SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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Just now, SilverBullet1929 said:

How so?

 

The stubbornness and persistence.

 

I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt (especially after the Dimelo campaign and park renovations), but he's starting to lose me with his conduct this season. The Chip Bowers firing was absolutely bizarre and a total Loria move. And Jeter comes off like an arrogant jackass in every interview he gives. Samson was kind of that way but at least he had a sense of humor about everything. The Marlins PR department needs to work with him on that if he's going to be the public face of the franchise. I just hope he can put his ego aside a little bit and listen to them.

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5 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

that irrational behavior is what Jeter hasn't shown yet and that's the difference between the two.

Chip Bowers firing hands down unless there's some dark dirty secret that's being kept really well hidden. It's possible but unlikely.

 

Anyway, I was responding acutely to the persistence and stubbornness traits you mentioned in your post. His behavior has been very Loria-like on those.

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20 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

The stubbornness and persistence.

 

I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt (especially after the Dimelo campaign and park renovations), but he's starting to lose me with his conduct this season. The Chip Bowers firing was absolutely bizarre and a total Loria move. And Jeter comes off like an arrogant jackass in every interview he gives. Samson was kind of that way but at least he had a sense of humor about everything. The Marlins PR department needs to work with him on that if he's going to be the public face of the franchise. I just hope he can put his ego aside a little bit and listen to them.

I'll give you that Jeter needs to work on his interview skills, never seems to say things the way he should but I can forgive that if he's still doing the right things behind the scenes.

 

The Chip Bowers firing was very bizarre but we also don't know what led to that behind the scenes, I really feel there's more to the story that we don't know. Jeter implied that Bowers just wasn't getting the job done and while at first that seems very odd I also think that if it's true then good... because "put in the work or you're gone" isn't exactly a bad message to send to the rest of your organization both on and off the field.

 

Edit: Saw your response above, I think we're taking two different routes to agree on the same thing about Bowers' firing. It's weird unless there's more to it.

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19 hours ago, tubby34 said:

 

15 hours ago, dont care said:

I wouldn’t look too deeply into that, the astros BP Jersey they wear in games goes for the same amount.

Teams dont sell true BP jerseys anymore, most of the BP gear is pullovers and shirts.  Even the ST jerseys are "normal" price.

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22 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

I'll give you that Jeter needs to work on his interview skills, never seems to say things the way he should but I can forgive that if he's still doing the right things behind the scenes.

 

Is he though? Serious question. I'm really not so sure. There is zero positive buzz surrounding the team right now and attendance might very well decline from what it was last season. I've been a diehard Marlins fan since 1993 and lately I've been more tempted to tune in to watch the Rays than the Marlins.

 

Could be the team be decent in a few years? Yes, perhaps, but there is a long way to go and some of the acquired pieces like Brinson are on the verge of becoming busts.

 

 

22 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

The Chip Bowers firing was very bizarre but we also don't know what led to that behind the scenes, I really feel there's more to the story that we don't know. Jeter implied that Bowers just wasn't getting the job done and while at first that seems very odd I also think that if it's true then good... because "put in the work or you're gone" isn't exactly a bad message to send to the rest of your organization both on and off the field.

We don't know what behind the scenes, but we usually didn't know for the bizarre Loria moves, either. I see now reason to take what Jeter said at face value. It could have been a clash of egos for all we know. Perhaps Jeter wanted a yes-man and Bowers wouldn't play ball like Michael Hill seems to? The move strikes me as being very knee-jerk and reactionary. As an outsider, it seemed like Bowers worked his ass off and had a very public role. I see no way to justify what appears to be a pretty irrational decision.

 

Even more discomforting is Jeter stubbornly sticking with Gary Denbo, whose boorish behavior has been the subject of several articles now. The man seems unhinged and guilty of sustaining a toxic work environment. The Yankees weren't going to renew his contract for this reason and then Jeter goes ahead and hires him for an even more powerful position.

 

Jeter won't lose me as a fan unless something crazy happens like relocation (very very unlikely), but he can lose the amount of money and time I invest into the team. He's doing that already and I'm someone who fully supported the decision to dump Stanton's bloated contract.

