MLB: The Defunct Saga - Bibliography Added

[Blindsay]

Nice work. Maybe do it modern twins style?

[MilSox]

Not bad for what it is. But I seriously doubt they'd keep the Twins name if they moved. Especially not if they moved to an area called the Piedmont Triad.

 

Might we see a Carolina Triads concept?

[sky1324]

8 hours ago, NicDB said:

Not bad for what it is. But I seriously doubt they'd keep the Twins name if they moved. Especially not if they moved to an area called the Piedmont Triad.

 

Might we see a Carolina Triads concept?

Winston-Salem itself has been known as the "Twin City" and has had baseball teams named the Twins in the past referencing the "twin cities" of Winston and Salem that merged to form the current city, so it's possible they would've kept the name, but the whole proposal was garbage and seems to have hurt the Carolinas' prospect of pro baseball for a while.

 

Anyway, great work as always! Clever use of the Twins name to reference both North and South Carolina (something I had, somehow, never thought of)! I'm sure I'd be all over any merch if this team actually did exist.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, there's a lot to like except for the NCSC cap and the general premise of a shared Winston-Salem/Greensboro team in the majors. The Carolinas as twins is a clever way to keep the name and refashion it, and I like the underlined C and more traditional ovoid C equally. Overall, I'm glad we didn't lose Minnesota, and especially glad the Twins didn't become the Carolina MaxxHoggz or some other '90s name as ghastly as "Virginia Fury."
 

Haha, look at the map where the stadium would be! Boww-ba-bowwmp, won't you take me to, boww-ba-bowwmp

[sc49erfan15]

14 hours ago, the admiral said:

Yeah, there's a lot to like except for the NCSC cap and the general premise of a shared Winston-Salem/Greensboro team in the majors. The Carolinas as twins is a clever way to keep the name and refashion it, and I like the underlined C and more traditional ovoid C equally. Overall, I'm glad we didn't lose Minnesota, and especially glad the Twins didn't become the Carolina MaxxHoggz or some other '90s name as ghastly as "Virginia Fury."
 

Haha, look at the map where the stadium would be! Boww-ba-bowwmp, won't you take me to, boww-ba-bowwmp

 

Great name - but (imminent disappointment in 5...4...) it seems to be one of those "phantom" unincorporated communities that only really exists on maps and maybe the name of a church or fire department or something. Unfortunately, I've never met someone that identifies that as their hometown (though this may be because they'd get tired of the giggling).

[sc49erfan15]

Anyway, about the concept:

 

I like the "1960s revival" much better than the "Dome-style." The underlined C and NCSC insignia don't do a lot for me as cap insignia. The NCSC looks good, but there are too many letters there to make a good logo - you might be able to make just an NSC work (I'm thinking small N over small S, interlocked with a larger C) but even that's debatable. And, as others have noted, the underline doesn't work as well under a C as it does the M.

 

The "1960s revival" is rather nicely done. I like that the oval C is distinct enough from the Reds' wishbone C and the Cubs' circular C to be recognized on its own - good job there. The "Carolina" script is fantastic, I really like it on the dugout jacket. The only issue I have with this design is the primary logo - it's a bit busy. There's the "Carolina" text, state map, two heads, an star (that should be moved just a smidge east-southeast), a baseball, and the "Twins" script. I realize this echoes the actual Twins' "shaking hands" logo where there's also a lot going on, but the primary really looks more like an assortment of pasted-in logos, rather than a logo in and of itself. I think you've got something better going with the tertiary logo. Maybe try replacing the "C" in the tertiary with the map/heads and see how it looks? Red/blue color balance may be an issue, if you can resolve that then I think you might have something.

 

Either way, it's very interesting to see this proposed move actually fleshed out in concept form.

[OregonAF2]

Have you ever though about making the actual jersey designs of all 30 teams teams as they are today and even vintage to do some comparisons.  Also, how about doing the Washington National jerseys with their actual numerals for comparison purposes, too?

