required the approval of National League President Warren C. Giles, Commissioner Ford C. Frick, and the National League team owners.⁴  

On March 18, 1953, the National League owners approved the relocation of the Braves. The only real hang-up was moving the Pirates into the “eastern division” of the NL (yes, the league had de-facto divisions then).  Reactions in Boston were mostly ones of apathy or shock, with the media slyly observing that not many would miss the Braves.⁵ In the words of Joseph F. Dinneen Jr. of The Boston Globe:

 

Quote

Few fans became emotional over the loss of the franchise, and it was generally accepted that fandom would be satisfied to follow the Red Sox, as had been in recent years anyway, to the chagrin of Braves' owner Lou Perini.⁶

The 420 season ticket buyers got refunds, Boston University purchased Braves Field (now Nickerson Field and campus PD), and the Milwaukee Braves had a huge rush of season ticket purchases. This move was undoubtedly an upgrade over playing second fiddle to the Red Sox.⁷ 

 

TL;DR:

 

 

¹ LeMoine, “Boston Braves Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research,” SABR (blog), September 26, 2020, https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/boston-braves-team-ownership-history/; Craig Muder, “Braves’ Move to Milwaukee Shook Baseball’s World,” Baseball Hall of Fame, accessed December 4, 2021, https://baseballhall.org/discover/inside-pitch/braves-move-to-milwaukee-shook-baseballs-world; Saul Wisnia, “September 21, 1952: Braves Bid Adieu to Boston in Home Finale – Society for American Baseball Research,” SABR (blog), December 5, 2020, https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/september-21-1952-braves-bid-adieu-to-boston-in-home-finale/; “Atlanta Braves Attendance, Stadiums, and Park Factors,” Baseball-Reference.com, accessed December 8, 2021, https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ATL/attend.shtml.

 

² Paul J. Maguire, “Private Audience at Braves Field,” The Boston Globe, March 17, 1953.

 

³ LeMoine, “Boston Braves Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research.”

 

⁴ Patrick Steele, Home of the Braves: The Battle for Baseball in Milwaukee, 1st edition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 2020); The Boston Globe Staff, “Returned, With Thanks Only 420 Season Tickets Sold for Boston Braves,” The Boston Globe, March 19, 1953.

 

⁵ Jack Hand, “Transfer of Braves to Milwaukee Viewed as First in Series of Future Changes,” Youngstown Vindicator, March 19, 1953.

 

⁶ Joseph F. Dinneen, “Only Faithful Really Mourn Shift of Club,” The Boston Globe, March 19, 1953.

 

⁷ Associated Press, “Braves Season Tickets,” The Journal Times, April 21, 1953; Steele, Home of the Braves; The Boston Globe Staff, “Returned, With Thanks Only 420 Season Tickets Sold for Boston Braves.”

 

 

St. Louis Browns

 

 

Spoiler

Frequently a last-place finisher, the Browns had few stellar moments in their five decades in St. Louis (e.g., the 1944 pennant, George Sisler, and Bobby Wallace). There was even an attempt to move the team to Los Angeles in 1941, but WWII put a stop to that. Owner Bill Veeck tried to make the most of the team during the early-‘50s, with various publicity stunts like Eddie “1/8” Gaedel and the grandstand managers. These stunts, as well as his broadcasting proposals, turned many of the American League owners against Veeck. However, the team’s attendance rose somewhat in this period (293,270 to 518,796 in 1952, but the Cardinals still outdrew them by over 400,000 fans) due to Veeck’s commitments to the market.¹

 

The Browns still had leverage in St. Louis, as they owned Sportsman’s Park. However, that leverage went away once Anheuser-Busch Inc. bought the Cardinals. Veeck realized that relocation was the only way forward, selling Sportsman’s Park to Anheuser-Busch for $1.1 million and beginning to look for offers elsewhere.² One anecdote of this period, as relayed by Dennis Pajot and Greg Erion in their excellent SABR article:

 

Quote

When August “Gussie” Busch, president of the brewery, came to Sportsman’s Park for the first time as owner of the Cardinals, Veeck welcomed him, saying, “Glad to see you. But I’m afraid you’re going to offer us a little difficult competition.” Busch’s smiling “You’re right” confirmed to Veeck that the Browns could succeed only if they moved.³

