SFGiants58

MLB: The Defunct Saga - Montréal Expos Pt. II B Added ("M-Fleur-de-Lis")

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, neo_prankster said:

If Horace Stoneham had moved the Giants to Minnesota and the Dodgers stayed in Brooklyn, where would Griffith have been able to move the Senators?

Los Angeles, possibly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Discrimihater said:

Los Angeles, possibly.

 

And would the Kansas City A's have come to San Francisco?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the C+C, guys!

 

On 7/12/2018 at 11:23 AM, Cardsblues02 said:

Not a huge fan of the mismatching “W” between the script on the away and the main cap logo. Just a little nitpick. This is what the Nationals should look like. Very clean and professional looking. No random american flag patterns. Looks good.

On 7/12/2018 at 4:08 PM, bleuet said:

everything here is beauty. 

On 7/12/2018 at 4:16 PM, DoctaC said:

As a Nats fan, I can say this upgrade is definitely a great one. While I like the current W, your is cleaner and nicer, and the new primary is sick.

On 7/12/2018 at 4:20 PM, coco1997 said:

I love how the "N" on the Nationals script looks like half of an upside-down Nats' "W." Great stuff!

On 7/14/2018 at 10:05 AM, KRZYBDGRZ said:

Loving the nationals script

12 hours ago, mungojerry311 said:

I'm loving every pixel of this thread so far. Keep it up!

 

Thanks! I had fun making this one, especially in finding the right balance between the Twins and Nationals for the design.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 12:51 PM, CaptainKirkMN said:

You missed the chance to have "I am the Senate" as the first title, in the same post as another line from the prequels.

Other than that, great set!  I like the blending with the Twins and the Nationals.

 

Thanks! "We are the Senate" was my attempt to make the prequel meme plural, since most "I am the Senate" memes keep it in the singular. P.S., the C-3P0 line is from the Auralnauts "abridging" of the Star Wars saga - check it out!

 

On 7/13/2018 at 6:06 PM, Cardsblues02 said:

I think the other roundel logo (the tertiary) would work better as the primary. I really like it. Love the throwback uniform, I think it looks great. The hat you use with it is incredible. Really love it. 

 

This uniform set doesn’t really do it for me because of the navy centric design. Not that it’s bad, because it still looks good. But I would love to see more red. Red base, some kind of red alt cap (non throwback), ect. The Nats do a good job balancing this. You often hear around here about how boring the Indians away uniforms are with little red in them. Thats the vibe this set puts off. Would love to see some more red. But in the end it still looks good and it’s your concept. You’re the expert here! 

 

Thanks! I'm less than keen on using the tertiary as the primary, since I wanted the primary logos to reflect the government buildings of the city (Senators/Nationals). The tertiary is far more civic in nature.

 

I get where you're coming from with the navy-heavy design and wanting more red. I really wanted to push the navy/white/red look for them, as it's my ideal Twins look and keeps them separate from the Red Sox. The red of the 1970s/80s design would be an aberration in a long history of navy-heavy designs. However, if you like the navy/red co-balance, you'll like my alternate take for the team.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 11:33 AM, Carolingian Steamroller said:

I love the new "W" and I am horrified by Griffiths. 

 

 

Thanks! The Griffiths were a nasty group of people, especially in regards to their attitudes on race. Yet somehow, Calvin Griffith got a statue. Ugh.

 

On 7/12/2018 at 11:29 AM, MJD7 said:

That is a beautiful set. Like you said, a perfect blend of Twins & Nationals. My one suggestion would be to maybe try a modernized version of the white front-panel cap for the navy alternate, I feel like that could be a great look. Wonderful job!

 

Thanks! The white front-panel cap on the navy alternate looks pretty decent, but I wouldn't make it a part of the full set.

 

0H90Zfh.png

 

On 7/12/2018 at 10:50 PM, Ted Cunningham said:

I always thought that the N should fit with the curly W. Thanks for the shout-out! Also, I can't remember if I stated as much previously, or just thought it, but I'd wear the hell out of just about all the jackets you've designed.

 

Thanks! Your script really got my design process going for the team. I'm glad you like the jackets!

