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MLB: The Defunct Saga - Bibliography Added


SFGiants58

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I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before... the saddle on the elephant for the Portland A’s logo? Instead of the Northwestern stripe, the city of Portland flag:

 

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It’s probably way too detailed, but it does feature green and yellow...

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SEATTLE PILOTS, THE EXPLANATION – Crashed after takeoff

 

The final entry into the Defunct Saga was always the planned finale, back when this series was gestating in early 2018. The Seattle Pilots’ story isn’t drawn out and socioeconomically driven as the Expos, nor is it as much of a spiteful departure as either American League DC team. It’s a delightful mixture of an unprepared ownership, a wretched venue, and a lack of local financial support.  

 

1. Charlie O. Finley moving the A’s created a rush for AL expansion, not allowing enough prep time.

 

Oakland-Athletics-owner-Charlie-Finley-with-Oakland-manager-Al-Dark-1974.jpg

 

(Charlie O. Finley admiring his Oakland stadium alongside A’s manager Dick Williams.)

 

The chain reaction that created (and arguably doomed) the Pilots began with the A’s moving the Oakland. This was in spite of Jackson County voters approving a $43 million ($357.8 million in 2021) bond for funding both baseball and football stadiums in 1967. Upset about the Athletics abandoning the city and the potential wasted money, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington began threatening MLB’s antitrust exemption. In Chicago during October 1967, the American League struck a deal to give Kansas City an expansion team by the 1971 season in exchange for letting the A’s move to Oakland in 1968.1 Because the leagues had balanced schedules at the time, the Kansas City expansion would need a partner. Following a presentation that included groups from Dallas-Fort Worth and Milwaukee (fresh off the loss of the Braves), Seattle would receive the other expansion team (again, by 1971). Senator Symington took AL President Joe Cronin up to his hotel room and gave him a thorough verbal thrashing. This evisceration was enough for Cronin to move the expansion date up to 1969, unknowingly putting pressure on the Seattle expansion group.2 One could feel the impact in several ways.

  • there wasn’t enough time to establish any kind of organizational operating procedures
  • not enough time to renovate Sick’s Stadium to MLB-quality status
  • not enough time to cultivate local business interest

The ownership group, led by former PCL President Dewey Soriano, his brother Max Soriano, and former Cleveland Indians owner Bill Daley, had to act quickly.

 

2. Operating at Sick’s Stadium was a horrendous experience.

 

sicks16-top.jpg

 

(Sick’s Stadium pictured following the renovation.)3

 

While King County (where Seattle is) approved the construction of a domed multi-purpose stadium (for MLB and the NFL) in 1968, it would not be ready until the ‘70s. The team had to renovate Sick’s Stadium (a large-sized minor league venue, built after Robert Bruce Driscoll burned down Dugdale Field in 1932) to get it to over 25,000, albeit in a much shorter timeframe than the original 1971 date would have allowed. Construction disputes over funding and public/private funding divides exacerbated the problems, alongside a rough winter in Seattle. It would be a rough experience.4

 

By opening day 1969, Sick’s capacity was only 18,000 and expanding while games were ongoing. The press box had an obstructed view of left field, while the field conditions were often poor (poor drainage). There was also the plumbing issue. Since there was not enough time for Sick’s to receive new plumbing, low water pressure and toilet issues emerged. The press box didn’t have water after the seventh inning.  Players had to take showers in their homes or hotels, while fans had to use honey buckets provided by the team. It was a particularly rough situation, made worse by ticket and concession prices.5

 

3. The ticket situation was dreadful.

 

10636a-lg.jpg

 

(A Seattle Pilots ticket, which depicts some of the prices.)

 

The Pilots had weak footing for a franchise, as the Sorianos had to borrow money for funding - $4 million from the Bank of California and $2 million from concession provider Sportservice Corporation (meaning the Pilots only received 20% of concession revenue). Adding to this issue was MLB’s refusal to give the Pilots any TV revenue for their first three years of existence. About the only way the Pilots would make money was through high ticket prices ($6 for field box, which was remarkably expensive at the time) and high concession prices (50 cents for a hot dog, when the standard price of bread was 33 cents). This pricing drew fan outrage, which made PR Director Bill Sears downplay the prices. The strategy didn’t work, as few people wanted to see an overpriced product in a decaying stadium with typical expansion team baseball (read: low-quality, enough to become fodder for Pilots pitcher Jim Bouton’s Ball Four).6

 

4. The team had near-nonexistent support from local business interests, meaning weak coffers.

 

getting-pilots-e1366409447805.jpg

 

(Dewey Soriano, Max Soriano, and William Daley presenting on their acquisition of the Pilots in 1967.)7

 

The aforementioned weak footing for the franchise’s financial state handicapped the team, as did a lack of local corporate support. The Sorianos and Daley did not receive much in the way of local business support in Seattle. This was partly the result of a local economic slump (Boeing nearly shut down) and a lack of trust in the Sorianos as owners. Looking at their loans to start the team and their own lack of acumen with local businesses (and alienating fans with price-gouging), one would not be surprised why a hurting business community wouldn’t support them. Daley also didn’t want to invest more money, as he saw that the Sorianos couldn’t keep the team running without alienating fans/businesses and that the support simply was not there for an awful and expensive club in a dilapidated venue. He gave the team one year to improve the situation, but that simply was not happening. The team would face a painful offseason.8

 

5. All of the above drove the team to bankruptcy, allowing Bud Selig to buy the team and move them to Milwaukee.

 

seligad.png

 

(My Mustang is Best Mustang because it’s a Selig Mustang!)

