2018 NFL Season

[Kaz]

3 hours ago, B-Rich said:

Put Brady in Tampa Bay or Cleveland and he's not half what he's been.

Well, that would also apply to Montana, Marino, Unitas, or whoever your GOAT is, so not sure where you are going with this.  An elite QB can put a good team over the top as a true contender, but they can't make chicken salad from chicken :censored: like a generational talent can in the NBA.

[JWhiz96]

42 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Well, that would also apply to Montana, Marino, Unitas, or whoever your GOAT is, so not sure where you are going with this.  An elite QB can put a good team over the top as a true contender, but they can't make chicken salad from chicken like a generational talent can in the NBA.

Yeah, I've never understood this argument. Football is a 22 man sport, the individual player (even the most important position) still leans on his teammates more than an NBA or MLB player. Great QBs can bring a team on the cusp over the hump (Brees to the Saints, Manning to the Broncos) but they can't win it by themselves (Marino).

[jn8]

Oh God, what did I start?

 

 

 

But in all seriousness, Brady and Rodgers are two of the greatest this generation. Yes I left off Brees, and he can be put with them. It can be argued for each of them that they are the greatest of all time. Nothing I said wasn’t factual. You can argue, “What if this or what if that” all you want, but the reality is that we can’t know. What if Rodgers had a better coach? What if Brady played in Cleveland? What if Brees signed with Miami and Nick Saban? We’ll never know. What we do know is Brady is putting up numbers over 40 like he did when he was in his 20s. Brees is on the verge of breaking all the career passing records. Rodgers consistently wins, despite having a fairly mediocre supporting cast. I’m all for debating who the best is, but argue what’s there, what we CAN see and prove. Stop with the “what if’s?” Don’t argue on the basis of something that can’t be proven. 

[Rockstar Matt]

5 hours ago, B-Rich said:

 

Rodgers?  Can't carry Drew Bree's jockstrap.

 

This is a poor take. 

 

Rodgers is one of the greatest QB’s to ever play. I’d argue he’s the best passer the NFL has ever seen. 

 

Brees, (who I like more than Rodgers, personally), isn’t anywhere near the quality of a QB as Rodgers. Like seriously. It’s not even close. 

 

Rodgers can make every throw that Brees can, but Drew cannot make every throw that Rodgers can. 

 

And I say this has someone who hates Aaron Rodgers. 

[BBTV]

Think about this logically and stop being idiots. Nick Foles won the Super Bowl Championship for the Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles by beating Tom Brady heads up, so by any measure, he’s better. He has the same number of titles as Aaron rogers, but had a season where he threw 27 TDs to only 2 INT, proving that he’s clearly better. 

 

Considering that he’s only a backup, and isn’t as good as Carson Wentz, then via logical equivalence, Wentz is better than both Brady and Rodgers. 

 

So by every relavent measure, Carson Wentz is the GOAT, though I woundnt be upset if Tom Brady was my QB, even if he’s not as good. 

[IceCap]

15 hours ago, B-Rich said:

 

Seriously? 

 

Brady-- maybe in this generation, but he's been the beneficiary of a coach that is levels above anyone else in the NFL, as well as a great team full of talent around him. Put Brady in Tampa Bay or Cleveland and he's not half what he's been.

 

Rodgers?  Can't carry Drew Bree's jockstrap.

"Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are Actually Bad" is, in and of itself, a bad opinion.

[BBTV]

Speaking of quarterbacks that don't suck, are there more future HOF QBs playing now (or in this era) than in any other era in NFL history?

 

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Philip Rivers (IDK, but some have said it)

Matt Ryan?  Maybe?

Nick Foles (no question)

Tony Romo... again... I've heard some say it, but lol OK

[Crabcake]

8 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Speaking of quarterbacks that don't suck, are there more future HOF QBs playing now (or in this era) than in any other era in NFL history?

 

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Eli Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Philip Rivers (IDK, but some have said it)

Matt Ryan?  Maybe?

Nick Foles (no question)

Tony Romo... again... I've heard some say it, but lol OK

Where’s best-interview-in-NFL-history and same-number-of-titles-as-Aaron-Rodgers Joe Flacco?

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

Where’s best-interview-in-NFL-history and same-number-of-titles-as-Aaron-Rodgers Joe Flacco?

 

Is he really in the discussion for HOF? I haven’t watched him much, but isn’t it pretty universally accepted that he’s good, but has never carried his team anywhere? Based on my limited sample size, I don’t see him being in the same class as those others. 

[leopard88]

5 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

Where’s best-interview-in-NFL-history and same-number-of-titles-as-Aaron-Rodgers Joe Flacco?