 

On 7/12/2018 at 12:46 PM, the admiral said:

I like the Senators roundel much more than the Nationals one. Washington, by design, doesn't have a real skyline. It just looks like a big blob with the Capitol and Washington Monument poking out. But I love the overall aesthetic of the uniforms and how they would have evolved from the 1901 Senationators. The lowercase uppercase N is a nice touch because that's sorta how I write my Ns in cursive.

On 7/13/2018 at 3:54 AM, NicDB said:

I actually see your alt W being closer to what they would really use.  I also agree with the sentiment that your DC "skyline" looks like a blob.  You could get away with a straight line.  Or maybe try a logo of the George Washington statue atop the Capitol.  It still features something people associate with Washington DC, but would resonate more with locals.

 

Thanks, guys! I totally see how it looks like a blob. I figured I could simplify the design by just using the Capitol Building outline with the W (akin to this logo, which may or may not be anything the team wore).

 

k9xoghA.png

 

b9SEX8r.png

 

74lmaph.png

 

Thanks @NicDB for the consult on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new roundel is an immense improvement. 

 

Looking forward to the alternate take!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it's time to Twin up!

 

WASHINGTON SENATORS/NATIONALS, PT. II - Twinning it up!

 

tenor.gif?itemid=4220169

 

The year is 1987. The Senators/Nationals want to emerge from their pullover/sansabelt period with a renewed sense of identity. They tell their design firm to create something that balanced traditional baseball aesthetics with a more modern font style. They get pretty much that, albeit with a few hiccups along the way (debates over square and angular slab serifs, matching or non-matching road scripts, etc.). This look popped up at the right time for the team, as they underwent a competitive resurgence right after their debut. However, attitudes on the design soured over time as it got more dated, with minor tweaks happening in the late-1990s to keep the look fresh. By the time the team moved out of RFK to Navy Yard Stadium (completed a bit earlier in this timeline), the team was ready to go full-on retro.

 

Basically, this is my simulation of what would happen if the Senators/Nationals followed the same identity trajectory as the Minnesota Twins (while maintaining a commitment to New Historicism by keeping the changes realistic to the period). While I loathe the 1987/2010-present "Twins" wordmark and the navy/red co-balance (which should be what Cleveland or Boston does), I know that it has a lot of fans. I figured it would be a fun experiment for the team to go all-in on the 1987 Twins-style redesign.

 

PHASE ONE - "I am the Senate!" "I am the Senate" "I am the Senate and so is my wife!"

 

The primary is my attempt to recreate the 1987-2009 Twins' primary logo, complete with the ugly drop shadows (it was harder to "nail" the look that one would imagine). The secondary logo debuted in the late 1990s, featuring the shape of the Washington family's coat of arms and the senator from the 1950s-'60s logo alongside the founding date and the "DC" logo. It was my way of paying homage to the Twins' state logo. The insignias include an underlined "w" and a "DC" meant to emulate the Twins' "TC" logo.

 

R8gFJMw.png

 

The home and road uniforms would undergo a shift in their existence. The 1999 season would see the introduction of nameplates (for realism's sake, because I don't like nameplates in baseball) to the home uniforms, as well as the new secondary patch. The number and NOB fonts are the Twins' classic MLB Block with Serifs. I had to use the road pinstripes, because why the f--k not? I figured that the team would insist on a matching road script instead of the non-matching ones we got in 1987. If Atlanta, Oakland, and the White Sox (sorta) could match wordmarks, then the Senators certainly could follow suit.

 

vOYWX2G.png

 

rjAFG25.png

 

The alternates include one navy top with the "w" logo (for the "W" insignia's importance to the jersey designs of past teams) and a "DC" cap with a contrasting bill. The second alternate is a recreation of the 1959-60 design (with Wilson Varisty numbers, as the Twins wore on their 1960s home uniforms), which would be a means for the team to "test the waters" with a retro revival.

 

nK282Ce.png

 

The dugout jacket employs the "w" logo on the front, while featuring the primary on the sleeve and the "DC" insignia on the back.

 

dyDE1Dr.png

 

The Nationals version should be up soon. 

Edited by SFGiants58
New info with links added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PHASE TWO - Going National!