 

The team essentially had no money and several million dollars in outstanding debts (with creditors in the waiting) after the 1969 season, forcing a reconsideration of the team’s viability. Local buyers did not have the finances needed to buy the team and pay off all of the debts, with several groups failing to provide extensive enough financial profiles to justify a sale. Bud Selig, Milwaukee-area Ford dealership owner, put forth an offer of $10.8 million to buy the team and move them to Milwaukee. Daley and the Sorianos were interested, especially as Pacific Northwest Sports (the company they founded to operate MLB Seattle, preceding the Pilots) went bankrupt. Federal bankruptcy Judge Sidney Volinn allowed Selig to buy the Pilots and move them to Milwaukee while also absolving the over $4 million of debt incurred by Dewey and the Sorianos. This all happened in March 1970, allowing very little time for the Brewers to set themselves up in their new city (hence the Pilots-like uniforms of the 1970 club).9

 

After hearing of Selig’s offer, several Seattle locals and the State of Washington sued the American League for antitrust and breach of contract violations. Their initial hope was to create a simple injunction that would stop the team from movie, but Judge Volinn’s ruling overruled their measures. This case, State of Washington, et al. v. The American League, et al., would eventually reach trial in January 1976. As a means of averting a lengthy and costly trial, the American League voted to give Seattle an expansion team on January 11. The state would drop the trial in February and the Mariners would begin play in the Kingdome the next year.10

 

In the words of author Kurt Schaefer,

 

Quote

The process was begun with the best of intentions—to heighten the city’s national image, enhance the region’s economy, and solidify the city’s notion of community. By the spring of 1970 all of these hopes had been dashed. The team was gone, several of Seattle’s economic and civic leaders had fallen from grace, and a bitter taste was left in the mouths of everyone concerned.11

 

 

TL;DR: The burning caravan as the Pilots’ stadium/front office operation and the real train as the bankruptcy ruling.

 

lyMRmVi.gif

 

K0pewgE.gif

 

Oddly enough, it’s fairly easy to assign blame – Charlie O. Finley and MLB/the American League itself. Finley moving the A’s, despite the promise of a new stadium, set off the chain reaction that motivated Senator Symington’s outrage and the creation of the Kansas City and Seattle expansion clubs. MLB/AL, meanwhile, did not properly vet the Soriano brothers’ financial profile or investigate Daley’s willingness to back the upstart expansion team. They also did not examine Sick’s Stadium’s condition, the progress of the domed Seattle stadium, and kept the team from receiving much-needed TV revenue. MLB/AL not only handicapped the team from earning TV money, but they also didn’t do their due diligence when it came to the financial conditions of the prospective owners and market. If the American League had to do it all over, Bud Selig’s Milwaukee group would have undoubtedly gotten the team and the Seattle group would have had more time for expansion down the line.

 

Up next, the first of the two concepts!

 

1 Bill Mullins, Becoming Big League: Seattle, the Pilots, and Stadium Politics (Seattle, WA: University of Washington Press, 2013), 52–55; John E. Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954–1967 (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 2012), 252; Kurt Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest,” Columbia: The Magazine of Northwest History 14, no. 2 (Summer 2000): 14–22.

 

2 Rick Allen, Inside Pitch: Insiders Reveal How the Ill-Fated Seattle Pilots Got Played Into Bankruptcy in One Year (Tacoma, WA: Persistence Press, 2020), 45; Mullins, Becoming Big League, 56–57; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest.”

 

3 “Sicks Stadium - History, Photos and More of the Seattle Pilots Former Ballpark,” Ballparks of Baseball - Your Guide to Major League Baseball Stadiums (blog), accessed December 24, 2021, https://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/ballparks/sicks-stadium/.

 

4 Mullins, Becoming Big League, 140–41; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest”; This Is Not an Endorsement of Arson | The History of the Seattle Mariners, a Dorktown Special (Secret Base, 2020), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pkVu6Kw00M.

 

5 Allen, Inside Pitch, 69–70; Andrew Clem, “Clem’s Baseball ~ Sicks’ Stadium,” Andrew Clem’s Baseball Page, April 17, 2019, http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/SicksStadium.html#diag; Mullins, Becoming Big League, 145; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest”; This Is Not an Endorsement of Arson | The History of the Seattle Mariners, a Dorktown Special.

 

6 Allen, Inside Pitch, 45, 77; Mullins, Becoming Big League, 109–11; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest.”

 

7 David Eskenazi, “Wayback Machine: Dewey Soriano Story, Part II – Sportspress Northwest,” SportspressNW.com, April 23, 2013, https://www.sportspressnw.com/2149857/2013/wayback-machine-dewey-soriano-story-part-ii.

 

8 Allen, Inside Pitch, 44, 77, 78, 94; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest.”

 

9 Allen, Inside Pitch, 88, 94–98; John Caldbick, “Seattle, King County, and State of Washington Suspend Lawsuit against Baseball,” History Link.org, February 12, 2013, http://historylink.org/File/10321; Mike Fuller, “Seattle Pilots - History, Chapter 3 of 5,” c 2000, http://www.seattlepilots.com/history3.html; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest.”

 

10 Caldbick, “Seattle, King County, and State of Washington Suspend Lawsuit against Baseball”; Mike Fuller, “Seattle Pilots - History, Chapter 4 of 5,” c 2000, http://www.seattlepilots.com/history4.html; Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest.”

 

11 Schaefer, “PLAY BALL! The Seattle Pilots—Major League Baseball’s First Venture in the Pacific Northwest,” 14.

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  • SFGiants58 changed the title to MLB: The Defunct Saga - Seattle Pilots explanation and Giants/A's Addendum Added

SEATTLE PILOTS A - Sailing into the harbor

 

Seattle-Duck-boat-tours-1.jpg

(Boat tour of Seattle)

 

With the first concept, I operated with the hypothesis of “the Pilots would brand around boats and blue/yellow.” I wanted to modernize their 1969 font and emphasize the italic nature of the design, so I opted to modify SF Fedora Titles (the fan-made recreation of the Indiana Jones subtitle font). It fits the aesthetic of the original while also being a complete character set. 

