SFGiants58

MLB: The Defunct Saga - Virginia Fury Added

Recommended Posts

On 4/12/2019 at 7:07 PM, the admiral said:

Love the look of the Sultanes.

 

I remember in 2005 that the Marlins were in preliminary talks with Bexar County to explore moving to San Antonio. Is there enough movement there that they'd qualify for the thread? With talks that the Dolphins were going to evict the Marlins from Dolphin Stadium whether shovels were in the ground or not, and the 05-06 fire sale, the Marlins really did seem like they were going down for the count.

 

http://offthekuff.com/wp/?p=11906

https://tht.fangraphs.com/relocation-as-vaporware/

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0eljuXJeO34J:https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2017/04/13/san-antonio-better-off-now-because-of-the-one-that.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

 

This would be interesting to see this with the Spurs fiesta color palette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

LAS VEGAS LIZARDS - What’s eating Gilbert Gila?

 

spacer.png

(Father Ted .gif's are here)

 

This proposal had a surprising amount of longevity to it. Not only did Las Vegas express interest in receiving the Expos, but the city was also in Jeff Loria’s extortion/relocation talks in 2006. But how did Vegas get in that position?

 

Mayor Oscar B. Goodman, a former mob attorney, networked with Democratic financier Lou Weisbach in 2003. Weisbach used connections with several influential MLB figures (e.g., Cubs broadcaster Steve Stone, relocation consultant Corey Busch, and Michael Shapiro - former general counsel of the Giants and Braves) to get baseball’s attention. Thanks to a letter from Shapiro, the Vegas group immediately got interest.1

 

However, Goodman’s original plan for a publicly-financed downtown stadium (as advertised to MLB) gave way to a privately-funded proposal in the parking lot of several casinos (e.g., the Aladdin, Paris, and Bally’s) on the Strip. This would have been a $420-$500 million park with a retractable roof and several event configurations (e.g., boxing and concerts). Because of this change of plans and a lack of clarity in securing funding, the plan did not get all that much serious consideration. It was clear that there were too many obstacles in the way of a viable stadium plan.2

 

Still, Goldman and Weisbach expressed interest in swooping up the team after DC’s funding negotiations hit a snag. During Loria’s attempts to get a new stadium in Miami, the Marlins reached out to Las Vegas. Goodman met with Marlins executives in 2004, with talks continuing into 2006. Since the Marlins got their stadium and Vegas never got a competent stadium plan together, Sin City remained without an MLB team.3 

 

TL;DR: Harold Howard as Goodman/Weisbach, with Steve Jennum as MLB.4

 

jqtnTFp.gif

 

While Vegas might one day support an expansion team, the tourism-based economy would discourage an 81-date schedule. Add in the economic downturn following the 2008 recession, the need for realignment, and the long-term desire for a team in Washington/Northern Virginia, and you’ve got a messy proposition. Also, Cashman Field would have made for an inadequate temporary venue.

 

However, what if either MLB or Loria went all-in on Vegas? What would have happened?

 

I turned to local fauna for the inspiration, namely the Banded Gila Monster. This lizard was the inspiration for the sore losersGolden Knights’ mascot and is certainly a fierce creature. The color scheme is black/yellow-gold/red, akin to the coloration of the team’s namesake. The primary is a top-down view of the lizard’s head within an ace of spades. The insignia is a cursive interlocking “LV” (Beaverton Script modified) while the tertiary is the primary in a roundel. The lettering is the Atlanta Hawks’ 2007-15 font since it reminded me of the Golden Knights’ wordmark letteringEDIT: I've adjusted the script and tertiary to incorporate @vtgco, @coco1997, and @AstroBull21's C+C. Linked here are comparisons for the scripts and tertiary, and the original is here.

 

u7ZhpOq.png

 

The uniforms follow a fairly traditional template, with a black/yellow-gold co-dominance. The scripts draw inspiration from the Las Vegas Wranglers’ uniforms of the 1950s. Three-layer stripes are on the sleeves and pants, which pair well with Northwestern stripes on the socks. The Hawks’ font makes up the numerals, while the primary is on the sleeves. The original is here.

 

gshJNyj.png

 

The alternates include a yellow-gold jersey with a yellow-gold-crowned cap. The black jersey features the team insignia on the chest and the tertiary on the sleeve. I've replaced the insignia with the "Las Vegas" script and tweaked the home alt script. My initial rendering is here.

