MLB: The Defunct Saga - Bibliography Added

[MilSox]

The Monarchs in purple and gold is one of my favorites in the series so far... great going!

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, I never dug the Royals in anything but blue, but I like the KC Monarchs in purple. 

 

On the topic of Norfolk, I'd love to try to dig it up (what if I only imagined it?), but I'm pretty sure I recall a story on potential ownership there wanting to design a battleship-themed park that would just have big gunmetal-grey walls all over the place. I also remember when there was a snag in DC's stadium funding agreement (Jerry Reinsdorf had an infamous line about how MLB owners were looking for a "three-thirds, no-thirds" split between taxpayers and ownership) and there was a non-zero chance the Expos were going to be diverted at the last minute and become the Norfolk Nationals.

 

EDIT: a-ha

http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=1948596

EDIT 2: and the other! I didn't dream of grey metal walls. And in fact, it was dumber than I remembered

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ccpU_51Xue4J:https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-06-10-0406100344-story.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[SFGiants58]

18 hours ago, JG36 said:

Would you ever consider doing a thread where you take ideas from this thread, and say the A’s moved to Kansas City, what would the future Oakland team (or maybe a different expansion team) would look like? Maybe it’s just me that thinks that would be a cool idea...

 

17 hours ago, the admiral said:

Well, I think every relocation concept has been based on some sort of primary-source work that says the move was at least being explored. 

 

I think admiral answered your question there. My speculation is limited to the teams themselves, not the lasting results of teams moving.

 

14 hours ago, coco1997 said:

 

*crosses fingers for Washington Pandas*

 

It'll be that, along with a name that was actually considered for the Nationals.

 

14 hours ago, NicDB said:

The Monarchs in purple and gold is one of my favorites in the series so far... great going!

 

Thanks! 

 

11 hours ago, the admiral said:

Yeah, I never dug the Royals in anything but blue, but I like the KC Monarchs in purple. 

 

Thanks. I can see the attachment to the Royals in blue (even though I've maintained they should have been purple/white or purple/yellow from day one). I even mocked up my ideal blue design.

 

 

I agree with your idea that metallic gold and powder blue shouldn't share a design.

 

11 hours ago, the admiral said:

On the topic of Norfolk, I'd love to try to dig it up (what if I only imagined it?), but I'm pretty sure I recall a story on potential ownership there wanting to design a battleship-themed park that would just have big gunmetal-grey walls all over the place. I also remember when there was a snag in DC's stadium funding agreement (Jerry Reinsdorf had an infamous line about how MLB owners were looking for a "three-thirds, no-thirds" split between taxpayers and ownership) and there was a non-zero chance the Expos were going to be diverted at the last minute and become the Norfolk Nationals.

 

EDIT: a-ha

http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=1948596

EDIT 2: and the other! I didn't dream of grey metal walls. And in fact, it was dumber than I remembered

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ccpU_51Xue4J:https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-06-10-0406100344-story.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

Thanks for the sources! I had heard a bit about the funding snag when researching the New Jersey, Connecticut, and Las Vegas relocation attempts. Also, that stadium plan sounds absolutely bonkers. Seriously, read this:

 

Quote

The theme, which ties into Norfolk's claim as the largest naval base in the world, would feature a battleship-gray color scheme, twin gun turrets on the roof, a Navy fighter jet displayed on the outfield wall, anchor chains and ship's bells at every corner.

 

That's some deep military fetishism! San Diego wishes they were that shameless. Needless to say, I'll probably try to do a camo alternate.

 

Anyway, let's get to Louisville/Chicago!

 

The Louisville Athletics have received the elephant upgrade.

 

Logo Sheet

 

 

Uniforms

 

 

Dugout Jackets

 

 

The Chicago Athletics now use the cleaned-up elephant and features a Chicago flag star on the ball.

 

 

Uniforms

 

 

Dugout Jacket

 

 

I will soon update the original posts to reflect these changes. Up next, it's Seattle and Denver!

[coco1997]

The six pointed star on the Chicago A's primary is a great touch!

 

I didn't think to suggest this when you first posted your Chicago A's concept, but how about adding a tail to the "Chicago" script, so it's consistent with the "Athletics" wordmark?

[_DietDrPepper_]

How bout an updated elephant jersey to Louisville? The updates look great, I forget how nice the pinstripes are for Chicago!

[KittSmith_95]

Love the pinstripes for the Chicago A's.... really shows that Green & White alone can be a very striking combo. 

[SFGiants58]

On 5/31/2019 at 10:52 AM, coco1997 said:

The six pointed star on the Chicago A's primary is a great touch!