 

The primary logo is a ship’s wheel with the rope from the US Navy’s insignia (modified) and a baseball with the team monogram. Said monogram bears a resemblance to one of the team’s prototype cap designs (featured alongside a vastly superior road uniform to the actual 1969 design). The tertiary includes the Seattle skyline (from my Mariners concept) and the team’s establishment date.1

 

spacer.png

 

The uniforms feature a simple striping pattern and the quad stripes on the socks. The number font is a basic varsity variant (the same as the Toronto Giants reclamation). I tilted the wordmarks, as I thought it looked a bit better than straight wordmarks. The caps don’t have all of the “captain’s patterns” of the 1969 caps, as I didn’t like that design. 


SEAPilots-A-Homeand-Road.png

 

The alternates include a blue jersey and a recreation of the 1969 Pilots’ home uniform. I made the cap logo look more like the New Era design from that fateful year and traced the laurels from a game-worn Pilots cap. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Alts.png

 

The jacket features white sleeves and the road wordmark. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Jacket.png

 

It's simple, but I think it's a solid modernization of the original look without the excessive "quirks and features." 

 

Up next, the initial and final Pilots concepts!

 

1 Rick Allen, Inside Pitch: Insiders Reveal How the Ill-Fated Seattle Pilots Got Played Into Bankruptcy in One Year (Tacoma, WA: Persistence Press, 2020), 65; Paul Carr, “The Seattle Pilots,” The Seattle Pilots (blog), July 26, 2010, https://ballcapblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/seattle-pilots.html.

 

Edited by SFGiants58
Added a link to a reference picture
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  • SFGiants58 changed the title to MLB: The Defunct Saga - Seattle Pilots explanation/Version A and Giants/A's Addendum Added
3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

SEATTLE PILOTS A - Sailing into the harbor

 

With the first concept, I operated with the hypothesis of “the Pilots would brand around boats and blue/yellow.” I wanted to modernize their 1969 font and emphasize the italic nature of the design, so I opted to modify SF Fedora Titles (the fan-made recreation of the Indiana Jones subtitle font). It fits the aesthetic of the original while also being a complete character set. 

 

The primary logo is a ship’s wheel with the rope from the US Navy’s insignia (modified) and a baseball with the team monogram. Said monogram bears a resemblance to one of the team’s prototype cap designs (featured alongside a vastly superior road uniform to the actual 1969 design). The tertiary includes the Seattle skyline (from my Mariners concept) and the team’s establishment date.

 

spacer.png

 

The uniforms feature a simple striping pattern and the quad stripes on the socks. The number font is a basic varsity variant (the same as the Toronto Giants reclamation). I tilted the wordmarks, as I thought it looked a bit better than straight wordmarks. The caps don’t have all of the “captain’s patterns” of the 1969 caps, as I didn’t like that design. 


SEAPilots-A-Homeand-Road.png

 

The alternates include a blue jersey and a recreation of the 1969 Pilots’ home uniform. I made the cap logo look more like the New Era design from that fateful year and traced the laurels from a game-worn Pilots cap. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Alts.png

 

The jacket features white sleeves and the road wordmark. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Jacket.png

 

It's simple, but I think it's a solid modernization of the original look without the excessive "quirks and features." 

 

Up next, the initial and final Pilots concepts!

 

Ooh, this set's a beaut. Really love the script, and the primary and tertiary logos are beautiful and ingenious. How will the other concepts stack up?

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Merry Christmas! Since I'm in a mood to tie up loose ends, I want to clarify the original teaser image from 2018.

 

Defunct-Teaser2.png

 

All of the designs, save for two, have been featured in this series. The first of my remaining two are my original Kansas City Athletics plan.

 

KCA-Logo-Sheet.png

KCA-Homeand-Road.png

KCA-Alts1.png
KCA-Alts2.png

 

This was from before I did massive revisions to the design, improved the elephant, made accurate 1929-30 throwbacks, and ditched the forest green/yellow-gold for the KC A's.
 

The other unreleased one from that pile is the 2018 Seattle Pilots design. My second design will borrow a lot from this concept, but will be far more in line with the “Seattle Pilots A” concept posted here.

 

I opted for a super-dark green here, along with red and cyan. I wanted to give it that same "old Seattle" feeling I had in Project 32 Pilots and eventual Seattle Rainiers designs. I also used a plane image, with a downright cringe-inducing propellor. One can see the Project 32 influence with the Aachen lettering (well, the University of Wisconsin variant).

 

SEAPilots-Logo-Sheet-B.png

 

The uniforms emphasize the three-color pattern.

 

SEAPilots-Homeand-Road-B.png

 

Alternates feature a red cap and a green jersey with the "S" insignia.

 

SEAPilots-Alts1-B.png

 

The second set of alternates include fauxbacks to the 1955 Rainiers and the 1969 Pilots.

 

SEAPilots-Alts2-B.png

 

The primary jacket features references to the colorway, while the alternate has white sleeves.

 

SEAPilots-Jacket1-B.png SEAPilots-Jacket2-B.png

 

While I like it, there's a lot I would do differently. It wouldn't be a fitting end to this series to roll with the original concept. So, later today, the new concept will debut!

 

Edited by SFGiants58
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On 12/23/2021 at 7:49 PM, SFGiants58 said:

ALASKA, HAWAII, AND MONTRÉAL ATHLETICS - Because why the f--k not?

 

This is my little LOLJK idea because given the 20 proposed relocations and 2 actual relocations of the A's, it wouldn't be surprising if this stupidity happened. It allowed me to have a little fun, especially with the color side of things.

 

Alaska Athletics - trees and the sun

 

I wanted to revisit the Forest Green/Sky Blue/Athletic Gold color scheme for this one, while incorporating the forest motif. For a bit of fun, I emphasized yellow-gold on this design. The "apostrophe s" goes away, because of the city and team name having the same initial.

