SFGiants58

MLB: The Defunct Saga - Montréal Expos Pt. III Added ("eMB" fixed)

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Great catch on the A @SFGiants58

 

I love the Yellow, but the green isn't popping like I want it too. It's not your fault, it's the colour itself.

Great logo of the front on elephant and the blue Dugouts.

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NEW YORK (BASEBALL) GIANTS, PT. 1 - Gotto Makes a Giant Contribution

 

Ah yes, it's time to do my favorite team in the previous incarnation! When trying to assess why the Giants left New York City, one can point to a variety of factors. These factors included, but were not limited to:

 

1. The poor condition of the Polo Grounds, due to a lack of funds (the team and stadium rentals were Horace Stoneham's only asset) and hasty construction of the building.

2. Changes in transportation necessitated the need for larger parking lots. Unfortunately for the Giants, much of the land was taken up by Robert Moses' (I have yet to read Power Broker, which I'm hoping to rectify soon) housing projects and other plans. Moses eventually planned to tear down the Polo Grounds in 1962 (one the Giants' lease was up), with speculation about moving them into Yankee Stadium (the Flushing Meadows site wasn't in the works just yet).1 

3. The team spent the post-WWII period in a bit of a freefall, with many poor finishes throughout the time (aside from the 1951 pennant and 1954 World Series). 

4 (and the biggest one, IMHO). Demographic changes in Harlem, the Polo Grounds' Manhattan neighborhood, ensured that the Giants would not be viable in the long run. The Depression and World War II had a marked impact on the area, with many wealthy white residents leaving the area (for both economic and racist reasons - "White Flight"). Due to the increasingly poor conditions of the neighborhood (due to neglect from government programs and a lack of legitimate employment options for many of the African-American and Latin American residents), crime increased.2 With fewer local fans having disposable income for games or a willingness to walk within the "sketchy" area (one created by both racism and apathy), attendance declined. This is the factor that drove the other ones (renovations, transport, competition, etc.). Stoneham believed that fans would feel safer if they could drive from the suburbs to the stadium, but the lack of parking prevented that.

 

TL;DR: This .gif, but with Son Goku as socio-economic/competitive factors and Frieza as the New York Baseball Giants.

 

tumblr_n7329ks7e41qfbz1so1_500.gif

 

However, what if the move didn't go through? What if the team became the Yankees' tenants or found a way to build a Manhattan stadium, set up shop at Flushing Meadows (in the unlikely event that the Dodgers stayed in Brooklyn), or pre-empted the Football Giants by heading to New Jersey? What would these baseball Giants look like?

 

When setting out on this project, I figured that the baseball Giants would not look all that different from the current San Francisco squad. I tried to approach their New York incarnation from the same angle as the team's 2000 redesign, tastefully updating the 1950s/60s uniform set. However, I wanted to incorporate a bit of the Mets' fantastic identity into the design (outside of the "NY," sourced from my previous Mets concept). So, I reasoned that the baseball Giants would want a new primary logo to celebrate a "revival" of sorts, one designed by a very certain Ray Gotto.

 

The new primary is pretty much be the same as the Mets' classic logo, albeit with the Brooklyn elements obscured (e.g., the Williamsburgh Savings Bank Building no longer features, done by using the post-digitization version of the logo) and the bridge being a general suspension bridge (maybe the George Washington Bridge?). The Giants' one-color wordmark is at the center. The tertiary minimizes the primary to a smaller design, with both the cap insignia and the 1883 establishment date. The wordmark font is Ocean Beach Major with modifications, as it's a fantastic modernization of the Giants/Pirates' font style.

 

Wq5j7QC.png

 

The uniforms are pretty much the same as my San Francisco Giants concept, but with some notable differences. The number font and the NOB's/white-base home uniforms are off of my Seals/retro Giants concept, while the new primary logo resides on the sleeves. I kept arched wordmarks, as the logo implied that the Giants are named after the giant skyscrapers of the city. Arching does a better job of invoking that compared to arc-ed wordmarks (which work in San Francisco, with the Giants referring to the "giant" bridges of the city - my flimsy rationalization of the name).

