SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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41 minutes ago, MattMill said:

I'm telling you, they're playing with some odd materials. They have a weird sheen to them, both the letters, and a lesser extent, the numbers. They add to the legibility issues. 

So I've yet to see any of the jerseys in person, but I've made similar observations based on looking at photos and watching games on TV. The letters, wordmark, and numbers almost seem like they are made out of that cheap plastic material that they use on the replica cool base jerseys. That's probably not the case in actuality, but there's kind of a strange plastic glossy look to everything that I do not care for, particularly on the black jerseys. When I attend my first game at Marlins Park this season I can try to look closer at the authentics.

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MayBe that gloss is normal?

 

In theory, my last screenshot had conference room visions of looking like this

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But that's not always the case. The eye test from various stadium views is essential. I wonder if they do field tests for commentators and such? Obvious answer is no lol. 

 

The text here has the upper part a bit darker than the mid to lower part

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The gloss is adding an odd gradient type glare even in basic field level professional photos. 

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2 hours ago, MattMill said:

Here's a number and name view from a relatively zoomed in perspective

 

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Umps can probably see it fine. And the commentators have enough close up angles to get an idea. 

 

Names aren't a requirement either. ROJAS is so jumbled, it might as well be blank. 

 

I'm telling you, they're playing with some odd materials. They have a weird sheen to them, both the letters, and a lesser extent, the numbers. They add to the legibility issues. 

The fact that the only thing I can see kinda easily is the 19 in a still HD photo does not mean it’s easy for announcers who for the most part are watching from the booth, and getting the same video feeds you are getting at home. The uniform was poorly thought out. Also the sheen you are talking about is just the way tackle twill looks, it’s just much worse seeing that it’s black on black so there is a very noticeable difference.

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@dont care

Yeah in some regard, I was trying to give them a ounce of credit.  Tackle twill on the Phillies red numbers is shiney and ugly. But everything else in MLB is against a certain contrast.  Black on black is so bad, we realize the twill looks like donkey poop when its color against color. 

 

But like I said. Same as their on field, If they want a true colored outline, do it against all formats.

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I was walking passed a TV yesterday that had their game on.  It was probably around a 50" TV, and I was within a reasonable viewing distance, albeit just walking passed.  It looked like they were wearing plain black tops.  I paused momentarily just to try and see which team it was, and since there were no player close-ups during those few moments, the only way I knew was from the scorebug and remembering who the Phillies were playing against this weekend.

 

It's a disaster, and I'm shocked that it slips through all the required approvals and tests.  If Jeter had a big hand in these, then I fear for the success of the franchise.  That nobody had enough sense to 1) think that "our colores" should imply that they actually display colors, and 2) black on black is terrible, makes me feel that nobody there has the sense to do much of anything right.

 

It certainly requires a lot of talent and work to get a uniform set just right, but it doesn't require much to make sure it's not bad.  Theirs is flat out bad.  

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I really like the new Marlins identity but those Black jerseys are a mess. And if they just fill in everything in white or blue those jersey go from trash to very sexy.

 

The same color numbers/wordmarks somehow work(ed) for the old Braves alts and the red Angels, but don't here.

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14 hours ago, VikWings said:

I really like the new Marlins identity but those Black jerseys are a mess. And if they just fill in everything in white or blue those jersey go from trash to very sexy.

 

The same color numbers/wordmarks somehow work(ed) for the old Braves alts and the red Angels, but don't here.

The key with those other uniforms is that both used thick white outlines so everything popped. The Marlins use blue and red outlines against the black so the script contrast is completely muted.

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On 4/11/2019 at 8:48 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

The words "may" and "provide" and "or" and "uniform" make that a little ambiguous.  What does their definition of "uniform" mean?  Do they further define that as top and bottom?  "Distinctive uniform at all times" - that implies that they could just wear a "distinct" uniform regardless of white or gray being involved.

I just took a look at my 2019 MLB Rulebook (this is actually Rule 3.03 d now, and was last year, as well).