 

ALKAthletics-Logos.png

 

ALKAthletics-Homeand-Road.png


Hawaii Athletics - Colorfully Classy

 

Using a modified version of my Los Angeles Athletics design, I incorporated the colors and symbols of the Kanaka Maoli - the "native Hawaiian flag" (it is deeply apocryphal and arguably a controversial symbol). It also might be controversial to spell Hawaii as Hawai'i, but I prefer the latter.

 

HAI-Athletics-Logos.png

 

HAI-Athletics-Homeand-Road.png


Montréal Athletics - reskin kin

 

This one is a simple recolor of the elephant, new "Montréal" and "Athlétisme" (an appropriate French translation) scripts, and the template of the alternate Expos concepts. There's no "apostrophe s" due to the language laws in Quebec.

 

MTLAthletics-Logos.png

 

MTLAthletics-Homeand-Road.png


While I like all three of them, I do prefer the Hawaii design. It was a good experiment in balancing colors and doing a cool heraldic design. Now, that leads me to the final Athletics concept I ever want to do for a long time - the compilations of primary logos. road wordmarks, and blackletter insignias!

 

Total-Athletics-Primary.png


(I tweaked the Milwaukee A’s logo to remove the visible knee.)


Total-Athletics-Road-Scripts.png

 

Total-Athletics-Insignia1.png

 

One can see how I got so frustrated with doing concepts about this team throughout the series.

 

Up next, the story and first design of the final concept in The Defunct Saga!

 

 

spacer.png

 

Congrats on finishing the A's! It really is impressive seeing all the different primary logos all in one spot. 

 

And what a fun surprise the LOLz relocations are! Could we see some alts for these guys? A green alt for Hawaii with the red "H" outlined in gold would look fantastic. (Also, I think the Alaska A's road set might work better if the base of the road uniform was light blue instead of gray.)  

 

22 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

SEATTLE PILOTS A - Sailing into the harbor

 

Seattle-Duck-boat-tours-1.jpg

(Boat tour of Seattle)

 

With the first concept, I operated with the hypothesis of “the Pilots would brand around boats and blue/yellow.” I wanted to modernize their 1969 font and emphasize the italic nature of the design, so I opted to modify SF Fedora Titles (the fan-made recreation of the Indiana Jones subtitle font). It fits the aesthetic of the original while also being a complete character set. 

 

The primary logo is a ship’s wheel with the rope from the US Navy’s insignia (modified) and a baseball with the team monogram. Said monogram bears a resemblance to one of the team’s prototype cap designs (featured alongside a vastly superior road uniform to the actual 1969 design). The tertiary includes the Seattle skyline (from my Mariners concept) and the team’s establishment date.1

 

spacer.png

 

The uniforms feature a simple striping pattern and the quad stripes on the socks. The number font is a basic varsity variant (the same as the Toronto Giants reclamation). I tilted the wordmarks, as I thought it looked a bit better than straight wordmarks. The caps don’t have all of the “captain’s patterns” of the 1969 caps, as I didn’t like that design. 


SEAPilots-A-Homeand-Road.png

 

The alternates include a blue jersey and a recreation of the 1969 Pilots’ home uniform. I made the cap logo look more like the New Era design from that fateful year and traced the laurels from a game-worn Pilots cap. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Alts.png

 

The jacket features white sleeves and the road wordmark. 

 

SEAPilots-A-Jacket.png

 

It's simple, but I think it's a solid modernization of the original look without the excessive "quirks and features." 

 

Up next, the initial and final Pilots concepts!

 

1 Rick Allen, Inside Pitch: Insiders Reveal How the Ill-Fated Seattle Pilots Got Played Into Bankruptcy in One Year (Tacoma, WA: Persistence Press, 2020), 65; Paul Carr, “The Seattle Pilots,” The Seattle Pilots (blog), July 26, 2010, https://ballcapblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/seattle-pilots.html.

 


Nice work on the Pilots. I've long felt the original Pilots uniforms wouldn't need much changing for them to look contemporary in the present day. 

 

4 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Merry Christmas! Since I'm in a mood to tie up loose ends, I want to clarify the original teaser image from 2018.

 

Defunct-Teaser2.png

 

All of the designs, save for two, have been featured in this series. The first of my remaining two are my original Kansas City Athletics plan.

 

KCA-Logo-Sheet.png

KCA-Homeand-Road.png

KCA-Alts1.png
KCA-Alts2.png

 

This was from before I did massive revisions to the design, improved the elephant, made accurate 1929-30 throwbacks, and ditched the forest green/yellow-gold for the KC A's.
 

The other unreleased one from that pile is the 2018 Seattle Pilots design. My second design will borrow a lot from this concept, but will be far more in line with the “Seattle Pilots A” concept posted here.

 

I opted for a super-dark green here, along with red and cyan. I wanted to give it that same "old Seattle" feeling I had in Project 32 Pilots and eventual Seattle Rainiers designs. I also used a plane image, with a downright cringe-inducing propellor. One can see the Project 32 influence with the Aachen lettering (well, the University of Wisconsin variant).

 

SEAPilots-Logo-Sheet-B.png

 

The uniforms emphasize the three-color pattern.

 

SEAPilots-Homeand-Road-B.png

 

Alternates feature a red cap and a green jersey with the "S" insignia.

 

SEAPilots-Alts1-B.png

 

The second set of alternates include fauxbacks to the 1955 Rainiers and the 1969 Pilots.

 

SEAPilots-Alts2-B.png

 

The primary jacket features references to the colorway, while the alternate has white sleeves.

 

SEAPilots-Jacket1-B.png SEAPilots-Jacket2-B.png

 

While I like it, there's a lot I would do differently. It wouldn't be a fitting end to this series to roll with the original concept. So, later today, the new concept will debut!

 


Excellent job! I really love that color combination. This is certainly a Major League caliber look. 

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Thanks! Here's the final one, my Christmas gift to the thread!