 

The Browns’ departure from the city involved several false starts, the first being in Milwaukee and the second being in Baltimore. The Milwaukee pursuit ended with Perini’s resistance in 1952, while the 1952-53 American League kept voting “no” on any plans involving Veeck moving the team to Baltimore (6-2 the first time and 4-4 the second). Afterwards, Baltimore boosters offered up a revised framework that excluded Veeck. The AL unanimously approved this plan on September 30, 1953 and the age of the Browns came to an end.⁴

 

¹ Dennis Pajot and Greg Erion, “St. Louis Browns Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research,” SABR (blog), September 26, 2020, https://sabr.org/bioproj/topic/st-louis-browns-team-ownership-history/; St. Louis Browns Historical Society & Fan Club, “The Official Site of the St. Louis Browns Historical Society & Fan Club,” thestlbrowns.com, accessed December 8, 2021, http://www.thestlbrowns.com/.

 

² Pajot and Erion, “St. Louis Browns Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research.”

 

³ Paul Dickson, Bill Veeck, Baseball’s Greatest Maverick (New York, NY: Walker & Company, 2012), 208; Pajot and Erion, “St. Louis Browns Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research.”

 

⁴ Pajot and Erion, “St. Louis Browns Team Ownership History – Society for American Baseball Research”; Joseph M. Sheehan, “Baltimore Gets St. Louis Browns As Syndicate Buys Veeck Interest; American League Unanimously Approves Move -- Controlling Stock Brings $2,475,000 Browns Shift to Baltimore as Syndicate Buys Out Veeck CONTROLLING STOCK SOLD FOR $2,475,000,” The New York Times, September 30, 1953, sec. Archives, https://www.nytimes.com/1953/09/30/archives/baltimore-gets-st-louis-browns-as-syndicate-buys-veeck-interest.html. 

 

 

Milwaukee Brewers (former St. Louis Browns)

 

Spoiler

It is well-known that Bill Veeck, upon learning that Anheuser-Busch Inc. bought the Cardinals (and even before that), attempted to move the Browns to Milwaukee. The club spent its first year in Milwaukee (the founding location of the American League, as noted by this sign across the street from the Milwaukee County Historical Society's headquarters), but then moved to St. Louis and played like a toxic trash heap for the better part of 50 years. With Veeck's former ownership of the American Association Brewers, such a move made sense. 

 

Boosters had contacted Veeck about a potential move and/or sale to Milwaukee. However, Lou Perini of the Boston Braves would not give up his territory rights in Milwaukee, no matter how much money Veeck promised him. While it may have looked like Perini was blocking the move for inane reasons (i.e., preserving his minor-league club in Milwaukee), it was more that Perini wanted to move the Braves to the location.¹

 

Even if Perini had allowed for the purchase of the territory and the Browns tried to move to Milwaukee, the “Old Boys' Club” known as the American League owners wanted Veeck out. That’s why the owners allowed the team to move to Baltimore under new leadership. However, let’s assume that Fred Miller (of Miller Brewing Company) and other Milwaukee boosters bought the team and the AL approved the move.²

 

¹ Patrick Steele, Home of the Braves: The Battle for Baseball in Milwaukee, 1st edition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 2020).

² Steele.

 

 

Philadelphia Athletics

 

Spoiler

The fall of the Athletics began when The Great Depression led to the dissolution of the second dynasty team (1929-30 World Series champions, 1931 AL pennant winners), with owner/manager Connie Mack penny-pinching to keep the team alive. Compounding the issue were family squabbles within the Mack/Shibe-MacFarland family partnership that owned the team. The Shibe-MacFarland family had lost much of their leadership by the end of the ‘30s, with Tom and John Shibe dying in 1936 and 1937 respectively. This pitted Mack’s two groups of children (Roy and Earle from his first marriage and Connie Jr. from the second) against each other, as Connie Sr. slipped further into dementia.¹

 

By 1950, the Mack siblings could no longer ignore the team’s financial and on-field issues. Conflicts in organization philosophy between Connie Jr. and Roy/Earle led to Connie Jr. and his mother gaining a majority of shares in the team (with the Shibe-MacFarland family). Roy and Earle took out a loan of $1,750,000 to buy out Connie Jr. in 1950, but soon found that repaying said loan would be difficult. They were losing money in 1953 and ’54, with uncompetitive teams drawing poorly at the box office. Compounding this issue was something that had happened to the Braves and Browns before them – intercity competition.²

