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14 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

There was also some stink about the arena having to be in St. Paul, but did the Twin Cities really need two arenas?

 

I mean they ended up having two. The Wolves play in the Target Center in Minneapolis and the Wild play at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul. I had actually never heard about the Timberwolves being a part of why the Stars moved. Everything I have seen or heard has been that Norm Green (who was the North Stars owner at the time) had bought the team with the intention of developing the land around the arena to make more money. When he was denied rumors began that he was looking to move somewhere that he could do that, and a few years later the team moved to Dallas.

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The Timberwolves' refusal to share the arena played a part in the North Stars leaving and the Jets not moving to Minneapolis as originally planned. There was some effort to keep the Stars in Minneapolis but the Target Center couldn't get past some preexisting contracts with Coke or Pepsi and rights to board ads. But Green's plan was always to move the Stars to Anaheim, which the league blocked because Kings owner Bruce McNall was already selling an expansion franchise to Anaheim so he could turn around, claim territorial encroachment on the deal he brokered himself, and pay off some debts he ran up. With all this going on, they told him to find someplace else, which was Dallas, the end, Norm Green sucks.

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The lesson here is that the majority of sports team owners are greedy bastards. 

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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 3:21 PM, the admiral said:

...David Stern not allowing George Shinn to sell the Hornets to them when he wanted to.

 

Actually, it was sort of the reverse.  Shinn wanted to make the temporary move to OKC permanent and keep ownership for himself (while likely selling a minority share to Clay Bennett and the boys, his usual modus operandi when he was strapped for cash, i.e. ALWAYS).  Stern was already in bed with Clay-boy and told Shinn the team could stay IF he sold it all to local owners (including Clay), otherwise it was going back to New Orleans.  Shinn needed to hold on to his sole source of income and thus moved the team back.

 

This whole tying in the Hornets/Pelicans franchise and their time in Oklahoma City as the reason the Sonics moved is baloney. They wouldn't have BEEN in Oklahoma City in the 1st place but for an Act of God natural disaster (exacerbated by 'man-made' poor engineering).  No Hurricane Katrina, no temp move to OKC; no involvement whatsoever in the Sonics relocation situation.

 

 

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Couple of my own;  which are also sort of major:

 

1. Tampa Bay Rowdies -- That old NASL team had quite a fan base-- Tampa's 1st pro team, beating the Bucs by a year-- won an NASL championship and appeared, IIRC in two others.  Great color scheme, original name and logo.  Name went on for years after NASL went under (AISA, ASL/APSL). When MLS came about they really blew it with the stupid "Mutiny" moniker.  The Rowdies name was later resurrected for their NASL 2 and USL team and remains the proposed name behind the recent expansion effort.

 

2. New Orleans Jazz -- Very popular around here; and I've seen old-school throwback stuff for them nationwide.  I make and wear my own t-shirts/ sweatshirts with that iconic logo, and invariably ALL KINDS of people comment on how much they like it (even a guy in Seward, Alaska) and I almost always offer to make them one.  I think I've made and given over 10 such shirts over time; to such a varied group as a New Orleans Policewoman,  a Katrina expatriate living in Austin, and an African-American guy selling barbecue along a parade route during Carnival season.... I think it's because the name (and logo) just SCREAMS. "That's right! That's what it should be!"...    I'm not sure if the team had switched to the "Utah Mountains" or "Salt Lake City Pioneers", the attraction would still be there  (but I can assure you, if that switch HAD occurred, the New Orleans Pelicans would be the New Orleans Jazz right now).

 

3. Brooklyn Dodgers -- No one has mentioned this? I bet you probably see more merch from this team in being worn in North America  than ANY other, particularly those "B" caps, secondarily the "Brooklyn" flocked script jerseys.  Part of it is the nostalgia effect; a lot was the unusuality of "Brooklyn".  You don't see nearly the same kind of love level for the old New York baseball Giants....  Although it wasn't the first big baseball move ( A's, Browns, Braves happened a few years earlier) it was CLEARLY the biggest franchise move in history-- much more so than the Sonics, Raiders, Colts, etc.  This is a fact I think we miss living in our more modern era.  And again, I think if they had become the Hollywood Stars, or Los Angeles Angels, you don't get the same attraction as you do now.

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16 hours ago, the admiral said:

But Green's plan was always to move the Stars to Anaheim, which the league blocked because Kings owner Bruce McNall was already selling an expansion franchise to Anaheim so he could turn around, claim territorial encroachment on the deal he brokered himself, and pay off some debts he ran up.

That’s some peak NHL.