 

SEATTLE PILOTS B - Taking off from Sea-Tac

 

Seattle-Tacoma-International-Airport.jpg

 

This design goes for a more aviation-related approach, albeit more abstract than the 2018 design. The Forest Green is much lighter (3537 C), while the font is now the simpler SF Fedora Titles. Forest Green also doesn’t touch red in the logos, which allows for a more distinctive look. The pilot’s wings appear in the secondary and tertiary logos. 


SEAPilots-B-Logo-Sheet.png

 

The home and road set features wordmarks with the wing motif, as they’re “taking off.” The sleeve stripes do not feature cyan/sky blue, as I prefer it limited to the wings and socks. The caps have red bills, to tie in with the front numbers and NOB’s.

 

SEAPilots-B-Homeand-Road.png

 

The alternates include a red top (with appropriate red cap) and a green jersey with the road wordmark. The latter has cyan front numbers, as it contrasts more with the green than the red.

 

SEAPilots-B-Alts1.png

 

The second set of alternates include 1955 Rainiers and 1969 Pilots fauxbacks. It’s the one bit of the 2018 design that stayed largely unchanged. I did make the "S" look more like the prototype cap for the '69 set.

 

SEAPilots-B-Alts2.png
 

The jackets are relatively simple, with shoulder inserts on both and white sleeves on the alternate design.

 

SEAPilots-B-Jacket1a.png
SEAPilots-B-Jacket2a.png

 

I do find myself preferring this concept, as it homages the 1969 Pilots while doing its own thing and really maximizing that “old Seattle” feel I like. 

 

How I'm feeling (warning - Tomorrow’s Joe spoilers):

 

Spoiler

Spvm2CG7z15MyZ56RhTjojSvxaFnAh9DxMZfItgY

 

Well, that’s the end of it! It’s been an amazing three and a half years doing this, as I’ve learned so much about the sport’s history, real estate/civic politics, and my own design abilities. Thank you all so much for following, as I’ve loved getting feedback to improve my designs.

 

Up next, some compilations!
 

Edited by SFGiants58
Used translation name for Joe Yabuki’s series
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  • SFGiants58 changed the title to MLB: The Defunct Saga - Seattle Pilots explanation and Versions A, 2018, and B Added

spacer.png

 

Wow, can't believe it. Three and a half years. What a fun ride it's been!


A few stray comments:

- I think I may prefer your 2018 version of the Pilots, but it’s very close. 

- One idea for an addition to this series would be an alternate reality where Houston kept the Colt .45s name. Maybe they had to drop the .45s at some point and rebranded with a horse-themed identity. 
 

- I did hope to see maybe a few more fictional teams, namely the Springfield Isotopes. That's probably the most well-known fictional baseball team outside of the Knights. I always saw them as a sort of multi-verse version of the Astros. You could probably do something fun with a red, black and Simpsons yellow color scheme. Plus, they've just got a great name. 

 

- You're probably planning to do this already, but I'd like to see a compilation sheet for the White Sox  relocations that includes Denver and New Orleans. 

- Random idea for the Pandas: How about a primary logo that repurposes the Cubs’ "angry" bear logo made to look like a panda's face?

 

- I'd still like to see some alternates for the joke A's relocations if possible. 


- Question: If someone comments with a late discovery (as I did with the Denver and NOLA White Sox relocations a few weeks ago) are you open to adding more teams to this series down the line? 
 

Congrats on an amazing accomplishment! It's been an absolute joy following and commenting on this thread over the past three and a half years. Can't wait to see whatever's next! 

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Great work on the Seattle sets.  My favorite is Seattle A.  I do love the primary logo for set B.  I've enjoyed following this series.  I also would be curious to see an alternate history where Houston kept the Colt .45s name and maybe more fictional teams.  I know you'll take a much needed and well deserved break but I would love to see you come back with a new thread.  Maybe, a plausible expansion thread like what has been mentioned for cities that have been in the running, except cities like Portland that you've already covered.

Nashville, Vancouver and others?  If there was a Sports Logo Hall of Fame on this board, you would be in it for sure!  Can't get enough of your work.  Great Job!

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On 12/24/2021 at 12:12 AM, Frylock said:

I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before... the saddle on the elephant for the Portland A’s logo? Instead of the Northwestern stripe, the city of Portland flag:

 

spacer.png

 

It’s probably way too detailed, but it does feature green and yellow...


Now that @Frylock mentions it, I’d love to see your Portland A’s concept with a touch of light blue, similar to how you worked pink into the Vegas A’s. It just makes too much sense. 

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I have to say, I love the font choice for your New Orleans White Sox concept!

The home & away jerseys feel a bit too brass-heavy, which would be fine except for the relative lack of brass on the cap. Perhaps a black number or logo would help.

The color balancing on the main alternates are perfect! That experimental brass jersey is also quite nice, but the Experiment B brass-heavy black jersey feels off.

The Tuscan is also really nice, with the only concern being the away script feeling a tad busy on top of headspoon. The headspoon on that Tuscan alternate with white logos/numbers is really pretty : )

While that "NOLA" diagonal may be a bit messy, "NO" on its own would probably look extremely nice, especially if you have the left side of the O align with the right leg of the N, rather than truly interlocking them.

 

I certainly agree, your idealized Toronto Giants is by the far best of the options. However, you do a good job upgrading the render. I'd be curious to see the "IANT" slide downwards so the "TORONTO" text can nestle between the "G" and the "S."

Also, for the TG monogram logo, it might be cool to have a sorta split-line design to resemble the city flag...

No complaints for the blue/green version; it's cool, strange logo and all!

 

Really fun to see all the versions of the A's side by side! Honestly, since you've contributed the lion's share of it yourself, at this point it wouldn't be too much more for someone else to do the A's in every remaining US state : P

Like the colors for Alaska, but the blue name is a bit hard to read on the away. The logo is solid too, except I'd rather see one of the two A's replaced with something else; perhaps a Big Dipper.