 

ekT3DMv.png

 

The alternates bear a great similarity to my old Giants concept as well, with an orange-billed cap paired with an orange top and a black alternate that has the cap logo as an insignia.

 

WcfyAVH.png

 

The second set of alternates pairs the orange-billed cap with the home uniform and contains the throwback to 1933 from my previous concept (featuring @Gothamite's preferred "NY"). It's "different enough" from the current set that it'd work.

 

75kHdx1.png

 

The dugout jacket is an update of my SF Giants jacket, albeit with the new primary logo and the "NY" on the back. I just love that vintage cursive script.

 

MN4jWkf.png

 

It's a pretty simple concept, emulating the Giants' 2000 redesign while incorporating a few Mets-like elements. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, let's take that Mets influence a little further.

 

1Robert F. Garratt, Home Team: The Turbulent History of the San Francisco Giants (Lincoln: U of Nebraska Press, 2017), 3-9; Stew Thornley, “Polo Grounds (New York) | Society for American Baseball Research,” Society for American Baseball Research, accessed June 27, 2018, https://sabr.org/bioproj/park/58d80eca.

Michael Javen Fortner, Black Silent Majority: The Rockefeller Drug Laws and the Politics of Punishment (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2015), 24-27; Federico Ribes Tovar, Lolita Lebrón, la prisionera (New York: Plus Ultra Educational Publishers, 1974), 93.

Edited by SFGiants58
Added the dugout jacket.

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The update to the green alt is a huge improvement! Great job.

 

The Giants also look fantastic! Something about them feels very “New York.” This set is probably the easiest one to visualize actually happening so far. The logos and every uniform combination are great.

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4 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

(I have yet to read Power Broker, which I'm hoping to rectify soon)

 

I find it helps to take a cross-country train trip or flight where it's just you and the book and there's no way out. 

 

I like the A's and Giants stuff but I'm not so sure on the tailed Phila script. I think the tail has a finality to it that doesn't lend itself to an abbreviation. I like it in all-caps blackletter a lot, though.

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The Giants look excellent! Pretty much how I would expect them to look today had they never left Manhattan. The tertiary in particular is really nice. 

 

I do wonder how they'd look in pinstripes, though maybe you're saving that for the alternate take...

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5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

 

That's a gorgeous concept.

 

My one minor quibble is that the primary logo now has a lot of black space in it, but I may get used to that.

 

5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

The uniforms are pretty much the same as my San Francisco Giants concept, but with some notable differences. The number font and the NOB's/white-base home uniforms are off of my Seals/retro Giants concept, while the new primary logo resides on the sleeves. I kept arched wordmarks, as the logo implied that the Giants are named after the giant skyscrapers of the city. Arching does a better job of invoking that compared to arc-ed wordmarks (which work in San Francisco, with the Giants referring to the "giant" bridges of the city - my flimsy rationalization of the name).

 

Good call on the arching.

 

I also have a flimsy rationalization of the name in SF.

 

MuirWoods_iStock_000024812393Large.jpg

private-tour-of-muir-woods-sausalito-and

 

But I like yours too.

 

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New York looks great! Kinda curious if the NFL team would still be the giants then. The A’s have also looked fantastic, keep up the good work!

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2 hours ago, BellaSpurs said:

New York looks great! Kinda curious if the NFL team would still be the giants then.

 

I don't see why not - we had two "St. Louis Cardinals" teams until the spring of 1988.

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And we still have "The New York Football Giants" even without the baseball team.

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Not bad... certainly how I'd imagine the Giants looking if they'd never left New York.  I think adding a white outline to the GIANTS wordmark on the logo might solve the black space problem that @Gothamite is referring to, but that's about the only critique I have of this.

Can't wait for Minnesota!

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Thanks, guys!

 

On 6/27/2018 at 8:04 AM, MJD7 said:

The update to the green alt is a huge improvement! Great job.

 

The Giants also look fantastic! Something about them feels very “New York.” This set is probably the easiest one to visualize actually happening so far. The logos and every uniform combination are great.