 

The Phillies, despite being the historically less successful team, came under the ownership of Robert Carpenter in 1943. Under Carpenter’s leadership and with his extensive commercial empire fueling the pocketbook, the Phillies rose in stature. By 1950 they had won the NL pennant and had outdrawn the fading Athletics, whose thin coffers doomed them to non-contention. Additionally, the Phillies paid only a small sum to rent Shibe Park from the Athletics, so Roy and Earle could not depend on a sizeable income from their tenant.³

 

As 1954 drew on, Roy and Earle Mack had to buoy the club with either additional investors or selling the club to new owners. Earle quietly withdrew from running the club as Roy took command of the effort. While there were numerous local owners wanting to keep the team in Philadelphia, Kansas City’s Arnold Johnson emerged as a suitor. He would offer more guaranteed money to Roy Mack and move the team to Kansas City. He also had the favor of the American League owners, especially the New York Yankees for his ownership of numerous team assets (I called him a “toadie” in the original version of this write-up).⁴

 

Between September and November 1954, Johnson and a syndicate of Philadelphia businessmen vied for the Athletics, with Johnson winning out after the Philadelphia syndicate could only put forth $1.4 million of their $4 million purchase agreement. Such a lack of funding would ward off any potential seller (outside of the NHL) On November 8, 1954, the American League made the move to Kansas City official, once Johnson sold all of his Yankees-related assets (e.g., Yankee Stadium itself). Mack’s penny-pinching, senility, family squabbles, and his son Roy’s lack of faith in local buyers doomed the Philadelphia Athletics.⁵

 

¹ John E. Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954–1967 (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 2012), 12–22; Robert D. Warrington, “Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia | Society for American Baseball Research,” Society for American Baseball Research, accessed June 25, 2018, https://sabr.org/research/departure-without-dignity-athletics-leave-philadelphia.

 

² Warrington, “Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia | Society for American Baseball Research.”

 

³ Warrington.

 

⁴ Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics, 11–22.

 

⁵ Warrington, “Departure Without Dignity: The Athletics Leave Philadelphia | Society for American Baseball Research.”

 

With that out of the way, here's a few leftovers that I had lying around:

 

NEW JERSEY STALLIONS - per an old @MJD7 suggestion, here they are in brown/yellow/light blue:

 

 

 

MIAMI GATORS - per a @Frylock idea, here's a '73-'77 "Gators" wordmark and jersey:

 

 

Up next, a few more leftovers!

[Frylock]

OMG Shut up and take my money. RIGHT NOW. Thank you for making that Gators idea/request a reality. You nailed it!

[coco1997]

The Denver White Sox look great! I guess one way to avoid criticisms of the Rockies ripping off the White Sox is to simply turn the White Sox into the Rockies.

 

My only nitpick is I think the design would work better with a blockier, more angular "SOX" logo such as the 1943-46 one, for the primary/cap .  And oh man, I just had this image of you taking the secondary logo and turning the top of the baseball diamond into a mountain ridge/peak design. 
 

Also, the "Caveman" style Gators script for Miami is fantastic! 

[teeray01]

Love the Washington Pandas and the "Caveman" style Miami Gators!

[KittSmith_95]

Would asking for a "Guardians" inspired Gators look be too much to ask for? Really liking the Caveman style font for them, but I do think it'd be fun to see how the the new look translates over. 

Also, sorry for not commenting on this series for a while. Haven't had much to say on any of the recent designs, as it's your usual terrific work that makes me jealous every single time I see it. Agree with @coco1997 on wanting to see both the things he brought up for the Denver White Sox set though. 

Not sure what's next or what you plan to do after this, but I feel like you'd kill whatever you set out to do. 

[maxwasson]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:54 AM, KittSmith_95 said:

Would asking for a "Guardians" inspired Gators look be too much to ask for? Really liking the Caveman style font for them, but I do think it'd be fun to see how the the new look translates over. 

Also, sorry for not commenting on this series for a while. Haven't had much to say on any of the recent designs, as it's your usual terrific work that makes me jealous every single time I see it. Agree with @coco1997 on wanting to see both the things he brought up for the Denver White Sox set though. 