 

MLB doesn't define 'may' as a required term as is done frequently in law. However, the way it is used throughut the rule book makes it clear that 'may' is a mandatory act.  Uniform isn't defined, other than that this is the rule:

 

3.03 Player Uniforms
(a) All players on a team shall wear uniforms identical in color, trim and style, and all players’ uniforms shall include minimal six-inch numbers on their backs.
(b) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players on a team. Any player other than the pitcher may have numbers, and /or letters, insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt.
(c) No player whose uniform does not conform to that of his teammates shall be permitted to participate in a game.
(d) A league may provide that each team shall wear a distinctive uniform at all times, or that each team shall have two sets of uniforms, white for home games and a different color for road games.
(e) Sleeve lengths may vary for individual players, but the sleeves of each individual player shall be approximately the same length, and no player shall wear ragged, frayed or slit sleeves.
(f ) No player shall attach to his uniform tape or other material of a different color from his uniform.
(g) No part of the uniform shall include a pattern that imitates or suggests the shape of a baseball.
(h) Glass buttons and polished metal shall not be used on a uniform.
(i) No player shall attach anything to the heel or toe of his shoe other than the ordinary shoe plate or toe plate. Shoes with pointed spikes similar to golf or track shoes shall not be worn.
( j) No part of the uniform shall include patches or designs relating to commercial advertisements.
(k) A league may provide that the uniforms of its member teams include the names of its players on their backs. Any name other than the last name of the player must be approved by the League President. If adopted, all uniforms for a team must have the names of its players.

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FWIW, someone with the Marlins said in Nov/Dec that MLB's own design team had the biggest hand in designing these, not the team. She said the team was presented with ideas and they chose from that and made minor tweaks and changes from there but that most of this stuff was thought up by MLB's designers. I didn't even know MLB had their own design team but just putting that info out there.

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On 4/14/2019 at 10:23 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

If Jeter had a big hand in these, then I fear for the success of the franchise. 

He didn't. And even if he did, what does uniform design choices have to do with on field success? You could have the '27 Yankees wearing trash bags and they'd still be the '27 Yankees.

 

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21 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

He didn't. And even if he did, what does uniform design choices have to do with on field success? You could have the '27 Yankees wearing trash bags and they'd still be the '27 Yankees.

 

 

I wouldn’t trust the person that OKd these to possess the judgement necessary to assemble the 27 Yankees. 

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I wouldn't trust a league that's allowing Arizona to walk around in those things to make any good decisions about branding at all.

 

Major League Baseball got weird and dystopic in the late 2010s.

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19 hours ago, VikWings said:

The same color numbers/wordmarks somehow work(ed) for the old Braves alts and the red Angels, but don't here.

Those work better than the Marlins black alternate, but they aren't so great, either. At least they aren't nearly enough to convince me that same color on color is a good design choice for jerseys.

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20 hours ago, VikWings said:

I really like the new Marlins identity but those Black jerseys are a mess. And if they just fill in everything in white or blue those jersey go from trash to very sexy.

 

The same color numbers/wordmarks somehow work(ed) for the old Braves alts and the red Angels, but don't here.

 

5 hours ago, aawagner011 said:

The key with those other uniforms is that both used thick white outlines so everything popped. The Marlins use blue and red outlines against the black so the script contrast is completely muted.

Men's Atlanta Braves Dansby Swanson Majestic Alternate Navy Official Cool Base Player Jersey

Men's Los Angeles Angels Mike Trout Majestic Alternate Scarlet Flex Base Authentic Collection Player Jersey

Men's Miami Marlins Starlin Castro Majestic Black Alternate 2019 Authentic Collection Flex Base Player Jersey

 

 

This might be one of the worst designs in MLB history.

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Those Braves and Angels alternates suck too, but if I half-close my eyes and move my head, I can still make out the details of the Braves one. The Marlins jersey is just a black blob at anything but standing still at close distance. It doesn't do its job.