 

I didn't think to suggest this when you first posted your Chicago A's concept, but how about adding a tail to the "Chicago" script, so it's consistent with the "Athletics" wordmark?

 

Thanks! I decided that instead of adding a tail to the "Chicago" script, why not adjust the "Athletics" script to match the "Chicago" one? Originals are here.

 

  

 

That's definitely a unique touch among the other A's designs.

 

On 5/31/2019 at 10:54 AM, BellaSpurs said:

How bout an updated elephant jersey to Louisville? The updates look great, I forget how nice the pinstripes are for Chicago!

 

Thank you. You got it!

 

 

On 5/31/2019 at 12:16 PM, KittSmith_95 said:

Love the pinstripes for the Chicago A's.... really shows that Green & White alone can be a very striking combo. 

 

Thanks. Green/white is a fantastic color scheme, which brings me to:

 

SEATTLE ATHLETICS, REDUX - Yellow or white, it's all pretty tight

 

The vintage nature of the press pin elephant really hurt the original concept, IMHO. I upgraded the elephant logo to the new one, which goes far better with the Seattle skyline design. I also replaced the sharp Old English "S" with the one off of my Sacramento A's design (which isn't as hellish to miter). The Market Deco wordmark from my Rainiers uniforms also makes a return, as it's more distinctly "Seattle" than the old one.

 

 

Kelly/Yellow

 

 

Kelly/White

 

 

I've also done a kelly/white version of the cursive script and a kelly/yellow-gold take on the Market Deco wordmark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stay tuned for some Denver upgrades!

[SFGiants58]

DENVER ATHLETICS, REDUX - Miter Madness

 

Aside from adding the new elephant to the old design, I've improved the mitering on the "A's" insignia to be less pointy. This has improved the '90s alternate a bit.

 

 

 

Home and Road

 

 

I went with one-color lettering on the green jersey, to avoid "bleeding."

 

 

The new miters improved the '90s design a bit.

 

 

The jacket now uses the one-color "A's" insignia.

 

 

I'd also like to finally provide a visual representation of Marvin Davis, the man who planned to buy the A's to move them to Denver and remained an MLB-to-Denver guy for much of the 1980s. Here he is, along with Carlos Bremer (a leader behind the Expos-to-Monterrey push), former Las Vegas mayor/mob attorney Oscar B. Goodman (Expos/Marlins-to-Las Vegas), Gregg Lukenbill (the guy behind ARCO Park in Sacramento), Don Beaver (the guy behind the Carolina Twins idea and the Charlotte Knights' current stadium), Edward Bennett Williams (who attempted to move the Orioles to DC), and William "Bill" Collins III (the man behind the Virginia Fury)

 

 

 

 

 

This is peak silver-haired, middle-aged, white gentleman material. I figured I should catch up on getting the faces of the history out there.

 

Speaking of the history, we'll be back with the Expos' attempted moves, this time with a sojourn to the Northwest!

[coco1997]

I really like that tail-less Athletics script! It’s a nice compromise to my suggestion.

 

Looking forward to seeing the Expos’ Portland identity!

[MJD7]

These Kansas City and A’s updates look great! The color schemes do a great job of differentiating the teams. I especially love the updated “Monarchs” wordmark. I also prefer the cursive “Seattle” script in both of its iterations. Nice updates all around!

[Joke Insurance]

Back in 2004, The Washington Post posted an online poll, asking readers what they wanted the now Washington Nationals to be called:  What Should Washington's New Team Be Called? Sept. 30, 2004

 

Here are the nicknames:

 

* Bandits / Beltway Bandits
* Bullets
* Cicadas
* Federals
* Filibusters
* Expos
* Grays
* Monuments
* Nationals
* Patriots
* Senators
* Snakeheads
* River Rats / Dogs

 

@SFGiants58 would you consider doing some concept work on any of those names?

[bcon_731]

On 6/1/2019 at 5:23 PM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! I decided that instead of adding a tail to the "Chicago" script, why not adjust the "Athletics" script to match the "Chicago" one? Originals are here.

 

  

 

That's definitely a unique touch among the other A's designs.

 

 

Thank you. You got it!

 

 

 

Thanks. Green/white is a fantastic color scheme, which brings me to:

 

SEATTLE ATHLETICS, REDUX - Yellow or white, it's all pretty tight

 

The vintage nature of the press pin elephant really hurt the original concept, IMHO. I upgraded the elephant logo to the new one, which goes far better with the Seattle skyline design. I also replaced the sharp Old English "S" with the one off of my Sacramento A's design (which isn't as hellish to miter). The Market Deco wordmark from my Rainiers uniforms also makes a return, as it's more distinctly "Seattle" than the old one.