Not sure what's next or what you plan to do after this, but I feel like you'd kill whatever you set out to do. 

 

Maybe we get a sequel thread with defunct 19th century NL teams, the Rays sweepstakes, and other potential expansion/relocation teams

[coco1997]

In reading a bit more about Marvin Davis' ill-fated attempt to purchase the White Sox in 1979, I also stumbled upon this interesting nugget regarding Ohio businessman Eddie DeBartolo's own failed bid to buy the Pale Hose:

 

Quote

DeBartolo's bid had been publicly criticized by Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kuhn, who indicated it would not be in baseball's best interest to have an owner of a team not be based in that city. Kuhn also voiced concern that DeBartolo, who owned the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins and racetracks in Illinois and Louisiana, would move the team to New Orleans.

 

Edward DeBartolo Sr.'s bid to purchase the Chicago White... - UPI Archives

 

Quote

There is also the possibility the DeBartolos, after a decent interval here, may try to move the White Sox to New Orleans where there is a Superdome and where the family has vast holdings. Less than a month ago, Edward Sr. in an interview published in New Orleans, revealed this was the intention, a remark later denied by Edward Jr., who said his father didn't know what he was talking about.

 

The Vidette 25 August 1980 — The Vidette Digital Archives (ilstu.edu)
 

Not sure if that's enough to justify a New Orleans White Sox concept, but it's an interesting bit of alternate history regardless. My mind naturally jumped to wanting to see the Sox in Mardi Gras colors, but then I realized it might be more realistic to put the team in black and old gold to create some visual synergy with the local NFL team. 

[erb6g6]

I've loved following this series! Curious if you'll go back and do a set for the Indianapolis Arrows' original look?

[vtgco]

Sorry for such a delayed response to everything, but I'm glad to see the series back up and running! Excellent work, as always. Here's a swarm of nitpicks for you to take or leave...

 

Joint Tampa Bay/Montreal branding seems really hard to pull off, but you've done an excellent job! Great catch for the name idea.

The gradient obviously feels right for Tampa Bay, but works well surprisingly well for a Quebec-based team, as @PERRIN has proven before... I'm curious how a more line-gradient (like @PERRIN's concept) or chunk-gradient (a la Utah Jazz Red Rocks) treatment would work on the jerseys in place of the true gradient.

The powder blue feels more cohesive than the lime green to me... I know neither shade appears in the gradient, but that green feels especially out of place.

I'm also curious if racing stripes would look good instead of headspoons, as a bit of an Expos homage to balance out the Devil Rays homages.

Finally, the dragonfly logo itself is solid, but the roundel composition feels a bit too sparse for me... Maybe the dragonfly wants to extend outside of the circle? (Quick & messy attempts)

 

The Pandas are really fun, and a unique look for DC that I know I could never have thought of : P

Albertus works well, and that black DC alternate is really pleasant.

Only suggestions would be to remove the panda's knee from the roundel, and possibly try black scripts and player names with green outlines.

 

Not feeling the blue horse for the New Jersey update, but otherwise the use of brown looks just as good as navy did.

 

The A's look for Portland is pretty much perfect! The white roses work really well on that sorta heraldic-style shield, and I like this iteration of the elephant's little shawl. Only complaint is about the green jersey's counter-colored white sleeve piping...

 

I like what you did based on @heavybass's idea about Vegas gold for the Vegas A's. The neon version works too, though the yellow and neon green aren't very distinct from each other; maybe ditch the yellow in favor of silver or even LV Lights pink...?

Regardless of the secondary colors you use, I think the dark, desaturated forest green is the move for Vegas, since the glitzy "brightness" really comes through when contrasted with a dark base IMO.

Anyways, I love that LV/spade combo and would love to see it on its own on a sleeve or even the chest!

 

The San Jose script for the A's is beautiful, and Silicon Valley looks almost as good... I'd love to see the microchip (maybe turned 45deg?) as the inner container of the roundel logo for the Silicon Valley version, instead of replacing the elephant's baseball. I think I prefer "Silicon Valley" for the name, but I'm curious, did you consider "Golden State" at all, or do the Warriors own that too much?