 

You forgot to add "two-playoff-wins-in-Foxborough-over-Tom-Brady-and-would-have-been-three-if-not-for-Lee-Evans-and/or-Billy-Cundiff."

[IceCap]

8 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

Where’s best-interview-in-NFL-history and same-number-of-titles-as-Aaron-Rodgers Joe Flacco?

How dare you. That’s the Elite Joe Flacco. 

[Crabcake]

6 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Is he really in the discussion for HOF? I haven’t watched him much, but isn’t it pretty universally accepted that he’s good, but has never carried his team anywhere? Based on my limited sample size, I don’t see him being in the same class as those others. 

Absolutely not. Best QB in Ravens history? Absolutely. Playoff monster, especially in Foxboro? Big time. Part of several of the defining and most memorable moments in Ravens history? You bet. But HOF-caliber? No way. I was 100% joking. 

 

If he had carried his 2012/2014 form across these last couple of seasons it would be less of a joke. But his 2015-2017 form was quite frankly very poor, and a lot of that can be attributed to injury and poor receiving corps. Now that he’s healthy and has a respectable WR room, he’s doing alright again.

 

I’ve defended Flacco pretty vigorously since he took over the starting job, just because I feel like he gets a lot of criticism here in Baltimore, some of it warranted, much of it not. He’s had tough circumstances to deal with but the bottom line is that the Ravens have had a respectable quarterback for over a decade in the modern NFL, which is very rare and I’m not sure how many people here realize how lucky we’ve been to have him for as long as we have.

 

That 2012 playoff run will remain, rightfully, the stuff of legend. And the fact that he has the same amount of titles as Aaron Rodgers (and Russell Wilson and Drew Brees) is still hilarious. 

[leopard88]

20 minutes ago, Crabcake47 said:

Absolutely not. Best QB in Ravens history? Absolutely. Playoff monster, especially in Foxboro? Big time. Part of several of the defining and most memorable moments in Ravens history? You bet. But HOF-caliber? No way. I was 100% joking. 

 

If he had carried his 2012/2014 form across these last couple of seasons it would be less of a joke. But his 2015-2017 form was quite frankly very poor, and a lot of that can be attributed to injury and poor receiving corps. Now that he’s healthy and has a respectable WR room, he’s doing alright again.

 

I’ve defended Flacco pretty vigorously since he took over the starting job, just because I feel like he gets a lot of criticism here in Baltimore, some of it warranted, much of it not. He’s had tough circumstances to deal with but the bottom line is that the Ravens have had a respectable quarterback for over a decade in the modern NFL, which is very rare and I’m not sure how many people here realize how lucky we’ve been to have him for as long as we have.

 

That 2012 playoff run will remain, rightfully, the stuff of legend. And the fact that he has the same amount of titles as Aaron Rodgers (and Russell Wilson and Drew Brees) is still hilarious. 

 

I'll second all of this.  Joe gets a lot of unwarranted criticism in Baltimore, which makes me wonder if people forget the days of Eric Zeier, Stoney Case and Anthony Wright.

[dfwabel]

NFL owners eliminate their cross ownership rule. 

 

Quote

NFL owners voted Tuesday to lift the longstanding cross-ownership prohibition, meaning they are now free to own a different professional sports team in cities that have an NFL team. That change, approved at the league’s annual fall meeting, could have a significant impact on the sports landscape.

 

The rule, in place for decades, prohibits owners of NFL teams from owning professional baseball, basketball, or hockey teams in other NFL markets. A big reason it was put in place was so that fellow NFL owners, partners in the league, were not pitted against each other and competing for the same sports dollar.

 

NFL teams have gotten so expensive — Forbes estimates the Cowboys are worth $5 billion — that the universe of people who can afford them is minuscule. Remember, a controlling owner must have a minimum of 30% equity in a team, and there are firm debt limits in place, so those owners have to have piles upon piles of money. The NFL doesn’t allow corporations to own teams.

 

There’s a theory that the Carolina Panthers, who were sold earlier this year for about $2.3 billion, could have commanded a higher price had the field of potential buyers been bigger. There reportedly were some NBA owners interested in the team who couldn’t participate in the bidding because of NFL rules.

 

[Crabcake]

1 hour ago, leopard88 said:

 

I'll second all of this.  Joe gets a lot of unwarranted criticism in Baltimore, which makes me wonder if people forget the days of Eric Zeier, Stoney Case and Anthony Wright.

Seriously.  When you look at the QBs in Ravens history, he's on top and it's not even close.  Only other ones that I can even think are significant are '06-'07 Steve McNair and '00 Trent Dilfer (LOL).  I guess Testaverde in the early years was there too, but he didn't do anything significant IIRC.