 

 

Kelly/Yellow

 

 

Kelly/White

 

 

I've also done a kelly/white version of the cursive script and a kelly/yellow-gold take on the Market Deco wordmark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stay tuned for some Denver upgrades!

 

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[The_Admiral]

The A's work well in Denver. The logo is very Hannibal-Crossing-the-Alps.

 

The guy in the lower right looks like he goes to Las Vegas under the pretense of the National Association Of Above-Ground Pool Supply Dealers trade show but then just hangs out at the AVNs and takes lots of hover-hand photos with starlets.

[OnWis97]

You just pointed me to this thread...so I blasted through 40 pages in a hurry.  I won't make too many comments on specifics except to say that the Seattle Rainiers is perfect.  What this thread really shows is that MLB could be very colorful without being tacky.  I know some of the "problem" is franchises that have been around since 1901 or before...I don't want to see the Tigers trying to re-create any of your Tampa Bay Tarpons concepts...but there certainly is (or was) some opportunity for a few teams.

 

And it's funny that whenever the Twins made a threat, it was to a place where "Twins" still worked...

[SFGiants58]

On 6/1/2019 at 8:45 PM, coco1997 said:

I really like that tail-less Athletics script! It’s a nice compromise to my suggestion.

 

Looking forward to seeing the Expos’ Portland identity!

 

Thank you.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 1:51 PM, MJD7 said:

These Kansas City and A’s updates look great! The color schemes do a great job of differentiating the teams. I especially love the updated “Monarchs” wordmark. I also prefer the cursive “Seattle” script in both of its iterations. Nice updates all around!

 

Thanks!

 

On 6/3/2019 at 2:45 AM, Joke Insurance said:

Back in 2004, The Washington Post posted an online poll, asking readers what they wanted the now Washington Nationals to be called:  What Should Washington's New Team Be Called? Sept. 30, 2004

 

Here are the nicknames:

 

* Bandits / Beltway Bandits
* Bullets
* Cicadas
* Federals
* Filibusters
* Expos
* Grays
* Monuments
* Nationals
* Patriots
* Senators
* Snakeheads
* River Rats / Dogs

 

@SFGiants58 would you consider doing some concept work on any of those names?

 

I'll only be doing one of those, due to it's special connection to the city.

 

On 6/3/2019 at 2:01 PM, bcon_731 said:

 

Futurama meme

 

Thanks.

 

On 6/3/2019 at 9:38 PM, the admiral said:

The A's work well in Denver. The logo is very Hannibal-Crossing-the-Alps.

 

The guy in the lower right looks like he goes to Las Vegas under the pretense of the National Association Of Above-Ground Pool Supply Dealers trade show but then just hangs out at the AVNs and takes lots of hover-hand photos with starlets.

 

Thanks! I like the Hannibal vibe as well, even though the elephant species are different, AFAIK. 

 

William "Bill" Collins III really does look like a midlife crisis made manifest, doesn't he?

 

 

"Singular names that refer to emotions are in! THIS IS WHAT THE KIDS LIKE! I'm cool now, right?"

 

On 6/7/2019 at 1:50 PM, OnWis97 said:

You just pointed me to this thread...so I blasted through 40 pages in a hurry.  I won't make too many comments on specifics except to say that the Seattle Rainiers is perfect.  What this thread really shows is that MLB could be very colorful without being tacky.  I know some of the "problem" is franchises that have been around since 1901 or before...I don't want to see the Tigers trying to re-create any of your Tampa Bay Tarpons concepts...but there certainly is (or was) some opportunity for a few teams.

 

And it's funny that whenever the Twins made a threat, it was to a place where "Twins" still worked...

 

Thanks! The Rainiers is a top-five concept for me, as I like the color balance and the region-appropriate design (not to mention how it would get rid of my least-favorite MLB name). The whole "colorful but tasteful" angle has been a big driving force for the series, showing the diverse ways in which the color schemes of the sport could be remarkably less boring. 

 

I found that Twins scenario funny as well! I am curious what you thought of the 1987-2009 Senators/Nationals design, if only for its "uncanny valley" nature.

 

Anyway, for the one-year celebration of this thread, here's the next concept!

 

PORTLAND STAGS – Wish upon a whitetail

 

The Rose City’s recent push for an MLB team (AKA the Portland Diamond Project) has been all the rage on these forums, with the group apparently gaining traction at the Terminal 2 site.¹ However, this is not the first time that Portland has come up for MLB relocation/expansion discussion.