 

I love the shades of purple and silver for the Denver White Sox; no complaints. I imagine it doesn't match the timeline, but it makes me wonder what a Colorado-flag Batterman jersey would be like... 

 

That RWB Carolina baseball-Hornets fauxback is really beautiful!

 

Salt Lake Twins look good with all those pinstripes, especially in blue/yellow/"Salt Lake" teal. Blue & red with a touch of yellow (a la RSL) might be nice too.

[Coiler]

It wouldn't be the most exotic location, but given the seemingly unsucessful attempt by Long Beach to lure the Angels, you could do the Long Beach Angels if you wanted.

 

(That or make Long Beach the subject of the 5 millionth A's relocation...)

[teeray01]

Baltimore Orioles to Nashville?   https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2019/08/12/an-orioles-move-to-nashville-has-been-rooted-for.html

[coco1997]

57 minutes ago, Coiler said:

It wouldn't be the most exotic location, but given the seemingly unsucessful attempt by Long Beach to lure the Angels, you could do the Long Beach Angels if you wanted.

Funnily enough, Long Beach State’s logo strongly resembles the California Angels’ original “LA” monogram:

 

[SFGiants58]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:42 PM, Frylock said:

OMG Shut up and take my money. RIGHT NOW. Thank you for making that Gators idea/request a reality. You nailed it!

 

Thanks and you're very welcome!

 

On 12/9/2021 at 6:47 AM, coco1997 said:

The Denver White Sox look great! I guess one way to avoid criticisms of the Rockies ripping off the White Sox is to simply turn the White Sox into the Rockies.

 

My only nitpick is I think the design would work better with a blockier, more angular "SOX" logo such as the 1943-46 one, for the primary/cap .  And oh man, I just had this image of you taking the secondary logo and turning the top of the baseball diamond into a mountain ridge/peak design. 
 

Also, the "Caveman" style Gators script for Miami is fantastic! 

 

Thanks! Now that you mention it, I'm not sure I like the '43-'46/blocky "Sox" design or the mountains. I prefer sticking with a display font and the mountains seem a bit much.

 

 

It was a good suggestion, but I don't think it really works with my design idea on this one.

 

On 12/9/2021 at 7:54 AM, KittSmith_95 said:

Would asking for a "Guardians" inspired Gators look be too much to ask for? Really liking the Caveman style font for them, but I do think it'd be fun to see how the the new look translates over. 

Also, sorry for not commenting on this series for a while. Haven't had much to say on any of the recent designs, as it's your usual terrific work that makes me jealous every single time I see it. Agree with @coco1997 on wanting to see both the things he brought up for the Denver White Sox set though. 

Not sure what's next or what you plan to do after this, but I feel like you'd kill whatever you set out to do. 

 

Thanks! I thought about using the new Guardians stuff for the Gators, but I'm just not really high on exporting the Guardians' identity. It's very specific to Cleveland and its references to the Guardians of Traffic statues. It doesn't really work with a Miami design, especially with the fonts. Also, I saw one glimpse of the display font isolated and thought "gee, this looks bad - especially the 'M'"

 

 

I just don't like the "M" at all. I'm thinking of redesigning the Guardians themselves to be less "too clever by half" in their execution. 

 

On 12/10/2021 at 10:16 AM, maxwasson said:

 

Maybe we get a sequel thread with defunct 19th century NL teams, the Rays sweepstakes, and other potential expansion/relocation teams

 

Maybe. I'm definitely thinking of doing an expansion thread at some point (with a "likeliness index" for it). I don't know when that'll be, as I have other ideas for series in other sports. 

 

On 12/13/2021 at 9:36 AM, coco1997 said:

In reading a bit more about Marvin Davis' ill-fated attempt to purchase the White Sox in 1979, I also stumbled upon this interesting nugget regarding Ohio businessman Eddie DeBartolo's own failed bid to buy the Pale Hose:

 

 

Edward DeBartolo Sr.'s bid to purchase the Chicago White... - UPI Archives

 

 

The Vidette 25 August 1980 — The Vidette Digital Archives (ilstu.edu)
 

Not sure if that's enough to justify a New Orleans White Sox concept, but it's an interesting bit of alternate history regardless. My mind naturally jumped to wanting to see the Sox in Mardi Gras colors, but then I realized it might be more realistic to put the team in black and old gold to create some visual synergy with the local NFL team. 