[OregonAF2]

The Montreal jerseys for the Expos and Voyaguers looked awesome.  You are probably also aware of the Portland Diamond Project working on trying to bring Major League Baseball to Portland, Oregon.  A few concepts were made, but perhaps you can come up with a few designs using a couple of proposed names (possible previous expansion plans) and maybe create something for Portland, too?  Here are a few logos, including those of the former MiLB team the Portland Beavers and proposed Portland Pioneers (designs by Sean Bucknam).  It would probably have to be on another page.

 

https://www.portlanddiamondproject.com

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/1023/Portland_Beavers

http://seanbucknam.com/portland-pioneers

https://www.behance.net/gallery/8726139/Portland-Pioneers-Baseball-Club

[CaptainKirkMN]

As much as I hate the idea of my Twins in such a fiasco, these are pretty slick.  My only complaint is that the underlined C in Part One looks a bit choppy.

[MJD7]

The Carolina Twins look nice! I love the Carolina states acting as the Twins, and the script on the 1960’s away looks great. I definitely prefer the 1960’s modernization, as others have said the “C” on the dome-style set does look a bit wonky. The red-heavy alternate on the 60’s set seems to fit really well, I’d be curious to see you experiment with some alternate color schemes. Great job!

[The_Admiral]

On 3/18/2019 at 2:40 PM, sc49erfan15 said:

Anyway, about the concept:

 

I like the "1960s revival" much better than the "Dome-style." The underlined C and NCSC insignia don't do a lot for me as cap insignia. The NCSC looks good, but there are too many letters there to make a good logo - you might be able to make just an NSC work (I'm thinking small N over small S, interlocked with a larger C) but even that's debatable.

 

C with little triangles pointing north and south above and below it?

[SFGiants58]

On 3/17/2019 at 11:26 AM, BellaSpurs said:

It all looks fantastic! Although I think for the “Dome design” the alternate logo that has both states would be better without the ball. Just leave it as the states. Same with the 1960s revival primary logo. It looks really awkward in my opinion. Maybe try an attempt at the current twins logo (which is their best they’ve ever had) but have cursive scripts, bc that Carolina script is gorgeous!

 

Thanks! I've done some simplification and prepared a new primary logo that works a lot better.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 11:43 AM, coco1997 said:

I'm not feeling the underscored "C" logo from the first set...I think it worked on the "M" logo because the underscore follows the curve of the bottom of the "M," but the "C" doesn't have that same curve. The "Carolina" script from the second set, on the other hand, is superb! 

 

Looking forward to finally getting to the Expos!

 

Thank you! I was having similar issues with the "C-underline," as it was particularly tough to get it to look passable. It's gone now, replaced with a plain "C" in the update. 

 

The Expos (as they were in Montreal) will be aways away, with a few phases for relocation examinations. These include the pipe dreams, the semi-realistic options, and the Virginia destinations. I'll end the series with the Expos (largely a repost of what I did in Project 32), an adjustment to include the crappy MeB logo, and another simulation of one of their rejected names.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 12:07 PM, JG36 said:

Looking forward to the expos, probably more renaming involved I would think. That said, will we see a Washington Expos?

 

Thanks! There's a lot of renaming, of which Washington Expos is not a possibility. The only markets where I won't be renaming are San Juan and Monterey, duo to the bilingual nature of the name.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 12:39 PM, Blindsay said:

Nice work. Maybe do it modern twins style?

 

Thanks. I don't think I'll do that, since I'm not keen on that style.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 1:03 PM, NicDB said:

Not bad for what it is. But I seriously doubt they'd keep the Twins name if they moved. Especially not if they moved to an area called the Piedmont Triad.

 

Might we see a Carolina Triads concept?

 

Thanks. I figured that the name wouldn't make that much sense in the Triad, so I adapted it to the Carolinas as a whole. Period articles use the phrase "Triad Triplets" to describe the team, albeit in a joking manner.