 

IzQDWhR.png

 

Additional alternates include a pairing of the yellow-gold headwear with the home uniform, while also featuring a racing stripes uniform. Inspired by the Expos’ similar design, this one has a white front-panel and the primary on the chest. The original is here.

 

LyhScQc.png

 

The jacket features the road script. Here's the first variant.

 

OnhuzMD.png

 

Whether they were the Expos or the Marlins, a relocated team in Vegas could look fantastic. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, oh deer-y me!

 

AP, “The Dreamers in Las Vegas Awaken and See the Expos,” The New York Times, May 23, 2004, sec. Baseball, https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/sports/baseball/the-dreamers-in-las-vegas-awaken-and-see-the-expos.html; Steve Fainaru, “Las Vegas Rolls the Dice on Expos’ Move,” The Washington Post, August 13, 2004, sec. Sports, https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2004/08/13/las-vegas-rolls-the-dice-on-expos-move/984a032a-6a15-4047-a913-66fa455b4565/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fa52463fec9d; Rob Miech, “Long Shot Ready to Run Again,” Las Vegas Sun, September 23, 2004, sec. Sports, https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2004/sep/23/long-shot-ready-to-run-again/.

2 Ibid.

3 Charles Elmore, “Stadium Roulette Opening-Day Ritual,” The Palm Beach Post, April 12, 2006, sec. Sports; Barry Jackson, “Marlins Considering Move to Las Vegas,” Houston Chronicle, December 9, 2004, sec. Sports, https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/Marlins-considering-move-to-Las-Vegas-1654331.php; Michael McCarthy, “Vegas Makes Play for Team - Mayor Leading Push to Lure Big-League Franchise to Desert Says Don’t Bet against Sin City,” USA Today, November 30, 2005, sec. News.

4 There’s something about early UFC that’s just so endearing, especially pre-insanity Harold Howard. Crime in Sports did a fantastic episode on him.

 

Edited by SFGiants58
Updates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like it, though the top-down view of the head and tongue sticking out is a bit similar to Arizona.

 

I'm not feeling the Expos-style jersey aesthetically... I imagine it'd just be treated as a new team, anyway.

 

Maybe try red or black script on the sand & yellow jerseys, and/or dot the i's with a spade?

The black jersey looks nice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think you could throw together a black alt with the road script (and a road uni with red script)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to see, instead of the roundel for the tertiary, remove the laces behind the ace, then extend that border on the sides to give it the same shape as the "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a freakin' awesome concept! 

 

- The color scheme fits the nickname and the city but I wonder if you might want to lean a little bit more into the red so it doesn't come across as ripping off the Pirates' colors too much.

 

- This would be a big change but maybe you'll consider it: I'd turn the spade logo upside down, for two reasons. 1) The upturned spade is sometimes considered bad luck (kind of like a reverse of the Mariners' trident logo) and 2) the lizard face would be clearer.
 

- The "Las Vegas" script is just godly. The "z" in the "Lizards" script is kind of wonky, so try smoothing out the "iz."

 

- Very small change but since the roundel logo includes stars, maybe go with the eight-pointed stars from the Welcome to Las Vegas sign

 

Pure speculation but I'm going to bet the next team will be called the Portland Stags. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@SFGiants58 The Colonials logo sheet still has the logo with the Pirates concept tri-corner hat instead of the new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its hard to put into words, but something about that cursive Z on the Lizards script seems like its out of the flow.  I get the lower case cursive Z is a jumble of a letter on its own accord, but maybe the loop at the bottom can be tightened up a bit...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I was hoping for a professional baseball team in Las Vegas to be called the "Aces".

 

 

I like the color scheme, really fitting of a casino you'd see on the Strip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this Lizards concept! Every single uniform option is fantastic. The color scheme is perfect for a Las Vegas team. The scripts are great.

 

I can understand @coco1997‘s sentiments about adding a little more red to distance from the Pirates, but I’m not really sure how you could do that without decreasing the yellow, which I don’t think you should do. I think this is unique enough for sure, as they’d certainly be more distinct from each other than the Astros and Tigers, for example. 

 

It would be interesting to the black/yellow/red color scheme evenly distributed (maybe sort of like your Milwaukee White Sox), or a version of the set that is mostly black & red with yellow accents, but I imagine what you have right now is best. This is a beautiful set!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/24/2018 at 10:24 PM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Thanks! It's nice to see an A's fan liking these concepts. The reason I always have at least one city initial cap for the team is that I've long believed that they should have a city-specific alternate cap. It'd be a way to shake the "vagabond franchise" label on one of their alternates (never a primary, of course). 