 

Thanks for notifying me! It'll be in the next update.

 

On 12/13/2021 at 10:42 AM, erb6g6 said:

I've loved following this series! Curious if you'll go back and do a set for the Indianapolis Arrows' original look?

 

I might do something in another thread, focused on expansion. 

 

4 hours ago, teeray01 said:

Baltimore Orioles to Nashville?   https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2019/08/12/an-orioles-move-to-nashville-has-been-rooted-for.html

Reading the article and comparing it to other rumored expansions, I'd say it's unlikely. The Orioles have extended their original lease at Camden Yards to 2023, while considering a longer lease with more uses for the venue during the offseason/out-of-town days. While the Angelos family may sell the team, it doesn't seem like a Spanos situation here with constant brutal fighting against the city. If I'm going to do a Nashville concept, it'll be in another series (see above).

 

5 hours ago, Coiler said:

It wouldn't be the most exotic location, but given the seemingly unsucessful attempt by Long Beach to lure the Angels, you could do the Long Beach Angels if you wanted.

 

(That or make Long Beach the subject of the 5 millionth A's relocation...)

 

Well, knowing Arte Moreno, they'd still be the Los Angeles Angels. However, that has given me an idea for an interlocking logo.

 

 

No, this is not me prototyping for a future series, why do you ask?

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

Sorry for such a delayed response to everything, but I'm glad to see the series back up and running! Excellent work, as always. Here's a swarm of nitpicks for you to take or leave...

 

Joint Tampa Bay/Montreal branding seems really hard to pull off, but you've done an excellent job! Great catch for the name idea.

The gradient obviously feels right for Tampa Bay, but works well surprisingly well for a Quebec-based team, as @PERRIN has proven before... I'm curious how a more line-gradient (like @PERRIN's concept) or chunk-gradient (a la Utah Jazz Red Rocks) treatment would work on the jerseys in place of the true gradient.

The powder blue feels more cohesive than the lime green to me... I know neither shade appears in the gradient, but that green feels especially out of place.

I'm also curious if racing stripes would look good instead of headspoons, as a bit of an Expos homage to balance out the Devil Rays homages.

Finally, the dragonfly logo itself is solid, but the roundel composition feels a bit too sparse for me... Maybe the dragonfly wants to extend outside of the circle? (Quick & messy attempts)

 

Thanks! I'm glad you got back into the series. I've never been the most keen on line gradients for this series, especially not when the true gradient is what the Rays did. I do like them in PERRIN's concept and in other applications. As with the chunks, it just didn't fit as well with the design for me. It's more of an Astros thing.

 

Your comments about the dragonfly's size and the roundel coloration definitely gave me some thoughts (as well as your Baie de Tampa text on the Montréal roundel). I'd say it looks a lot better.

 

 

With the racing stripes, I'm not as big a fan of them. However, I thought they'd look good on the road alternate with gradient inners.

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

The Pandas are really fun, and a unique look for DC that I know I could never have thought of : P

Albertus works well, and that black DC alternate is really pleasant.

Only suggestions would be to remove the panda's knee from the roundel, and possibly try black scripts and player names with green outlines.

 

Thanks. Now that you mention it, the knee is a bit of a problem and an easy fix.

 

 

 

 

I'm not as keen on the black lettering with green outlines, but it is still a good look.

 

 

I do like the suggestions of @coco1997 for a '74-'77 Padres-like script and @Coiler's pinstripes.

 

 

 

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

Not feeling the blue horse for the New Jersey update, but otherwise the use of brown looks just as good as navy did.

 

The A's look for Portland is pretty much perfect! The white roses work really well on that sorta heraldic-style shield, and I like this iteration of the elephant's little shawl. Only complaint is about the green jersey's counter-colored white sleeve piping...

 

Thanks! I kept the contrast white as it fit with the "gold and white don't touch on green backgrounds" approach.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

I like what you did based on @heavybass's idea about Vegas gold for the Vegas A's. The neon version works too, though the yellow and neon green aren't very distinct from each other; maybe ditch the yellow in favor of silver or even LV Lights pink...?