[Kramerica Industries]

On 10/15/2018 at 11:26 PM, ninersdd said:

I agree with what Kramerica has said: Automatic 1st down penalties can go to hell.

 

Specifically, and this is what happened on Monday night on the decisive drive - to me, a five-yard penalty has always been, by implication, a "minor" penalty. It's the lowest designated-yardage penalty given in the sport. But, in the case of illegal contact downfield on the defense, that penalty also carries an automatic first down, and there's nothing minor about any penalty that gives the offense an automatic first down. Those two things conflict with each other. Either bump the yardage up to be commensurate with a, for lack of better term, "major" penalty, or get rid of the first down appendage. You can't really do both and still make sense.

[Crabcake]

1 hour ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

Specifically, and this is what happened on Monday night on the decisive drive - to me, a five-yard penalty has always been, by implication, a "minor" penalty. It's the lowest designated-yardage penalty given in the sport. But, in the case of illegal contact downfield on the defense, that penalty also carries an automatic first down, and there's nothing minor about any penalty that gives the offense an automatic first down. Those two things conflict with each other. Either bump the yardage up to be commensurate with a, for lack of better term, "major" penalty, or get rid of the first down appendage. You can't really do both and still make sense.

The thing is, the NFL often doesn’t make sense in what it does to cut back on defense and promote offense and points. Virtually every defensive penalty other than offsides/encroachment/neutral zone infraction is an auto 1st. The NFL will keep it just like it is to ensure offenses get every chance to score.

[FinsUp1214]

Re: QBs

 

I was actually thinking the other day about how fortunate we’ve been in this era to see a lot of great quarterbacks and I wouldn’t be surprised if this era boasted quite a few HOF quarterbacks when all is said and done.

 

I’d organize my personal opinions as to HOF caliber as follows (no particular order to each list):

 

- HOF Locks -

Brady

Brees

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Roethlisberger

Rodgers

Rivers

 

——-

 

- Close, Might Need a Bit More -

Ryan

 

- Solid But “Hall of Good” -

Romo

Alex Smith

Flacco

 

- Still Too Early But Looking On Thier Way -

Wilson

Newton

 

- Still Too Early But Looking On His Way AS LONG AS HE’D STOP HURTING HIMSELF -

Luck

 

- Still Too Early But May Be “Hall of Good” (But Again, There’s Still Time) - 

Dalton

Stafford

 

All told, that’s a significant amount of established talent at the QB position for this era. And then the really young guys following up? Wentz, Mahomes, Prescott, maybe Goff if McVey continues to mold him right? There’s definitely potential for even more greats. Just a really exciting era if you like quarterbacks. 

 

 

 

 

[BBTV]

The "auto first" rule makes sense for those calls, at least in spirit.  They're assuming that if not for the hold or contact, the QB would have thrown / completed a pass to the receiver for a likely first down.  If they got rid of the auto first, then on 3rd and long, the defense could just tackle or hold a guy without fear of giving up a first down (on that particular play anyway.)

 

That being said, the referees need to really watch when they call those things.  Did it really have anything to do with the play?  Did it really have any impact on the receiver's abiliiyt to get open or the QB's decision making?  I was half asleep, but the call against SF on Monday seemed pretty silly, and cost them a game.

[BBTV]

2 minutes ago, FinsUp1214 said:

Re: QBs

 

I was actually thinking the other day about how fortunate we’ve been in this era to see a lot of great quarterbacks and I wouldn’t be surprised if this era boasted quite a few HOF quarterbacks when all is said and done.

 

I’d organize my personal opinions as to HOF caliber as follows (no particular order to each list):

 

- HOF Locks -

Brady

Brees

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Roethlisberger

Rodgers

Rivers

 

——-

 

- Close, Might Need a Bit More -

Ryan

 

- Solid But “Hall of Good” -

Romo

Alex Smith

Flacco

 

- Still Too Early But Looking On Thier Way -

Wilson

Newton

 

- Still Too Early But Looking On His Way AS LONG AS HE’D STOP HURTING HIMSELF -

Luck

 

- Still Too Early But May Be “Hall of Good” (But Again, There’s Still Time) - 

Dalton

Stafford

 

All told, that’s a significant amount of established talent at the QB position for this era. And then the really young guys following up? Wentz, Mahomes, Prescott, maybe Goff if McVey continues to mold him right? There’s definitely potential for even more greats. Just a really exciting era if you like quarterbacks. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're being pretty generous with some of those.

 

The thing is that the guys we're saying are "locks" would be "locks" in any era - not just this qb-friendly one.  I don't know about Phillip Rivers - I think I've only watched him once or twice - but the other guys would be find in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or 10s. The only thing I could see is if they got injured more because defenders could sack them more - but we'll never know that.