 

The All-A's series might just be a fun plan!

 

 

Thanks, guys! I really enjoyed modifying my old Diamondbacks concept for this purpose. @vtgco, I do see your point about the elephant having a bit of a sugar skull vibe, but the location and relative lack of detail bring it more in line with the kachina.

 

If you followed my Project 32 series, you'd find that I really do not like state names for teams, and will avoid them if I can help it. Since my alternate history never had the team leaving Phoenix proper (unlike the Cardinals and Coyotes), I saw no reason to embrace state imagery or the state name, no matter the alliteration. I'll probably produce an Arizona A's concept towards the end of the thread.

 

I hope you like the NOLA A's!

 

 

Thank you! Those are my favorite part of the design. 

 

 

Thanks! I wasn't sure that Matrix would mesh well with Old English, but the letter proportions matched fairly well.

 

 

Thank you!

 

NEW ORLEANS ATHLETICS - Pelican Parade

 

The final A’s relocation proposal (at least until the mid-’00s) is here! This one emerged from Charlie O.’s exit strategy in early 1979, in which he entertained a $10-$12 million offer from Eddie DeBartolo, Sr., then-owner of the Pittsburgh Penguins and several horse racing tracks. The offer would have seen the team move to New Orleans, specifically the Superdome in its baseball configuration. However, the Coliseum board and Baseball Commissioner Bowie Kuhn scuttled the deal. The relocation failed for several reasons beyond the Coliseum lease. One rationale was that Kuhn wanted the Marvin Davis (of Denver) to buy the team, while another explanation was that Kuhn didn’t want an owner with significant gambling interests in the majors.1 The Denver discussion then occurred, followed by Haas’ purchase of the team. However, what if DeBartolo bought the A’s and they moved, settling into the Superdome and maybe a baseball-only stadium in the ‘90s? 

 

The changeover from Oakland to New Orleans produces a few notable changes, such as the introduction of purple into the color scheme. The Mardi Gras colors continues the radical aesthetic pushed by Finley, albeit for a New Orleans context.2 While green is still the main shade, purple acts as a secondary and gold appears as an accent (unlike what the similarly-colored New Orleans Jazz did). These A’s also do not reintroduce the elephant. Much like Atlanta, there would be overlap between A’s fans and LSU fans. The elephant is a semi-official symbol of one of the Tigers’ conference rivals, the Alabama Crimson Tide. Therefore, the white elephant gave way to a white Pelican. The (Brown) Pelican is both the state bird of Louisiana and the name of the historic minor-league baseball team in the city, so it worked as the new symbol of the club.3

 

The primary features a pelican perched on the (nearly defunct) New Orleans AAA baseball team’s alternate logo, without the crown/cake topper. Inside the crest are the city and team initials, along with the Fleur-de-Lis (a civic/New France symbol). The secondaries are both insignias, while the tertiary displays the pelican at the front. Wordmarks are rendered in the 2014 NBA All-Star Game font. (Pre-fix image here)

 

dSWSd4O.png

 

The home and road uniforms have some lovely flair to them. The wrought iron pattern from the crest appears as sleeve and sock stripes, highlighting the quirks of this colorway. Purple and green do not touch, with either white or yellow separating them at all times (outside of the sleeve-mounted crest). Purple front numbers and NOB’s contrast with green scripts and rear numbers. The caps feature gold insignias and purple bills. I did not want to use double outlines, as they make lettering and logos look too muddy. Numbers are MLB Block with Serifs, while the NOB’s are Varsity Serif.

 

zUjOds2.png

 

The alternates continue this colorway, with gold as the front number color and purple/green with white outlines for the main lettering. I also presented a purple-crowned cap for the purple jersey, along with purple socks.

 

mw9fRFD.png

 

The second set of alts includes a gold top. This kit has a gold-on-green “NO" insignia on a white-front panel cap, as well as the tertiary on the sleeve. The other uniform is a throwback to the 1955 Pelicans, featuring images traced from Ebbets Field Flannels’ recreation of that jersey and the New Orleans AAA team’s throwbacks.4 

 

lLTF9kb.png

 

The jacket features a funky twist, with a green front and a purple back! The sock stripes are on the sleeves, while the crest resides on the back. The throwback also has its designated jacket, using a tri-stripe pattern on the trim (as the ‘55 Pelicans were a Pirates affiliate in the Southern Association).

 

RLwQtnc.png i88NXdC.png

 

While I’m glad the move didn’t go through, such a relocation would have a great deal of potential to produce a unique look. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

giphy.gif

 

Up next, we stick around in NOLA, for a bit of privateering. 