 

The Nationals version of the concept changes a few of the graphics, most notably using a different secondary with the Capitol Building outline from my main concept alongside the "DC" logo.

 

EDIT: I fixed an error on the logo sheet where I used the incorrect script. The original is here.

 

F0c24g6.png

 

The home and road uniforms follow the same trajectory as the Senators versions, albeit with the name change.

 

C6WKzeD.png

 

aQ4tOxk.png

 

The alternates undergo a minor shift, to account for the new name. I modded my retro "Nationals" script to better match the 1959-60 Senators script. The alternate logo on the throwback uses the "W" from the 1948-52 primary logo. It's a bit for added accuracy.

 

5bAPMDq.png

 

The dugout jacket merely swaps out the sleeve patch.

 

bOYWCEt.png

 

While I'm not keen on the script style for either the Twins or the Senationalators, I figured that it was an excellent exercise in both New Historicism and script-making (using Liebe as a guide). Losing the symbolism of the underlined "win" in "Twins" is a bit iffy, but I still think the design seems reasonable for the time and would be an appropriate change-up of the Senators/Nationals' aesthetic. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, what if the Griffiths went out west?

Edited by SFGiants58
Logo Sheet error corrected

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see the interlocking DC's resemblance to the Twins' TC, but I like it anyway.  It looks very streamlined.  I also know you're not a fan of the TC logo, so I guess it works out.

That underlined W cap insignia is amazing!  I'm one of the few Twins fans who likes the lowercase m, because of the success the Twins had when it was most prominent.  Also, it made a cameo of sorts in one of my favorite movies.

I also really like the navy Nationals alternate.  I loved the Twins' navy alts, and wished I could get a logo-on-the-side style for one of them.

Could I see what that uniform looks like with the DC logo instead of the W?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The '80s Twin-ified Nats and Senators look great! I really like the interlocking "DC" logo.

 

Really curious to see what the next team is...That magenta and gold color scheme looks mighty intriguing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, this definitely isn't my favorite era of Twins uniforms (as much as I've grown to dislike the gold-trimmed look, I still think it's an upgrade over the Dome set), but you did about as much with it as you could. The "W" and "DC" logos are both super creative transformations. Looking forward to what you have next!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm guessing next up is the Senators becoming the Angels...and the team that would've been the Angels instead becomes the Hollywood Stars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is so unsettling to look at (mainly because I have an irrational hatred of the '87 Twins look), but so, so good.

The upside down M truly makes this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Branching off of discrim's suggestion there'll probably be room for the St. Louis Browns going to LA since that move was thwarted by Pearl Harbor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the interlocking DC, but for this to truly look like an alt universe's Twins, you need to use the Wishbone C.

 

Still, these are great concepts. That upside down M is very clever.

 

On 7/17/2018 at 3:31 PM, Discrimihater said:

So I'm guessing next up is the Senators becoming the Angels...and the team that would've been the Angels instead becomes the Hollywood Stars?


Maybe for a couple years before they moved to Anaheim and became the California Stars.

Which makes a lot more sense than California Angels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2018 at 1:55 AM, CaptainKirkMN said:

I really don't see the interlocking DC's resemblance to the Twins' TC, but I like it anyway.  It looks very streamlined.  I also know you're not a fan of the TC logo, so I guess it works out.

That underlined W cap insignia is amazing!  I'm one of the few Twins fans who likes the lowercase m, because of the success the Twins had when it was most prominent.  Also, it made a cameo of sorts in one of my favorite movies.

I also really like the navy Nationals alternate.  I loved the Twins' navy alts, and wished I could get a logo-on-the-side style for one of them.

Could I see what that uniform looks like with the DC logo instead of the W?

 

Thanks! I really like underlining the "w," as its emulates the underlining of the "Twins" script (highlighting "win"). The uniform doesn't really work as well with the "DC," but I can see the appeal.

 

fwWs5c6.png

 

On 7/17/2018 at 1:46 PM, coco1997 said:

The '80s Twin-ified Nats and Senators look great! I really like the interlocking "DC" logo.

 

Really curious to see what the next team is...That magenta and gold color scheme looks mighty intriguing.