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On 8/14/2018 at 5:23 PM, Brass said:

 

You mean the undisputed best ballpark in AA baseball? It was worth the headache, believe me. Plus, it's the start of a north end revitalization. Hartford has the potential to be a great city and I really want Hartford to be a great city. Dunkin' Donuts Park is not only the most New England thing ever but it's also a sign that the city can be what most people think it's can't be: fun.

 

Also, the Civic Center/XL Center isn't a "dump" per say. It's definitely different from the arena the Whalers played in and it has room inside for investment. They've done a good job redecorating the interior to help out UConn hockey, which is by far their main athletic tenant if you want to count attendance. People would be more excited about professional hockey in Hartford if the Wolf Pack didn't charge NHL prices. $15 for parking versus $0 for Springfield Thunderbirds games is a no brainer if you live in the Springfield-Hartford corridor. The unfortunate part is that you can't really expand outward as the arena is essentially suffocated by some of the busiest streets (by Hartford standards) in the city.

 

Quebec City has a modern, expensive arena and the NHL won't touch them either. The Whalers are never coming back, deal with it.

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No.

 

The Pilots are basically a piece of 50-year-old trivia in terms of their place on the minds of baseball fans, and it would be even worse if not for the existence of Ball Four.

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8 hours ago, rams80 said:

No.

 

The Pilots are basically a piece of 50-year-old trivia in terms of their place on the minds of baseball fans, and it would be even worse if not for the existence of Ball Four.

 

Why else do you think that the Brewers have only done Pilots throwbacks twice, not selling Pilots merchandise, and barely reference them in their stadium imagery? Heck, the team always uses 1970 as their anniversary date, partially as a way to demonstrate how that particular expansion team probably should have been Milwaukee’s in the first place. 

 

They’re a footnote, only useful for explaining how Seattle got the Mariners, Ball Four, and why the Brewers use a blue/yellow color scheme.

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Growing up my Parents didn't have the money to take me to Bruins games, but sometimes they would take me to Lock Monsters Games in Lowell (which isn't too far from where I lived). 

Obviously me being a dumb kid didn't understand the difference between the NHL/AHL. But I still loved going to them 

Related image

 

Still think their original jersey design is one of my favorites before Carolina ruined them. 

Their logo is definitely in my top 5 too. 

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:14 AM, B-Rich said:

Couple of my own;  which are also sort of major:

 

1. Tampa Bay Rowdies -- That old NASL team had quite a fan base-- Tampa's 1st pro team, beating the Bucs by a year-- won an NASL championship and appeared, IIRC in two others.  Great color scheme, original name and logo.  Name went on for years after NASL went under (AISA, ASL/APSL). When MLS came about they really blew it with the stupid "Mutiny" moniker.  The Rowdies name was later resurrected for their NASL 2 and USL team and remains the proposed name behind the recent expansion effort.

 

2. New Orleans Jazz -- Very popular around here; and I've seen old-school throwback stuff for them nationwide.  I make and wear my own t-shirts/ sweatshirts with that iconic logo, and invariably ALL KINDS of people comment on how much they like it (even a guy in Seward, Alaska) and I almost always offer to make them one.  I think I've made and given over 10 such shirts over time; to such a varied group as a New Orleans Policewoman,  a Katrina expatriate living in Austin, and an African-American guy selling barbecue along a parade route during Carnival season.... I think it's because the name (and logo) just SCREAMS. "That's right! That's what it should be!"...    I'm not sure if the team had switched to the "Utah Mountains" or "Salt Lake City Pioneers", the attraction would still be there  (but I can assure you, if that switch HAD occurred, the New Orleans Pelicans would be the New Orleans Jazz right now).

 

3. Brooklyn Dodgers -- No one has mentioned this? I bet you probably see more merch from this team in being worn in North America  than ANY other, particularly those "B" caps, secondarily the "Brooklyn" flocked script jerseys.  Part of it is the nostalgia effect; a lot was the unusuality of "Brooklyn".  You don't see nearly the same kind of love level for the old New York baseball Giants....  Although it wasn't the first big baseball move ( A's, Browns, Braves happened a few years earlier) it was CLEARLY the biggest franchise move in history-- much more so than the Sonics, Raiders, Colts, etc.  This is a fact I think we miss living in our more modern era.  And again, I think if they had become the Hollywood Stars, or Los Angeles Angels, you don't get the same attraction as you do now.

 

I agree that the Brooklyn Dodgers have to stand as the most popular defunct team in American sports history. My view may be tainted because my grandma who lives in Ohio actually was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, but I know many much younger people who have the "B" caps as you mentioned, even here in Missouri. Part of it may also be that Jackie Robinson wasn't just a Dodger, he was a Brooklyn Dodger.

 

On another note, I wouldn't classify it as a "popular" defunct team, but there are a lot of St. Louisans who really like the old St. Louis Browns iconography and I've seen some people with hats with their brand identity.

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