 

I am starting to wonder if Jeter's smugness and stubbornness might have also led to Yelich and Realmuto demanding trades. We don't know what happened behind the scenes, but I get the impression that Jeter did not adequately communicate with these players about their statuses and the direction of the franchise. It seems possible, and just a hunch, that Jeter's arrogant "take it or leave it" mentality led to the Marlins trading Yelich despite having a very team friendly contract.

 

Jeter got rid of the HR sculpture, so that's kind of cool, I guess.

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*continues to give Jeter the benefit of the doubt after he’s stripped the personality and colour from the ballpark, dressed them in black alternates with unreadable script, numbers, and logos, bizarrely fires front office personnel, and put together the worst team in the Majors*

 

You do you I guess. 

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Merge the Marlins and Rays, create the AL Miami Marlins (combined records of both teams). Pay the rest of The Trop’s lease from the comforts of Miami.

 

Use the open NL expansion slot on Montréal/Portland/whatever market can get an expansion team/stadium together quickly enough.

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48 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

*continues to give Jeter the benefit of the doubt after he’s stripped the personality and colour from the ballpark, dressed them in black alternates with unreadable script, numbers, and logos, bizarrely fires front office personnel, and put together the worst team in the Majors*

 

You do you I guess. 

I trust him "doing what he has to do" because I fully understand the disaster of an organization that he inherited. Bumps along the way were expected, I'm not jumping ship a year in just because the trip hasn't been easy. That's not me, sorry to disappoint you.

 

The inverse of that would be giving up at the first sign of trouble when this is clearly gonna be a long and painful process... if you or anyone else wanna do that then go right ahead, you do you.

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40 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

Is he though? Serious question. I'm really not so sure.

I feel more confident that he is than he isn't but that's me. I don't blame anyone for doubting. Time will tell.

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1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

I trust him "doing what he has to do" because I fully understand the disaster of an organization that he inherited. Bumps along the way were expected, I'm not jumping ship a year in just because the trip hasn't been easy. That's not me, sorry to disappoint you.

 

The inverse of that would be giving up at the first sign of trouble when this is clearly gonna be a long and painful process... if you or anyone else wanna do that then go right ahead, you do you.

I don't advocate "giving up" on the team and have already accepted that this will be a long and painful process. He's inherited a mess of an organization and there will certainly be bumps along the way, but lately he's been digging more potholes, not smoothing them out.

 

I am beginning to think he's in over his head and that he severely underestimated the difficulty entailed in righting the ship. Talent wise, it's certainly possible that they field a decent team in 2-3 years. That's never been off the table for me. But he's been doing a poor job of improving the franchise culture and the negative perceptions that people have of it.

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That perception will not change until they start winning. I remember when the Astros were in the midst of rebuilding and their ownership was being criticized for not spending their record profit on improving their roster. People who don’t understand the process and those who like to get a jab in will do so. Jeter and co have not been perfect but it’s still too early to judge the rebuild.

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52 minutes ago, marlinfan said:

That perception will not change until they start winning. I remember when the Astros were in the midst of rebuilding and their ownership was being criticized for not spending their record profit on improving their roster.

Correct. The hindsight way of changing the perception is what sucks though.

 

The Astros fans/baseball fans while rebuilding: "This team and ownership sucks I hate them they have no clue what they're doing!"

 

Astros fans/baseball fans once the rebuild is complete and successful: "OMG Astros are the best, they were so smart to rebuild, I knew they would always be this good!"

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While I do think fans will come back (not necessarily pack the house) if the Marlins starts winning again, the team still has to do more in the interim to keep the team engaged and "trust the process." Keeping Mike Hill & Denbo (in light of the rampant allegations) and firing Bowers in apparent kneejerk fashion just remind everyone of Loria. Jeter needs to work on regaining trust. Current streams of revenue or lack thereof matter, especially while they are on the verge of negotiating stadium naming rights and a new TV deal. Ratings have a tiny uptick from last season but they are still worst in baseball and considerably lower than the Rays ratings. You can call South Florida a fair weather market all you want and expect fans to come back in 2022 if the Marlins have some star talent on the field and aren't out of the playoff race by April, but the Marlins need to be working hard to regain trust and signal to fans that the new regime is different from the last. Aside from the firesale there are a lot of disturbing parallels cropping up that are likely giving fans Loria flashbacks.