 

The first attempts to bring baseball to Portland involved both the Expos and the Marlins. Rumblings started in about 2002/early 2003, when former Portland Mayor Vera Katz and the Oregon Sports Authority/Portland Baseball Group/Oregon Stadium Campaign (website here) – led by former Pacers GM David Kahn, Drew Mahalic, and Steve Kanter – met with MLB officials in New York. With Portland being the second-biggest market among the many cities listed at 2.86 million people (compared to the first-place 5.9 million of the District of Columbia).²

 

 

(from left: David Kahn, Drew Mahalic, and Steve Kanter - a law professor at the law school branch of my alma mater)

 

These groups were able to lead the charge for Senate Bill 5 in Oregon, which passed in September 2003, allowed for the city to use $150 million of athletes and team executives’ income taxes to fund part of a stadium. This controversial bill went through several phases before its final passing. Around the time of the bill passing, things were looking up for Portland as a baseball destination. If they weren’t going to get the Expos, they could easily get another team.³ The groups even had a variety of sites outlined in their plan (link in the citations).⁴

 

 

However, trouble was brewing within the bid. Local interest among the business community never fully materialized and the group went through internal struggles. By April 2004, Portland was left off of the finalist list for the Expos (DC, Northern Virginia, Norfolk, Monterrey, and Las Vegas). While the Portland forces completed a financing plan to supplement Senate Bill 5 for the $350 million stadium proposal, it did not revive MLB’s interest in the market. Portland, like Las Vegas, had a minor hope spot during the DC City Council’s funding snag. However, that conflict’s resolution put Portland baseball on hold.⁵

 

The Marlins were quick to revive interest, during the extortion proceedings that resulted in Marlins Park’s construction. Portland was one of the most popular speculation sites for baseball to land, with famed Red Sox player/executive Johnny Pesky coming out in support of the initiative. Plans were ready to expand Providence (then PGE) Park to 25,000 seats to accommodate the team, while Marlins’ top brass (e.g., David Samson) toured the groups’ desired sites. However, this interest was merely a ruse to get a stadium deal done in Little Havana. While the Portland Baseball Group would continue informally, interest died down until the recent Portland Diamond Project started in 2017.⁶

 

TL; DR: Hans (Udo Kier doing his usual weird guy schtick, which is appropriate for the movie) as the Portland boosters, and Mike Waters as MLB.⁷

 

 

I’d like to throw a big shout-out to John Hunt of The Oregonian for his beat reporting on the Expos’ relocation saga. His articles were an excellent resource in following the story.

 

Portland gaining either the Expos or the Marlins, had they gotten a more concrete stadium plan, would have probably been beneficial for the league. They could have either given the NL a Pacific Northwest presence or with an AL flip, given Seattle a bit of a breather when it comes to travel time. Having gone to college in the area, I’d have loved to see a game or two. This concept should cover both the Expos and Marlins’ attempts to move to the area, as well as potential moves by a new team (as explained by Craig Cheek, founder of the Portland Diamond Project – although he had some reservations about a name change with the A’s).⁸

 

I’ve long been a fan of the name “Stags” for a Portland team. This is hardly a new name for a prospective Portland team, but it’s one that fits. The whitetail deer (Odocoileus virginianus)
is native to the state and represented on one of the most recognizable signs in the city. Besides, they’d be the only deer team in MLB! Using this picture of a posed whitetail deer and the work of @Section30 (thanks for the help!) on his Saskatchewan Whitetails as a base/inspiration, I crafted a deer logo that’s both dynamic and a little playful.

 

The colors are Forest Green/Sky Blue/Yellow-Gold, my adaptation of the Portland flag. The balance of these colors sets them apart from both the A’s and the Mariners. The primary is the deer head on its own, while the secondary is the cap logo (a modified version of Hanley Pro Block Inline). The tertiary features the deer inside a roundel with the sock stripe pattern and the full team name. EDIT 6/23: I have tweaked the deer to be yellow-dominant, while also lightening the blue, removing the back antler, and adding a blue spot into the ear/new eye shape. Here is a comparison, and here are the original logo sheet render, home & road, alternates one and set two, and the dugout outerwear. 

 

 

The uniform design is fairly traditional, with open type Buinton as the base font for the cursive scripts. The tails have gold inlines, for an extra punch of color. Hanley Pro Block numbers also appear alongside the scripts. The sleeve and pants stripes are B/G/Y/G/B, as the light blue and yellow-gold never touch.

 

 

The alternates include a Sky Blue jersey and a Forest Green one. The green outfit features the “P” insignia, while the blue employs the tertiary patch.