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1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

FWIW, someone with the Marlins said in Nov/Dec that MLB's own design team had the biggest hand in designing these, not the team. She said the team was presented with ideas and they chose from that and made minor tweaks and changes from there but that most of this stuff was thought up by MLB's designers. I didn't even know MLB had their own design team but just putting that info out there.

I'm not at all doubting this, but could you please provide your source? I'm trying to have a better understanding of how the entire process went down.

 

MLB probably had a huge role in this, but I would have expected the actual design work was contracted out. Last year I recall seeing a designer somewhere (not here as far as I know) talking about the concepts he was pitching to the team.

 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

He didn't. And even if he did, what does uniform design choices have to do with on field success? You could have the '27 Yankees wearing trash bags and they'd still be the '27 Yankees.

 

So I never imagined Jeter having a very hands on role here. I do suspect that he and other team reps selected among several options and suggested tweaks. I don't know how accurate or comprehensive the unselected leaked logo concepts were, but those were all terrible. So we dodged a bullet there, despite my own personal contempt for what we ended up with.

 

However, I have to imagine that Jeter & co at least communicated to MLB a rough sketch of what kind of identity they were seeking. It might not have been too specific, but that's probably the stage where the Marlins ruled out a return to teal. Unless I see evidence suggesting otherwise, I'm inclined to speculate the lack of teal is a Marlins rather than MLB decision. The abandonment of orange also strikes me as a team initiative.

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On 4/13/2019 at 7:18 AM, FinsUp1214 said:

That’s horrible. Nothing on that jersey is legible. I’d like to believe they considered legibility when designing and producing it, but it really doesn’t seem like it was thought through hard enough. How that jersey got approved is absolutely beyond me.

That's a good question. Did these jerseys get tested in simulated games, or did they just go with computer renderings? There are many instances where things look great on the computer, and terrible in reality.

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:42 AM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Yet it’s still making the best out of a bad situation with the “M” that’s disjointed from the rest of the script and the “uncanny valley” perfection of the letters (a la Cleveland’s cursive script). Something that’s a bit more hand-drawn looking or a simplified version of the old MiMo/Art Deco lettering would be far better for them.

Yeah, the kindergarten-esque perfection to the letters, and then the second M is wrong and the R in Marlins is wrong as well.  I see them with the dotted line down the center and two red marks around the mentioned letters. 

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3 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I'm not at all doubting this, but could you please provide your source? I'm trying to have a better understanding of how the entire process went down.

I found it...

https://player.fm/series/miami-marlins-podcast/ep-111618-beyond-the-bases-elisa-padilla

The employee is Elisa Padilla, the Marlins' new (hired in early 2018) senior vice president of marketing and community relations, speaking the day after the unveiling. Now that I heard it again she says the Marlins and MLB touched bases on ideas and then MLB went and did research and color studies and then presented several concepts to the Marlins who then chose the one they went with. No clue who presented which details and no clue what tweaks or changes were made at any point in the process but MLB definitely did the design work. By her wording it doesn't sound like the Marlins did much in the process but I'm sure that's not true either. Anyone interested I suggest listening as it's only 12 minutes long and the design process stuff is right at the start.

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6 minutes ago, jdavidev said:

Yeah, the kindergarten-esque perfection to the letters, and then the second M is wrong and the R in Marlins is wrong as well.  I see them with the dotted line down the center and two red marks around the mentioned letters. 

 

I could perhaps overlook most of those flaw, in the Miami wordmark if they simply found a way to make the M seem less disjointed. The gap between the M and the first i just burns my eyes whenever I see it. I think it's partially how isolated the M is but also how asymmetrical the i is too. Maybe this is also the uncanny valley aspect (a rather fitting description), but something just looks so wrong with how that i is drawn with that much space on the left. The Brewers sort of have the same i in their Milwaukee script, but it's much better integrated with the M and doesn't bother me.

 

They are trying to hard to strike a balance between "Miami modern" and baseball tradition, but it simply doesn't work. The Marlins script is much more visually pleasing to me from a design standpoint, but unfortunately it's not being used anywhere outside of the illegible black alternates.

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