Hawai'i also looks great! The Kanaka Maoli flag may be apocryphal, but my understanding is that the Alia and Puela symbols on its shield are certainly historical, so I don't think they're inherently married to the  green/red/yellow stripes (should you choose to remove those.) That said, the red is a really nice addition to the A's look. Maybe the two i's in "Hawai'i" could be connected at the bottom, despite the 'okina/"apostrophe" in between?

The design for Montreal is pretty much perfect... But regardless of the name's origins, it feels weird to me to think about "the Oakland Athletics" as referring to the general concept of sports ("Athlétisme") rather than a group of individuals, each of whom is "an Athletic..." (i.e. "un Athlétique," "Les Athlétiques..." That's a legit thing in Romance languages, right?) I dunno

 

Anyways, if this series is coming to its finale, it's nice for me to see it end off in Seattle : ) The story of Sicks Stadium disaster was somewhat familiar, but I never knew about the KC bid dragging the Pilots forward two years... Glad to learn about that; I appreciate that writeup!

I like Version A a lot; definitely feels like a natural evolution of the Pilots to me. The ropes on the roundel are a nice touch, and making it a ship's wheel is a great idea! I'd shorten the handles, though. Not necessary, but I imagine that roundel with the skyline instead of the S would look quite nice.

I see you're kinda over it, but of the three Pilots versions, for some reason the 2018 version feels the most well-executed / MLB-ready to me. The propeller doesn't bother me as-is, but it could look super professional in green with just small cyan highlights to define its shape... (easier said than done?) As much as the other versions' font is exciting (and would probably work well for the Sonics), this jersey font/script captures aviation, the PNW, and baseball well for me for some reason.

The shades of Version B are much nicer, and I really appreciate the outline-less text styling with that font. The wings go well with it, but I think they'd feel more at home un-outlined or outlined in green when alongside the scripts. I think this set has the weakest non-cap logos of the three. The winged ball feels odd with the wing inside it; I think a plain S or empty would be better.  The detailed skyline and baseball seams feel disconnected among the very futuristic/geometric wings and font; a more stylized Space Needle on its own and a BiG Brewers-esque ball might work.

For both A & B, it's hard to get on board with a green/red co-dominant look (except that Rainiers fauxback; that's perfect as-is) for my blue and green city, but you do it well. A green/cyan co-dominant look with red accents or green-heavy look with equal cyan/red accents (your 2018 version is closer to this) would probably feel more comfortable to me, but that's just me.

 

Anyways, as others have already said, this series was one for the ages! Contrary to the lengths and sporadic-ness of my nitpicking, it's been really top-tier stuff. Thanks for all the historical drama, the interesting new and old brands, and of course for setting the number of A's concepts world record while making all of them feel fresh and exciting : P

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Happy New Year!

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

I have to say, I love the font choice for your New Orleans White Sox concept!

The home & away jerseys feel a bit too brass-heavy, which would be fine except for the relative lack of brass on the cap. Perhaps a black number or logo would help.

The color balancing on the main alternates are perfect! That experimental brass jersey is also quite nice, but the Experiment B brass-heavy black jersey feels off.

The Tuscan is also really nice, with the only concern being the away script feeling a tad busy on top of headspoon. The headspoon on that Tuscan alternate with white logos/numbers is really pretty : )

While that "NOLA" diagonal may be a bit messy, "NO" on its own would probably look extremely nice, especially if you have the left side of the O align with the right leg of the N, rather than truly interlocking them.

 

Thank you! I thought about going for an "NO." but I've never been the biggest fan of that abbreviation. 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

I certainly agree, your idealized Toronto Giants is by the far best of the options. However, you do a good job upgrading the render. I'd be curious to see the "IANT" slide downwards so the "TORONTO" text can nestle between the "G" and the "S."

Also, for the TG monogram logo, it might be cool to have a sorta split-line design to resemble the city flag...

No complaints for the blue/green version; it's cool, strange logo and all!

 

Really fun to see all the versions of the A's side by side! Honestly, since you've contributed the lion's share of it yourself, at this point it wouldn't be too much more for someone else to do the A's in every remaining US state : P

Like the colors for Alaska, but the blue name is a bit hard to read on the away. The logo is solid too, except I'd rather see one of the two A's replaced with something else; perhaps a Big Dipper.

 

Thanks. It's a reasonable idea to adjust the one "A" to be a more Alaska-specific symbol.

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

Hawai'i also looks great! The Kanaka Maoli flag may be apocryphal, but my understanding is that the Alia and Puela symbols on its shield are certainly historical, so I don't think they're inherently married to the  green/red/yellow stripes (should you choose to remove those.) That said, the red is a really nice addition to the A's look. Maybe the two i's in "Hawai'i" could be connected at the bottom, despite the 'okina/"apostrophe" in between?

 

Thanks! I thought about connecting the letters, but I like the separation of the letters more than a together script.

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

The design for Montreal is pretty much perfect... But regardless of the name's origins, it feels weird to me to think about "the Oakland Athletics" as referring to the general concept of sports ("Athlétisme") rather than a group of individuals, each of whom is "an Athletic..." (i.e. "un Athlétique," "Les Athlétiques..." That's a legit thing in Romance languages, right?) I dunno

 

Yeah, I'm not sure that translation was the best on my part. I'm considering going for Athlétiques in an eventual update (likely in a separate thread).

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

Anyways, if this series is coming to its finale, it's nice for me to see it end off in Seattle : ) The story of Sicks Stadium disaster was somewhat familiar, but I never knew about the KC bid dragging the Pilots forward two years... Glad to learn about that; I appreciate that writeup!

I like Version A a lot; definitely feels like a natural evolution of the Pilots to me. The ropes on the roundel are a nice touch, and making it a ship's wheel is a great idea! I'd shorten the handles, though. Not necessary, but I imagine that roundel with the skyline instead of the S would look quite nice.