 

From Steve Berg's Star Tribune article "Twins just might have a place in sports-crazy North Carolina;"

 

"There are plenty of local doubters who think this baseball thing is a joke, a cruel flirtation. 'The Triad Triplets? Puleez! I hope Minneapolis keeps the Twins,' said Peter Oler, who was watching the playoffs at a Greensboro sports bar Friday night."¹

 

Triplets or Triads seemed to be a bit too silly for me. I know that it's not that different from Twins, but it just didn't jive as well with me.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 9:59 PM, QueenCitySwarm said:

Winston-Salem itself has been known as the "Twin City" and has had baseball teams named the Twins in the past referencing the "twin cities" of Winston and Salem that merged to form the current city, so it's possible they would've kept the name, but the whole proposal was garbage and seems to have hurt the Carolinas' prospect of pro baseball for a while.

 

Anyway, great work as always! Clever use of the Twins name to reference both North and South Carolina (something I had, somehow, never thought of)! I'm sure I'd be all over any merch if this team actually did exist.

 

Thanks! I've read a lot of stupid proposals while doing research for this thread, but the Triad Park might take the cake. I get putting a football stadium in such a remote setting, but a baseball stadium, especially when parks were trending towards urban settings? That's just idiotic. Charlotte would have been a better place. Heck, the Carolina Twins name would work far better in Charlotte, since it's near the border.

 

Also, since I'm curious, what would the reaction be if we had the Charlotte Panthers and the Raleigh Hurricanes? 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 2:40 PM, sc49erfan15 said:

Anyway, about the concept:

 

I like the "1960s revival" much better than the "Dome-style." The underlined C and NCSC insignia don't do a lot for me as cap insignia. The NCSC looks good, but there are too many letters there to make a good logo - you might be able to make just an NSC work (I'm thinking small N over small S, interlocked with a larger C) but even that's debatable. And, as others have noted, the underline doesn't work as well under a C as it does the M.

 

The "1960s revival" is rather nicely done. I like that the oval C is distinct enough from the Reds' wishbone C and the Cubs' circular C to be recognized on its own - good job there. The "Carolina" script is fantastic, I really like it on the dugout jacket. The only issue I have with this design is the primary logo - it's a bit busy. There's the "Carolina" text, state map, two heads, an star (that should be moved just a smidge east-southeast), a baseball, and the "Twins" script. I realize this echoes the actual Twins' "shaking hands" logo where there's also a lot going on, but the primary really looks more like an assortment of pasted-in logos, rather than a logo in and of itself. I think you've got something better going with the tertiary logo. Maybe try replacing the "C" in the tertiary with the map/heads and see how it looks? Red/blue color balance may be an issue, if you can resolve that then I think you might have something.

 

Either way, it's very interesting to see this proposed move actually fleshed out in concept form.

 

Thanks! I too like the 1960s revival variant a lot more. I followed your advice in moving the star and simplifying the logos. Thanks!

 

On 3/17/2019 at 10:44 PM, the admiral said:

Yeah, there's a lot to like except for the NCSC cap and the general premise of a shared Winston-Salem/Greensboro team in the majors. The Carolinas as twins is a clever way to keep the name and refashion it, and I like the underlined C and more traditional ovoid C equally. Overall, I'm glad we didn't lose Minnesota, and especially glad the Twins didn't become the Carolina MaxxHoggz or some other '90s name as ghastly as "Virginia Fury."
 

Haha, look at the map where the stadium would be! Boww-ba-bowwmp, won't you take me to, boww-ba-bowwmp

On 3/18/2019 at 12:52 PM, sc49erfan15 said:

 

Great name - but (imminent disappointment in 5...4...) it seems to be one of those "phantom" unincorporated communities that only really exists on maps and maybe the name of a church or fire department or something. Unfortunately, I've never met someone that identifies that as their hometown (though this may be because they'd get tired of the giggling).