 

 

Additional alternates include a Sky Blue-crowned cap for the blue jersey and a fauxback. Said uniform homages the 1957 Portland Beavers’ cap logo and Cardinals-style wordmark and template My method for this was to simplify the deer from an old Milwaukee Bucks concept of mine and show it leaping over the bat (itself from the Cardinals’ 1940s logo, recolored).

 

 

The jacket uses the home script and blue shoulder inserts.

 

 

While Portland will have to wait to get their team (PLEASE don’t build on speculation, remember what happened to St. Petersburg and arguably San Antonio), I would consider this concept my supposition for what a Portland team could look like. It’s got my favorite name, color scheme, and design style for a Rose City squad! C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, we revisit Northern Virginia, for a little bit of horseplay.

 

 

¹ Zach Spedden, “New Portland Ballpark Renderings Unveiled,” Ballpark Digest (blog), April 11, 2019, http:// https://ballparkdigest.com/2019/04/11/new-portland-ballpark-renderings-unveiled/.

² AP, “Portland Makes Pitch for Expos,” Los Angeles Times, January 26, 2003, https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jan-26-sp-dogportland26-story.html; Population figures from Sales & Marketing Management, “Relocation Revisited,” The Oregonian, January 18, 2004, sec. Sports.

³ John Hunt, “Can You Say Portland Twins, A’s or Marlins?,” The Oregonian, September 14, 2003, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “‘Plethora’ of Potential Baseball Owners - A Consultant Says Potential Owners Are ‘Very Interested’ If Financing Can Be Finalized,” The Oregonian, September 17, 2003, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Enthusiastic Kulongoski Signs Stadium Finance Bill,” The Oregonian, September 25, 2003, sec. Sports.

⁴ Eric Okurowski, “StadiumPage.Com - 2004 Portland Concepts,” Stadium Page, 2012, http://www.stadiumpage.com/concepts/Portland04_R.html.

⁵ John Hunt, “Portland Omitted, but Only from List,” The Oregonian, March 30, 2004, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Stadium Finance Plan Finished,” The Oregonian, August 6, 2004, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Stepping up, Striking Out,” The Oregonian, April 3, 2005, sec. Sports; John Hunt and Erin Hoover Barnett, “Expos Might Be on Road Again,” The Oregonian, December 16, 2004, sec. Sports.

⁶ Stephen Beaven and John Killen, “Big-League Baseball Drive Not Dead, Just Kind of Resting,” The Oregonian, September 1, 2009, sec. Local News, https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2009/08/major_league_baseball_in_portl.html; Charles Elmore, “Stadium Roulette Opening-Day Ritual,”  The Palm Beach Post, April 12, 2006, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Florida Marlins’ Relocation Tour Comes to Portland for ‘Exploring,’” The Oregonian, January 11, 2006, sec. Sports; John Hunt, “Portland’s Prospects Fading for MLB Team,” April 16, 2006, sec. Sports; Phil Rogers, “Rogers: Portland Could Be a Prized Relocation Spot,” ESPN.com, January 12, 2007, https://www.espn.com/mlb/hotstove06/columns/story?columnist=rogers_phil&id=2727901.

⁷ My Own Private Idaho is my favorite movie, something I’ve shared before on the boards. I’ve been waiting for a Portland team to appear to share this .gif (even though this scene is Seattle).

⁸ Primetime 3.12.19 Hour 1/Craig Cheek Interview, accessed June 5, 2019, https://1080thefan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/primetime-31219-hour-1craig-cheek-interview.

 

[NDFreek]

That heritage alternate is beautiful, and I’m loving the word marks. Great work as always!

 

However, the eye and mouth on the primary mark might look better with a few tweaks, but it is still a great package

[The_Admiral]

Really love the color palette, the name, and all the flourishes on the scripts and numbers. I'd like to see more teams try things like that. I guess the only quibble is with a sky blue deer. I know we've all done There Are No Honolulu Blues Lions And Yet a thousand times on this board, but I think it catches my eye because when I think of an animal being incongruously blue, I of course think of Babe the blue ox. I suppose it could be yellow instead, or you could make it a shade of tan/beige that never occurs anywhere else, like the Blackhawks? But it's really good.

[Whittier S]

For the Stags; I find the yellow too jarring, and am wondering how it would look with something closer to Vegas gold.

[coco1997]

Fantastic! Great idea for an identity. Love the color scheme and the scripts. 

[_DietDrPepper_]

That heritage alt is beautiful! Would definitely buy that! The rest is good too! I like the colors