 

Thanks. :)

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

I see you're kinda over it, but of the three Pilots versions, for some reason the 2018 version feels the most well-executed / MLB-ready to me. The propeller doesn't bother me as-is, but it could look super professional in green with just small cyan highlights to define its shape... (easier said than done?) As much as the other versions' font is exciting (and would probably work well for the Sonics), this jersey font/script captures aviation, the PNW, and baseball well for me for some reason.

 

Thanks! I really don't know how exactly to fix the propeller, but I think I can refine it a bit more. Using the Version B shades would certainly help. 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

The shades of Version B are much nicer, and I really appreciate the outline-less text styling with that font. The wings go well with it, but I think they'd feel more at home un-outlined or outlined in green when alongside the scripts. I think this set has the weakest non-cap logos of the three. The winged ball feels odd with the wing inside it; I think a plain S or empty would be better.  The detailed skyline and baseball seams feel disconnected among the very futuristic/geometric wings and font; a more stylized Space Needle on its own and a BiG Brewers-esque ball might work.

 

Thanks. I can definitely see the issue with the winged ball and the skyline logo which I think I'll refine in a separate thread. The Pilots are definitely worthy of more exploration into the designs, which I can incorporate back into the series and new compilations. 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

For both A & B, it's hard to get on board with a green/red co-dominant look (except that Rainiers fauxback; that's perfect as-is) for my blue and green city, but you do it well. A green/cyan co-dominant look with red accents or green-heavy look with equal cyan/red accents (your 2018 version is closer to this) would probably feel more comfortable to me, but that's just me.

 

That's totally understandable.

 

On 12/27/2021 at 1:53 AM, vtgco said:

Anyways, as others have already said, this series was one for the ages! Contrary to the lengths and sporadic-ness of my nitpicking, it's been really top-tier stuff. Thanks for all the historical drama, the interesting new and old brands, and of course for setting the number of A's concepts world record while making all of them feel fresh and exciting : P

 

Thank you so much! It's been really nice to interact with all the people here during the series.

 

On 12/26/2021 at 1:59 PM, JerseyJimmy said:

man, this has been fantastic. that last Pilots concept is a banger, especially the home and red alt. what a way to cap this off.

 

Thank you so much!

 

On 12/26/2021 at 10:29 AM, coco1997 said:


Now that @Frylock mentions it, I’d love to see your Portland A’s concept with a touch of light blue, similar to how you worked pink into the Vegas A’s. It just makes too much sense. 

 

Thanks, I think that'll be part of a small spinoff.

 

On 12/26/2021 at 11:33 AM, QCS said:

Incredible! What a ride. Congratulations on finishing and I'm continually impressed with your presentation, detail, and style. Amazing work!

 

Thank you so much!

 

On 12/26/2021 at 4:45 AM, Coiler said:

Congrats on such a great thread full of great uniform concepts!

 

Thanks.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

spacer.png

 

Wow, can't believe it. Three and a half years. What a fun ride it's been!

 

 

Thank you so much!

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

A few stray comments:

- I think I may prefer your 2018 version of the Pilots, but it’s very close. 

- One idea for an addition to this series would be an alternate reality where Houston kept the Colt .45s name. Maybe they had to drop the .45s at some point and rebranded with a horse-themed identity. 
 

- I did hope to see maybe a few more fictional teams, namely the Springfield Isotopes. That's probably the most well-known fictional baseball team outside of the Knights. I always saw them as a sort of multi-verse version of the Astros. You could probably do something fun with a red, black and Simpsons yellow color scheme. Plus, they've just got a great name. 

 

I am thinking of doing fictional teams as their own series.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

- You're probably planning to do this already, but I'd like to see a compilation sheet for the White Sox  relocations that includes Denver and New Orleans. 

 

You'll see it soon!

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

- Random idea for the Pandas: How about a primary logo that repurposes the Cubs’ "angry" bear logo made to look like a panda's face?

 

That might be a good idea, but I've never been a fan of the "angry" bear logo. It just looks too abstract in a bad way. 

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

- I'd still like to see some alternates for the joke A's relocations if possible. 

 

I'm thinking of doing it in a big spinoff thread.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:


- Question: If someone comments with a late discovery (as I did with the Denver and NOLA White Sox relocations a few weeks ago) are you open to adding more teams to this series down the line? 

 

I would be, but that would be after I've stepped away from the series for long enough.

 

On 12/25/2021 at 8:24 PM, coco1997 said:

Congrats on an amazing accomplishment! It's been an absolute joy following and commenting on this thread over the past three and a half years. Can't wait to see whatever's next! 


Thank you so much!

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Now, here are the compilations. These also pull from my first "big" concept series, Project 32. 

 

Athletics - primaries, city wordmarks, and additional insignias

 

Total-Athletics-Primary.pngTotal-Athletics-Road-Scripts.png

Total-Athletics-Insignia1.png

 

I didn't include uniforms for these ones, as it would undoubtedly fry the laptop I've used for this series.

 

Bay Area (San Francisco, Oakland, San José)

 

Total-Bay-Area.png

 

That Oakland A's concept is one I've had in the vault for some time, it'll get its own thread soon.