On 7/17/2018 at 2:54 PM, MJD7 said:

Yea, this definitely isn't my favorite era of Twins uniforms (as much as I've grown to dislike the gold-trimmed look, I still think it's an upgrade over the Dome set), but you did about as much with it as you could. The "W" and "DC" logos are both super creative transformations. Looking forward to what you have next!

On 7/17/2018 at 6:27 PM, ChicagoOakland said:

This is so unsettling to look at (mainly because I have an irrational hatred of the '87 Twins look), but so, so good.

The upside down M truly makes this.

 

Thanks! I really do not like the Metrodome-era look. It's dated, has an indistinct color balance, and is fairly generic. However, it was not that tough to morph it into a set for the Senationalitors (which, is a bit of a testament to its generic-ness). I like doing uncanny valley-style concepts like these, it's a bit of my inner @robbman21 showing up.

 

On 7/17/2018 at 3:31 PM, Discrimihater said:

So I'm guessing next up is the Senators becoming the Angels...and the team that would've been the Angels instead becomes the Hollywood Stars?

22 hours ago, LMU said:

Branching off of discrim's suggestion there'll probably be room for the St. Louis Browns going to LA since that move was thwarted by Pearl Harbor.

 

Well, you guys will see! ?

 

15 hours ago, NicDB said:

I like the interlocking DC, but for this to truly look like an alt universe's Twins, you need to use the Wishbone C.

 

Still, these are great concepts. That upside down M is very clever.

Maybe for a couple years before they moved to Anaheim and became the California Stars.

Which makes a lot more sense than California Angels.

 

Thanks! The Wishbone C really adds something to the design. I like it! The reason I didn't go with it initially was that I figured no vestigial logos would remain, unlike the Twins' 1987 redesign. I also wanted to develop a Twins-style "C" for an upcoming attempted relocation, so it was the perfect excuse to unveil it. It'll be perfect for when/if I do a simulation of the Twins' current mess of an identity (at least the Metrodome-era set was cohesive).

 

SYfBqyc.png

 

Up next, time to go west!

 

giphy.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, I think I prefer the original "DC" logo. It's nice to see the wishbone design, though. 

 

Ready to go west!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOS ANGELES ANGELS (FORMER WASHINGTON SENATORS/NATIONALS or expansion team) - It's time to (Jack Kent) Cooke!

 

One important twist in the Senators/Nationals relocation story is that the Griffiths originally considered moving out west. As this Hardball Times article states:

 

Quote

After the Browns became the Orioles in the mid 1950s, the Senators had to share the region. Around that time, non-stop cross country flights made the possibility of major league baseball in California a reality. With Senators patriarch Clark Griffith dead, his nephew took over the team and had images of West Coast glory, glamour and riches dancing in his head.

 

The city of Los Angeles began to court the Senators. The fastest-growing city in the country was going to be a Senators city. The West Coast would go crazy for them. And the courtship continued during the 1956 World Series in Brooklyn. However, when Walter O’Malley got wind that Los Angeles officials were in town, he let them know that his Dodgers would consider Los Angeles as an option in case their stadium proposal fell through.

 
Los Angeles officials saw that they had a chance to bring in a glamorous franchise with superstars. Instead of bringing in Senators like Herb Plews and Jim Lemon, they could import Duke Snider and Pee Wee Reese.1

 

Calvin Griffith dreamed of going out west, only to be turned back by officials who wanted a team that wasn't a flaming trash heap. However, what if the move went through, and Griffith got an expansion team to join him out west?

 

I reasoned that the team would have completed the move/expansion process by 1958 (then a revolutionary prospect), changing their name to the traditional PCL moniker of "Angels" and adopting the  I also reasoned that Griffith wouldn't have found the LA officials nearly as accommodating as O'Malley did, seeing as how the team blew chunks and didn't have O'Malley-level cash flow. After shacking up for a few years in Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum while trying to build a stadium, Griffith got fed up. In 1964, he sold the team to a very certain Canadian businessman with a knack for baseball:

 

Jack_Kent_Cooke_circa_1955_(cropped).jpg

 

Enter Jack Kent Cooke, the most recent owner of the International League's Toronto Maple Leafs. He was a member of the Continental League in our timeline, so it would make sense that he'd want to get in on owning a major-league team.2 With the Lakers, Angels, and (soon) Kings in tow, he set about crafting a sports brand for a complex in Inglewood. It would include an arena (the LA Forum) and a baseball stadium (Angel Stadium, albeit in Inglewood and not Anaheim). The teams' colors would all be Forum Blue (purple) and Gold, and their branding would share fonts. Although Cooke would eventually sell the team in the 1970s, they would go on to have success with his identity package and carry it over through the years with minor modernization tweaks throughout. 