 

Thanks! I'm glad things turned out the way they did as well with the Twins staying in place and this boondoggle not taking place.

 

I didn't even notice the Horneytown community! That's kinda fun.

 

On 3/19/2019 at 1:16 PM, OregonAF2 said:

Have you ever though about making the actual jersey designs of all 30 teams teams as they are today and even vintage to do some comparisons.  Also, how about doing the Washington National jerseys with their actual numerals for comparison purposes, too?

 

I don't think I have the time to really get into that, since images of current uniforms are readily available. If I want to do a comparison, I'll use renderings from the mothership.

 

On 3/19/2019 at 1:26 PM, OregonAF2 said:

The Montreal jerseys for the Expos and Voyaguers looked awesome.  You are probably also aware of the Portland Diamond Project working on trying to bring Major League Baseball to Portland, Oregon.  A few concepts were made, but perhaps you can come up with a few designs using a couple of proposed names (possible previous expansion plans) and maybe create something for Portland, too?  Here are a few logos, including those of the former MiLB team the Portland Beavers and proposed Portland Pioneers (designs by Sean Bucknam).  It would probably have to be on another page.

 

https://www.portlanddiamondproject.com

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/1023/Portland_Beavers

http://seanbucknam.com/portland-pioneers

https://www.behance.net/gallery/8726139/Portland-Pioneers-Baseball-Club

 

Portland will have an entry in the series (to reflect how both the Expos and Marlins considered moving there), but I don't think I'll be using any one of those names. I've got my own idea for the city.

 

On 3/19/2019 at 2:00 PM, CaptainKirkMN said:

As much as I hate the idea of my Twins in such a fiasco, these are pretty slick.  My only complaint is that the underlined C in Part One looks a bit choppy.

 

Thanks!

 

I've done some updates on the original post, with a new "C" and secondary for Part One, a new primary for Part Two, and a retouch of the map logo.

 

 

 

I've also deleted the "NCSC," since I couldn't get it to work all that well for me.

 

I'm working on the next slate, which should be up soon enough!

 

¹ Steve Berg, “Twins Just Might Have a Place in Sports-Crazy North Carolina,” Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities, October 5, 1997, sec. News.

[mcrosby]

What about an monogram with a similar C to the current Twins C but with an N on top and C on the bottom? 

[sky1324]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! I've read a lot of stupid proposals while doing research for this thread, but the Triad Park might take the cake. I get putting a football stadium in such a remote setting, but a baseball stadium, especially when parks were trending towards urban settings? That's just idiotic. Charlotte would have been a better place. Heck, the Carolina Twins name would work far better in Charlotte, since it's near the border.

 

Also, since I'm curious, what would the reaction be if we had the Charlotte Panthers and the Raleigh Hurricanes? 

 

I can guarantee you that the Canes would have had just as little success, since Raleigh isn't anywhere close to the border, so any SC fans wouldn't care anyways, be it a "regional" team or not. The Panthers might be a different case, however. The whole "One Carolina" thing really caught on in 2015, and I'm not sure the team would've had the widespread success it does without appealing to the whole region. 

 

And yeah, that stadium proposal is ridiculous. In fact, if they were looking at the Carolinas, I have no clue why Charlotte wasn't their number one choice. The city is constantly desperate to prove itself, and probably would've handed over lots of money for the stadium, even with BoA Stadium just having been built. However, I don't see them going with the name Twins if they had moved to Charlotte, just because of the history of the Knights name.

[MilSox]

It's not like a team called the Triplets is completely unheard of. But I also didn't think about the possibility of having Twins to mean the "twin" Carolinas.

Maybe I just don't like this because I'm having such a hard time wrapping my head around how this was even supposed to work in the first place.  This has to be the most random spot anyone has ever tried to put a major pro franchise.

[teeray01]

https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/general-baseball/history-of-the-game/79207-a-successful-continental-league

Maybe not relevant to this topic but this proposed third major league impacted expansion and relocation in the MLB.  Would be cool to see your take on this at some point.