 

Browns/Orioles

 

Total-Orioles-B.png

 

Carolina/Charlotte

 

Total-Carolina.png

 

Denver

 

Total-Denver.png

 

Les Expos de Montréal

 

Total-Expos-A1.png

 

Expos relocations - no f'n way

 

Total-Expos-No-Way-Relocate-A.png

 

Expos relocations - plausible

 

Total-Other-Locations.png

 

Expos relocations - Virginia

 

Total-Virginia.png

 

Giants

 

Total-Giants-B.png

 

Kansas City

 

Total-Kansas-City.png

 

Las Vegas

 

Total-Las-Vegas.png

 

Milwaukee - the teams

 

Total-MIL-1.png

 

Milwaukee - attempted relocations

 

Total-MIL-A.png

 

New Orleans

 

Total-New-Orleans.png

 

Portland

 

Total-Portland.png

 

Seattle - the Mariners and Pilots

 

Total-Seattle-A.png

 

Seattle - attempted relocations

 

Total-Seattle-B.png

 

Tampa Bay - the 1993 expansion

 

Total1993-Expansion-TBT.png
Total1993-Expansion.png

 

Tampa Bay - renamed teams

 

Total-Renaming-Former-WAS-AL.png

 

Tampa Bay - not renamed teams

 

Total-Tampa-Bay-A1.png

 

Tampa Bay - the Rays

 

Total-Rays.png

 

Texas/OKC

 

Total-Texas-OKC.png

 

Twins (former SeNationators)

 

Total-Twins.png

 

Washington - Senationators, Senators, and Nationals

 

Total-WASA.png

 

Washington - Attempted and successful relocations

 

Total-WASNew-Beta.png

 

White Sox

 

Total-White-Sox-Final.png

 

The Defunct Teams in Completion

 

Total-Defunct.png

 

My Top Ten Favorite Teams

 

Total-Top10.png

 

...and that wraps up the compilations!

 

Qw1C4dR.gif

 

Up next, the bibliography.

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  • SFGiants58 changed the title to MLB: The Defunct Saga - Compilations Added

These compilations are beautiful, even if they did nearly make my computer crash trying to load them. 😂

Man, it's tough to come up with just ten favorite designs in this series because all of them are so fantastic. These seem to be the ones that jump out to me most:

 

01. Milwaukee White Sox

02. Las Vegas Lizards

03. Florida White Sox
04. Los Angeles Angels (1958 version in Lakers colors)

05. Phoenix A's 

06. Tampa Bay/Montreal Dragonflies 

07. Miami Gators

08. Tampa Bay Tarpons (Creamsicle version) 

09. Charlotte Twins (in Hornets colors)

10. San Antonio Rebeldes 

 

Not sure if you saw this on the home page today, but here's an article about how Ted Turner considered renaming the Braves the "Eagles" in 1976. Possible fodder for a future addition to this series?

 

Ted Turner Considered Re-Naming Atlanta Braves In 1976 – SportsLogos.Net News


I like his reasoning that all major professional teams in Atlanta would be named after birds of some kind. 

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11 hours ago, coco1997 said:

These compilations are beautiful, even if they did nearly make my computer crash trying to load them. 😂

Man, it's tough to come up with just ten favorite designs in this series because all of them are so fantastic. These seem to be the ones that jump out to me most:

 

01. Milwaukee White Sox

02. Las Vegas Lizards

03. Florida White Sox
04. Los Angeles Angels (1958 version in Lakers colors)

05. Phoenix A's 

06. Tampa Bay/Montreal Dragonflies 

07. Miami Gators

08. Tampa Bay Tarpons (Creamsicle version) 

09. Charlotte Twins (in Hornets colors)

10. San Antonio Rebeldes 

 

Thanks! I'm so glad you enjoyed those ones.

 

11 hours ago, coco1997 said:

Not sure if you saw this on the home page today, but here's an article about how Ted Turner considered renaming the Braves the "Eagles" in 1976. Possible fodder for a future addition to this series?

 

Ted Turner Considered Re-Naming Atlanta Braves In 1976 – SportsLogos.Net News


I like his reasoning that all major professional teams in Atlanta would be named after birds of some kind. 

 

I saw it and it'll be a part of a future thread on some alternate nicknames.

 

BIBLIOGRAPHY, PT. I - The best books

 

Outside of the hundreds of newspaper articles I cited during this project (of which most are included in my Google Drive folder for accessibility), there were several important books for tracing the trajectories of the successful and attempted relocations. Here are my favorites, in no particular order.

 

9780899508399-us.jpg51lGxXKVfVL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

Bob Andelman and Lori Parsells’ Stadium for Rent: Tampa Bay’s Quest for Major League Baseball (2nd edition published 2015, 1st edition published 1993)

 

This is the definitive account of Tampa Bay Area groups’ pursuit of a MLB team, featuring extensive primary source research, photographic references, sections of interviews from people involved, and extraordinary narrative clarity. It was a crucial resource for this series for collating all of the developments and making it readable in a way that wasn’t tiresome. Sadly, there is no audiobook of it. I would recommend getting Fredrik Knudsen to narrate it, as he’s used to talking about stupid stories in a dignified fashion.

 

81QPGjJ7VKL.jpg

 

Robert F. Garratt’s Home Team: The Turbulent History of the San Francisco Giants (2017)

 

This book primarily covers the history of the Giants in San Francisco, but fills in numerous details about their departure from New York City and their attempted moves to Toronto and Tampa Bay. The details around said relocations are well-presented, especially when placed in concert with Stadium for Rent. It also has an audiobook version, for those who prefer that format.

 

61rnoSSoeLL.jpg

 

John E. Peterson’s The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954-1967 (2012)

 

This book covers both the A’s arrival to and departure from Kansas City, while covering both on- and off-field drama. While it’s not the most exciting read, it was very informative in providing financial figures and establishing timelines for the Athletics as a franchise.

 

81-PRSReGLL.jpg

 

Jonah Keri’s Up, Up, and Away: The Kid, the Hawk, Rock, Vladi, Pedro, le Grand Orange, Youppi!, the Crazy Business of Baseball, and the Ill-fated but Unforgettable Montreal Expos (2015)

 

Jonah Keri is a total piece of crap, but his book is probably one of the best baseball books ever. It gives a comprehensive history of the Expos, featuring both original research and interviews with many of the people involved with the franchise. It also might have helped Tim Raines finally get into the Hall of Fame, which is nice. The book very much take a neutral tone towards assigning blame for the Expos’ demise, providing plenty of socioeconomic context for their downfall.

 

Up next, the full bibliography!

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