On 6/27/2018 at 9:39 AM, coco1997 said:

The Giants look excellent! Pretty much how I would expect them to look today had they never left Manhattan. The tertiary in particular is really nice. 

 

I do wonder how they'd look in pinstripes, though maybe you're saving that for the alternate take...

 

Thanks! I figured that the font and colors gave them a very "vintage New York" feeling. While pinstripes won't figure into the alternate take (I'm not a big fan of them for the Giants/Gothams - especially when black/orange really didn't overlap with pinstripes that much), they'll figure into a mini-alternate take after I get the first one out of the way.

 

On 6/27/2018 at 8:41 AM, the admiral said:

 

I find it helps to take a cross-country train trip or flight where it's just you and the book and there's no way out. 

 

I like the A's and Giants stuff but I'm not so sure on the tailed Phila script. I think the tail has a finality to it that doesn't lend itself to an abbreviation. I like it in all-caps blackletter a lot, though.

 

Thanks! That dive-in process was the only way I completed Roosevelt's Lost Alliances and Kill Anything that Moves

 

I can see where you're coming from on the script, but the full "Philadelphia" wouldn't really work. I was unsure about the all-caps, but I think it works really well!

 

On 6/27/2018 at 10:43 AM, BellaSpurs said:

New York looks great! Kinda curious if the NFL team would still be the giants then. The A’s have also looked fantastic, keep up the good work!

On 6/27/2018 at 1:35 PM, Gothamite said:

I don't see why not - we had two "St. Louis Cardinals" teams until the spring of 1988.

On 6/27/2018 at 2:52 PM, the admiral said:

And we still have "The New York Football Giants" even without the baseball team.

 

Thanks! I figured that the baseball and football Giants would still keep their names, maybe even sharing in the Meadowlands stadium complex (Arrowhead style), building a multipurpose stadium together (sorry, Jets), or the Maras buying the baseball team (Sporting New York Giants?). 

 

On 6/27/2018 at 10:01 AM, Gothamite said:

 

That's a gorgeous concept.

 

My one minor quibble is that the primary logo now has a lot of black space in it, but I may get used to that.

 

 

Good call on the arching.

 

I also have a flimsy rationalization of the name in SF.

(Muir Woods)

But I like yours too.

 

On 6/27/2018 at 6:47 PM, NicDB said:

Not bad... certainly how I'd imagine the Giants looking if they'd never left New York.  I think adding a white outline to the GIANTS wordmark on the logo might solve the black space problem that @Gothamite is referring to, but that's about the only critique I have of this.

Can't wait for Minnesota!

 

Thanks, guys! I totally get the Muir Woods justification for the name.

 

I've mocked up the logo with a white outline, which I find myself rather liking! I also tried out white outlined in orange on an earlier iteration (better fitting the team's colorway), but I really didn't like it.

 

J5cpPB4.png ZhfqHlM.png

 

I'll get the full update up after the alternate take/its variants are done.

 

NEW YORK GOTHAMS, PT. II - Test Your Met-tle

 

The Mets have one of my favorite identities in all of Big Four sports. The colors and the history behind them, the logo set, and the uniforms are all fantastic to me. It kind of bummed me out knowing that the Mets would never have come into being if the Giants, Dodgers, or both stayed within the New York Metro. However, the Giants' history provided me a way to "Met" them up.

 

The team's original nickname was "Gothams," which stuck around from 1883-84. Owner/manager Jim Mutrie apparently renamed the team "Giants" following a victory against the Phillies in 1885, which has stuck around since (inspiring the name of a certain American Football team). However, what if Mutrie never gave them the name, and "Gothams" stuck around?

 

 

I kept black/orange, since the Dodgers' existence would preclude the team using royal (even with orange). The first big part of this concept was to incorporate the Giants' vintage cursive script into the Mets' script style. I tried placing it in the Mets' roundel, but it looked too small/awkward. I also opted to fuse the Gotto New York skyline with a home plate design, making for a better backing shape. The tertiary logo remains from my first concept.