Regardless of the secondary colors you use, I think the dark, desaturated forest green is the move for Vegas, since the glitzy "brightness" really comes through when contrasted with a dark base IMO.

Anyways, I love that LV/spade combo and would love to see it on its own on a sleeve or even the chest!

 

Thanks! I do like your idea to use pink for the neon-styled set. It's a bit out there as a design, but it looks pretty unique.

 

 

 

It's like the pink aisle version of an original Xbox dashboard. I like it!

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

The San Jose script for the A's is beautiful, and Silicon Valley looks almost as good... I'd love to see the microchip (maybe turned 45deg?) as the inner container of the roundel logo for the Silicon Valley version, instead of replacing the elephant's baseball. I think I prefer "Silicon Valley" for the name, but I'm curious, did you consider "Golden State" at all, or do the Warriors own that too much?

 

You know that while I prefer the roundel, I really like your suggestion of the microchip on its own.

 

 

I never considered "Golden State" because the Warriors truly own that one and there are too many teams that predate the A's in the state to justify it. "Silicon Valley" has more branding caché, IMHO

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

I love the shades of purple and silver for the Denver White Sox; no complaints. I imagine it doesn't match the timeline, but it makes me wonder what a Colorado-flag Batterman jersey would be like... 

 

Thanks and wonder no more!

 

 

It was quick, but it was very fun.

 

On 12/14/2021 at 7:10 PM, vtgco said:

That RWB Carolina baseball-Hornets fauxback is really beautiful!

 

Salt Lake Twins look good with all those pinstripes, especially in blue/yellow/"Salt Lake" teal. Blue & red with a touch of yellow (a la RSL) might be nice too.

 

Thanks! I'm not sure, I'm hesitant to insert yellow when there's no place for it. 

 

The next update will be tomorrow (or later today, depending on time zone)!

 

[vtgco]

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Thanks and wonder no more!

 

 

It was quick, but it was very fun

I love that the yellow rectangle inside the O is a little Colorado! Looks great

Also really love the blocky update for the main Denver White Sox concept! I like the mountain idea, but you're right that they jut out too much as is... I think they could work if they keep 45deg angles and reside within the basepath.

 

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I'm not as keen on the black lettering with green outlines, but it is still a good look.

Roundel update is good, and I think the black lettering looks quite nice. That pinstripe jersey is really great; nice to get more black & white together for a more panda-y look!

 

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Thanks! I'm glad you got back into the series. I've never been the most keen on line gradients for this series, especially not when the true gradient is what the Rays did. I do like them in PERRIN's concept and in other applications. As with the chunks, it just didn't fit as well with the design for me. It's more of an Astros thing.

Fair enough about the gradients; Astros do kinda own that, it's true.

The roundel looks much better; I'd just wish for something to fill the gaps between the wings and the "Montreal" text...

Your take on the racing stripes is very well-executed, and I'd bet they'd look really nice on powder blue or navy blue jerseys...

 

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

You know that while I prefer the roundel, I really like your suggestion of the microchip on its own.

Balancing on a ball is hard but balancing on the corner of a microchip is especially impressive! :P

In all seriousness, the update looks great. With you about Golden State.

 

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

It's like the pink aisle version of an original Xbox dashboard. I like it!

After actually seeing it, I'm feeling it on the green jersey and the jacket a lot, but the low color contrast is kinda difficult for me on the rest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Thanks! I'm not sure, I'm hesitant to insert yellow when there's no place for it. 

Fair, just a thought.

 

Thanks for humoring some of those ideas!

[Coiler]

Like the Pinstriped Pandas, and the pink/neon Vegas A's look a lot more distinct now.

[coco1997]

Lots to comment on!

- I actually do like the blockier "SOX" logo (even though your original version was great as is) and the mountain peaks on the baseball diamond turned out really cool!

- The Long Beach Angels monogram looks great!

- The '70s Padres style "Pandas" script is fantastic! Just like I imagined it. 

- The gradient racing stripes on the Dragonflies are really cool! Confining the gradient within two navy stripes was a smart idea. 

- Pink on the Las Vegas A's is weird but you found a way to make it work.

- The '83 Sox unis in the Colorado flag colors also look great; I only wish you had carried over the sleeve and chest striping style from the white jersey to the blue one. 

 

Excited to see the NOLA White Sox!