[coco1997]

The new primary for the "1960s revival" set and the updated cap logo for the Metrodome set are big improvements. Definitely an example of less being more. 

[MSO94]

On 3/21/2019 at 9:22 PM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! I've done some simplification and prepared a new primary logo that works a lot better.

 

 

Thank you! I was having similar issues with the "C-underline," as it was particularly tough to get it to look passable. It's gone now, replaced with a plain "C" in the update. 

 

The Expos (as they were in Montreal) will be aways away, with a few phases for relocation examinations. These include the pipe dreams, the semi-realistic options, and the Virginia destinations. I'll end the series with the Expos (largely a repost of what I did in Project 32), an adjustment to include the crappy MeB logo, and another simulation of one of their rejected names.

 

 

Thanks! There's a lot of renaming, of which Washington Expos is not a possibility. The only markets where I won't be renaming are San Juan and Monterey, duo to the bilingual nature of the name.

 

 

Thanks. I don't think I'll do that, since I'm not keen on that style.

 

 

Thanks. I figured that the name wouldn't make that much sense in the Triad, so I adapted it to the Carolinas as a whole. Period articles use the phrase "Triad Triplets" to describe the team, albeit in a joking manner.

 

From Steve Berg's Star Tribune article "Twins just might have a place in sports-crazy North Carolina;"

 

"There are plenty of local doubters who think this baseball thing is a joke, a cruel flirtation. 'The Triad Triplets? Puleez! I hope Minneapolis keeps the Twins,' said Peter Oler, who was watching the playoffs at a Greensboro sports bar Friday night."¹

 

Triplets or Triads seemed to be a bit too silly for me. I know that it's not that different from Twins, but it just didn't jive as well with me.

 

 

Thanks! I've read a lot of stupid proposals while doing research for this thread, but the Triad Park might take the cake. I get putting a football stadium in such a remote setting, but a baseball stadium, especially when parks were trending towards urban settings? That's just idiotic. Charlotte would have been a better place. Heck, the Carolina Twins name would work far better in Charlotte, since it's near the border.

 

Also, since I'm curious, what would the reaction be if we had the Charlotte Panthers and the Raleigh Hurricanes? 

 

 

Thanks! I too like the 1960s revival variant a lot more. I followed your advice in moving the star and simplifying the logos. Thanks!

 

 

Thanks! I'm glad things turned out the way they did as well with the Twins staying in place and this boondoggle not taking place.

 

I didn't even notice the Horneytown community! That's kinda fun.

 

 

I don't think I have the time to really get into that, since images of current uniforms are readily available. If I want to do a comparison, I'll use renderings from the mothership.

 

 

Portland will have an entry in the series (to reflect how both the Expos and Marlins considered moving there), but I don't think I'll be using any one of those names. I've got my own idea for the city.

 

 

Thanks!

 

I've done some updates on the original post, with a new "C" and secondary for Part One, a new primary for Part Two, and a retouch of the map logo.

 

 

 

I've also deleted the "NCSC," since I couldn't get it to work all that well for me.

 

I'm working on the next slate, which should be up soon enough!

 

¹ Steve Berg, “Twins Just Might Have a Place in Sports-Crazy North Carolina,” Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities, October 5, 1997, sec. News.

 

 

 

 

 

So is the only thing changed on the "Map Logo" is switching the three points upsidedown ?

[PowderedWater]

On 1/8/2019 at 6:32 AM, SFGiants58 said:

TL;DR: The dude in my avatar as Frank Jordan/the San Francisco investors/Bill White and his lady opponent as the Naimoli group.

Who is the dude anyway?

[Discrim]

19 hours ago, PowderedWater said:

Who is the dude anyway?

He can speak Japanese...in Serbian.

His right eyebrow has experienced more thrills than a lesser man's entire body.

He can see John Cena.

He is...the Most Interesting Man in the World.