 

Again, I'm someone who fully comprehends why they moved Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto, etc, but I've never been so stricken with apathy in all of my years as a Marlins fan. I'm watching less games on TV, will likely go to the park much less frequently, and not buying any merchandise at the team store. And I'm someone who attended 30-40 games some seasons at Joe Robbie.

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On 5/13/2019 at 12:21 PM, Ice_Cap said:

*continues to give Jeter the benefit of the doubt after he’s stripped the personality and colour from the ballpark, dressed them in black alternates with unreadable script, numbers, and logos, bizarrely fires front office personnel, and put together the worst team in the Majors*

 

You do you I guess. 

 

I don't miss any of the "personality" that was stripped from the ballpark. The building reflects Miami more than it ever has. The yellows, reds, and greens represented Loria's favorite artist more than Miami. As a venue, the renovations improved the experience. Fans are closer to the playing field. Flow around the concourses is easier. Concessions feature local favorites.

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13 hours ago, marlinfan said:

 

I don't miss any of the "personality" that was stripped from the ballpark. The building reflects Miami more than it ever has. The yellows, reds, and greens represented Loria's favorite artist more than Miami. As a venue, the renovations improved the experience. Fans are closer to the playing field. Flow around the concourses is easier. Concessions feature local favorites.

Get out of here with that positive thinking of the Marlins, only negativity is welcome here. 

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21 hours ago, CaliforniaGlowin said:

Even having two Florida teams play each other does not help attendance.  Hmph.

In truth, Florida should not have two franchises given how pervasive the transplant culture is. The sad reality is that according to a New York Times analysis of social media data, the Marlins and Rays are not even the two most popular teams in the state (the Yankees and Red Sox are). The Rays are more popular than the Marlins, ranked 4th.

 

Of course Tampa/St. Pete and South Florida really aren't close markets in the sense that San Francisco and Oakland are, but I wish that the Marlins could have the entire state's TV coverage. I am actually wondering if the Rays already reach more households.

 

Baseball can potentially thrive in Florida. It just takes consistent winning, a trustworthy ownership, and a marketing plan that brings in new or younger fans to break away from the transplant cycle.

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1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

In truth, Florida should not have two franchises given how pervasive the transplant culture is. The sad reality is that according to a New York Times analysis of social media data, the Marlins and Rays are not even the two most popular teams in the state (the Yankees and Red Sox are). The Rays are more popular than the Marlins, ranked 4th.

 

Of course Tampa/St. Pete and South Florida really aren't close markets in the sense that San Francisco and Oakland are, but I wish that the Marlins could have the entire state's TV coverage. I am actually wondering if the Rays already reach more households.

 

Baseball can potentially thrive in Florida. It just takes consistent winning, a trustworthy ownership, and a marketing plan that brings in new or younger fans to break away from the transplant cycle.

I'm pretty sure the split of Florida for the Fox Sports Networks (Sun and Florida) keeps Miami and South Florida on their own and Tampa Bay/Orlando get the rest.  The only areas im not sure of is the Fort Myers/SW Florida region.

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4 hours ago, AstroBull21 said:

I'm pretty sure the split of Florida for the Fox Sports Networks (Sun and Florida) keeps Miami and South Florida on their own and Tampa Bay/Orlando get the rest.  The only areas im not sure of is the Fort Myers/SW Florida region.

Yes, this why the Marlins would benefit immensely from a Rays relocation. They would basically have monopoly over the South Florida, Tampa, and Orlando television markets. The Marlins could probably negotiate a killer television contract, providing a comfortable revenue stream to invest in talent until the locals come back to the park.

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Rachel Phelps is obviously ordering management to tank it so she can move the team back to Cleveland.

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