 

1 Roger D. Launius and G. Michael Green, Charlie Finley: The Outrageous Story of Baseball’s Super Showman (New York, NY: Bloomsbury Publishing USA, 2010), 286; 
“Timeline – Newballpark.Org,” accessed October 20, 2018, https://newballpark.org/timeline/.

2 Rebecca McCormick, “All About Mardi Gras | Mardi Gras Colors,” All About Mardi Gras, accessed October 25, 2018, http://www.allaboutmardigras.com/Features/Tradition Features/colors.html.

3 “Brown Pelican Overview, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology,” All About Birds, accessed October 25, 2018, https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Brown_Pelican/overview;
“Louisiana State Bird | Brown Pelican,” accessed October 25, 2018, https://statesymbolsusa.org/symbol-official-item/louisiana/state-bird/brown-pelican; “BB Blog – New Orleans Pelicans - Baseball,” Bonin’s Briefs, accessed October 25, 2018, https://boninsbriefs.com/category/bb-blog/new-orleans-pelicans-baseball-bb-blog/.
4 “New Orleans Pelicans 1955 Home Jersey,” Ebbets Field Flannels, accessed October 25, 2018, https://www.ebbets.com/products/new-orleans-pelicans-1955-home-jersey.

Great job with the New Orleans Athletics uniforms. However, on the numbers and letters on the home and road jerseys, I would have added purple trim to the script Athletics and New Orleans and have the numbers and letters be green with purple and gold trim. As for the pelican, it is a nice touch but I wouldn't know if the NBA's Pelicans would allow the A's to use the pelican for their logo. They could either bite the bullet with the elephant or use the nutria (the animal with orange teeth that the minor league Zephyrs used for their mascots and logo) for their logo. If the Oakland Athletics decide to move if they can't find a place in Oakland for a new ballpark, maybe they should look at the Crescent City among others for a new home. The ballpark, The Shrine on Airline in suburban Metairie (Formerly Zephyr Field) could either be expanded or torn down and a new retractable roof ballpark be built in its place.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2019 at 11:47 PM, TrueYankee26 said:

The rivalry in the desert between Lizards and Diamondbacks in the same division would be interesting

 

Indeed it would! It was a bit of a challenge to design it in a way that it didn't infringe too much. Rounded edges replace geometric shapes, while cursive scripts take the place of display fonts.

 

On 5/9/2019 at 1:28 AM, rjrrzube said:

I'm not seeing the Gila monster. Love the colors, though. 

 

Thanks. Yeah, it can be a little hard to see. However, I have tried to make it visible with the yellow coloration and lines to suggest the shape.

 

On 5/9/2019 at 1:55 AM, vtgco said:

I like it, though the top-down view of the head and tongue sticking out is a bit similar to Arizona.

 

I'm not feeling the Expos-style jersey aesthetically... I imagine it'd just be treated as a new team, anyway.

 

Maybe try red or black script on the sand & yellow jerseys, and/or dot the i's with a spade?

The black jersey looks nice!

 

Thanks! I can definitely see how the Expos-style jersey might be an issue, but it also fits with Las Vegas (lights and such).

 

The spade-i will be implemented in the final version, while I have a black/red script version of several uniforms ready. 

 

On 5/9/2019 at 3:00 AM, heavybassX said:

I was hoping for a Lounge Lizard alt :P

 

Heh.

 

On 5/9/2019 at 4:23 AM, Jimmy Lethal said:

Do you think you could throw together a black alt with the road script (and a road uni with red script)?

 

Certainly!

 

WOBqhmt.pngVJhQxwC.png

I don't like it as much, given that the sand kind of blurs with the yellow. 

 

On 5/9/2019 at 8:54 AM, Dan O'Mac said:

I would love to see, instead of the roundel for the tertiary, remove the laces behind the ace, then extend that border on the sides to give it the same shape as the "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign.

 

I thought about a design like that, but it just seemed way to corny for my tastes.

 

6yq2ZvY.png

 

 

On 5/9/2019 at 9:52 AM, coco1997 said:

This is a freakin' awesome concept! 

 

- The color scheme fits the nickname and the city but I wonder if you might want to lean a little bit more into the red so it doesn't come across as ripping off the Pirates' colors too much.

 

- This would be a big change but maybe you'll consider it: I'd turn the spade logo upside down, for two reasons. 1) The upturned spade is sometimes considered bad luck (kind of like a reverse of the Mariners' trident logo) and 2) the lizard face would be clearer.
 