 

yww0AQK.png

 

The home/road set features a set of dual striping on the sleeves and the qui-stripe pattern from my Mets alternate take. The home script features the "G" from the vintage "Giants" script, while the road script is my modded 1987 Mets design. The primary logo is on the sleeves. I figured that the script designs fit together and brought an appropriately Mets-ish touch to the design, without going full Mets.

 

GfZev2v.png

 

The alternates feature a black jersey with the home script and an update of an old Mets alt I made. The 1916-style windowpanes are a fantastic look. The tertiary is on the sleeve and the cap has a creme crown.

 

zNZfUYN.png

 

The dugout jacket is a modded version of my Mets jacket, with the primary logo swapped on the sleeve.

 

vmhnIBO.png

 

It's a nice way to bring some Met-like qualities into the Giants identity. Also, since "San Francisco Gothams" just sounds weird, let's just say the team would "Seal the Deal" upon moving.

C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, a few variants on this guy!

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I definitely like the orange GIANTS wordmark with the white outline better too.

Can't say there's a single thing I don't like about the Gothams.  Love that you connected the classic NY Giants wordmark with the Mets New York script.  Genius!

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The Gothams is a great name! My only suggestion is to lose the white outlines on the alternate, similar to how your NY Giants black alternate has none. I think it would look much cleaner without them. 

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Thanks, guys! Here's an update of the Giants with the white outline on the logo (thanks, @NicDB, the wordmark no longer gets lost in the stitching or blends with the bridge):

 

J5cpPB4.png

 

RwgzRbF.png

 

UPvEjOT.png

 

F022A68.png

 

3Ulw5Ju.png

 

Here are the Gothams without the white outline on the script in black (which, BTW, looks a lot cleaner - thanks @coco1997 - no outline works here because there are fewer competing elements in the logo).

 

mkvbKnp.png

 

S4Xfp3b.png

 

5EIx6Ey.png

 

FJZuaCU.png

 

A few more variants will come soon!

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I would suggest thickening up the orange plate border and maybe toning down the back stroke around the Gothams wordmark.  Right now, they seem like they're "fighting" for attention.

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Maybe it's my Mets bias, but the Gothams are my favorite you've done so far. I can totally see them gaining a reputation as the "bad boys" of New York in comparison to the Yankees.

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22 hours ago, Jimmy Lethal said:

Maybe it's my Mets bias, but the Gothams are my favorite you've done so far. I can totally see them gaining a reputation as the "bad boys" of New York in comparison to the Yankees.

 

Thanks! That's a bit of what I was going for here. I even thought about designing a "Mr. Gotham" to go with the design, but I ruled it out.

 

Anyway, here's a little rejigging of the outlining/keylining (thanks @MJD7 and @NicDB).

 

tBuwj34.png

 

s867SIK.png

 

u9EIqVp.png

 

NjBL3uI.png

 

NEW YORK GOTHAMS, PART II-B - Metropolitan Madness

 

My original plan was to use royal/blue, for an exceptionally Mets-like identity (which had precedent for the baseball Giants). Here is the concept in that proposed color scheme.

 

m4AWlxC.png

 

m3LvUnH.png

 

6aj4ndj.png

 

5hJQltW.png

 

I've also done two versions based around the Mets' template (pinstripes at home, placket on road). This can also be my "What if the Mets chose the other old nickname of the Giants?" concept.

 

on8fdg8.png

 

D5wnrfe.png

 

Finally, here's my Giants' "New York" wordmark on my Mets concept. Why I love the Tuscan on an arc, the modified arched Giants/Pirates font looks fantastic.

 

AhZucwB.png

 

C+C is appreciated, as always! The Giants of Minneapolis, Minnesota (part of the Twin Cities) will be up soon!

Edited by SFGiants58
Fixed the images - used incorrect export.

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The Gothams look equally fantastic in blue and orange.

 

Looking forward to the Minneapolis Giants next! 

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Impressive work on the "What If?" New York Baseball Giants. Also, great job with the New York Gothams concepts, especially the one with the Mets colors.

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