 

If you're wondering how the expansion version of this would play out, just replace Calvin Griffith with an expansion group from LA. This scenario would also work with the 1961 AL Angels, with Cooke moving the team to Inglewood instead of Gene Autry and Walt Disney shifting to Anaheim (for more info about the "Orange Curtain," read Lisa McGirr's Suburban Warriors). 

 

Basically, this was my attempt to merge bits of the Lakers, PCL Angels, and AL Angels into a cohesive identity. The primary brings together bits of the Angels' vintage logos, with the diamond, ball, and wings. The secondary/cap insignia homages the PCL Angels' cap logo, with a halo and in the italicized "Showtime" font (created by Conrad). The roundel acts as a tertiary.

 

upppYjL.png

 

The home/road uniforms stay pretty simple, yet do plenty to showcase the purple/yellow color scheme. The wordmarks use the Showtime font, while the fonts include MLB Block with Serifs (like the Twins, one of the few Senationalators bits left in the identity) and varsity serif NOB's. I drew a lot of inspiration from this Lakers jacket (thanks for finding it, @Lights Out) in crafting the wordmarks. The sock stripes are off of my AL Angels concept, while the sleeve/pants stripes come from the Philadelphia A's concept earlier in the thread.

 

H0q6hEh.png

 

The alternates allude to the PCL Angels' waffle weave shoulder stripes, albeit shrunken to add NOB/wordmark space and paired with contrasting stripes. I reasoned that it was a modernization/taming of an experimental 1970s design. The yellow version uses a yellow-crowned cap and yellow socks (with the stripes of the Lakers' old shorts panels), while the purple variant employs the "LA" logo as a crest (akin to  several  PCL Angels uniform templates). The yellow alternate also uses the tertiary on the sleeve.

 

8lTQ6MW.png

 

The second set of alternates includes a yellow-billed cap and an homage to the 1942 and 1935 Angels' uniforms, with the navy/red of the Senationalators (crests were also a big part of the Sens/Nats identity, so it works as a tribute to them). The multi-colored interlock design is off of the Angels' later cap insignias, while the socks are off of this uniform.

 

KtAUBTs.png 

 

The main jacket is purple with yellow/white/yellow shoulder stripes and the nickname wordmark. It also has trim stripes meant to accentuate each team color. The heritage jacket is a Braves-style design, albeit with the wordmark from my NL Angels (former Dodgers) concept and creme replacing white.

 

yVPPDF8.png 1fS56gt.png

 

I love the whole "Jack Kent Cooke in LA" aesthetic, and it was pretty fun to translate it into a baseball design that featured bits of the AL Angels' identity. It also provided me a way to allow the relocated Sens/Nats to renew themselves in a new location, much like what happened to the Orioles and Rangers. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, let's go a bit northwards for the other landing spot of the Senationalators/AL expansion team.

 

1Paul Francis Sullivan, “The Franchise Moves That Almost Happened | The Hardball Times,” The Hardball Times, June 21, 2011, https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/the-franchise-moves-that-almost-happened/.

2“UPI Focus: Jack Kent Cooke Dies,” UPI, April 6, 1997, https://www.upi.com/Archives/1997/04/06/UPI-Focus-Jack-Kent-Cooke-dies/1196860302800/.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, definitely get a tradition laden vibe, almost like the cities basketball team, the Los Angeles Lakers. Love the primary, classic logo. The getaway uniform is great. My favorite set yet! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic. Simply amazing work! I love the purple/gold scheme and really wish this had happened instead of the mess of Los Angeles/California/Anaheim Angels, occasionally of Anaheim. Very excited to see what's next. I'm thinkings either San Francisco/Oakland or Seattle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.