- The "Las Vegas" script is just godly. The "z" in the "Lizards" script is kind of wonky, so try smoothing out the "iz."

 

- Very small change but since the roundel logo includes stars, maybe go with the eight-pointed stars from the Welcome to Las Vegas sign

 

Pure speculation but I'm going to bet the next team will be called the Portland Stags. ;)

 

Thanks! I've done some tweaks to the concepts which incorporate the fixed "iz" and the sign stars.

 

6NiyGuN.png 3WM41cK.png

 

On 5/9/2019 at 6:24 PM, JH42XCC said:

@SFGiants58 The Colonials logo sheet still has the logo with the Pirates concept tri-corner hat instead of the new one.

 

Thanks, it's fixed.

 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:17 AM, AstroBull21 said:

Its hard to put into words, but something about that cursive Z on the Lizards script seems like its out of the flow.  I get the lower case cursive Z is a jumble of a letter on its own accord, but maybe the loop at the bottom can be tightened up a bit...

 

I've adjusted the "iz" to better fit, as seen in the comparison above.

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:49 AM, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

Hmmm, I was hoping for a professional baseball team in Las Vegas to be called the "Aces".

 

 

I like the color scheme, really fitting of a casino you'd see on the Strip.

 

Thanks! Yeah, I just don't like that name. Reno pulls it off better and Chewbarky's attitude kind of ruined that name for me. Disgrace the Ace and the shameless attempt to "sexy" it up.

 

 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:04 PM, MJD7 said:

I love this Lizards concept! Every single uniform option is fantastic. The color scheme is perfect for a Las Vegas team. The scripts are great.

 

I can understand @coco1997‘s sentiments about adding a little more red to distance from the Pirates, but I’m not really sure how you could do that without decreasing the yellow, which I don’t think you should do. I think this is unique enough for sure, as they’d certainly be more distinct from each other than the Astros and Tigers, for example. 

 

It would be interesting to the black/yellow/red color scheme evenly distributed (maybe sort of like your Milwaukee White Sox), or a version of the set that is mostly black & red with yellow accents, but I imagine what you have right now is best. This is a beautiful set!

 

Thanks!

 

Before I post the next team, I'll be getting a few updates out of the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This discussion has actually prompted me to look up the history of the cursive lowercase z. It doesn't read as one at all. As soon as I got out of third grade and didn't have to be graded on penmanship anymore, I would go back to a normal slashed z and then resumed cursive with the next letter. I don't recommend this, of course.

 

I like dotting the i with an ace, nice subtle Vegas touch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the first of a big series of updates!

 

Up first, the Philadelphia Athletics!

 

When I first did the Athletics nearly a year ago, I opted for a straight mashup of my Oakland A's concept with the Philadelphia-appropriate colors. However, after doing a litany of A's concepts, I became acutely aware of how slip-shod the mashup was.

 

The problems started with the A's Kansas City/Oakland elephant logo. I've been over this before, but this rendering is terrible. The line weights and details are all over the place, it doesn't shrink all that well, and has no real way to incorporate a "civic" identity. I have ameliorated this problem:

 

kJi9yEa.png

 

The lines are thicker, with consistent weights and better detailing. The ball stitches have also been redone, with a civic logo on the roundel (in this case, the keystone with an Old English P). I've also tweaked the heraldry design from the Louisville/Kansas City/Denver concepts, incorporating details from the 1930 press pin in a more dynamic logo.

 

r27jl8i.png

 

The Old English wordmarks have also received clean-up, with italics replaced with a half-arch design.

 

SY3dFiX.png

 

These tweaks have all been incorporated into the original designs. The keystone design of the original has become a tertiary, with the heraldry elephant and the "19 A 01" text.

 

1954BwT.png

 

1gF3EWe.png

 

dJm9cYC.png

 

6uu3F1F.png

 

The road variants have also returned, with both "Phila" and "Philadelphia" half-arched wordmarks alongside radially-arched "PHILA" logos (both with and without placket trim).

 

ZCJpS0N.pngKOjbmKW.png

 

I think that it's a cleaner look, giving the classic designs a cleaner style. 

 

Up next, the LA A's get a big overhaul (per @coco1997's excellent suggestion)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice update to the Phila A’s.

 

Excited to see how you apply my suggestion for the LA A’s!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been a while since I posted in this thread, but you keep killing it. 

BTW, I now want to see a Brewers concept with the shades of Blue & Yellow/Gold used here.... so pretty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.