SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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Down here in (actual) Miami we get both FOX Florida and FOX Sun so we get both the Marlins and the Rays. I believe the Marlins can be seen in the Tampa/St Petersburg/Orlando region as well but I don't know that for sure. No clue about the northern part of the state though.

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1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Down here in (actual) Miami we get both FOX Florida and FOX Sun so we get both the Marlins and the Rays. I believe the Marlins can be seen in the Tampa/St Petersburg/Orlando region as well but I don't know that for sure. No clue about the northern part of the state though.

There are definitely parts of the state that get both, but of course the Marlins ratings would get a sizable boost if there were no competition.

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48 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

There are definitely parts of the state that get both, but of course the Marlins ratings would get a sizable boost if there were no competition.

 

Have you read Stadium for Rent? I know I keep mentioning it, but it really is a fascinating book in describing how the Marlins’ expansion bid overtook Tampa Bay efforts and how Tampa Bay media saw the Marlins as an obstacle in landing a team. 

 

Anyway, it describes how Huizenga privately opposed expansion to Tampa Bay and the proposed Mariners and Giants relocations (despite being one of the few owners who voted for Naimoli’s bid to buy the Giants), to the point of wanting financial compensation.

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8 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Have you read Stadium for Rent? I know I keep mentioning it, but it really is a fascinating book in describing how the Marlins’ expansion bid overtook Tampa Bay efforts and how Tampa Bay media saw the Marlins as an obstacle in landing a team. 

 

Anyway, it describes how Huizenga privately opposed expansion to Tampa Bay and the proposed Mariners and Giants relocations (despite being one of the few owners who voted for Naimoli’s bid to buy the Giants), to the point of wanting financial compensation.

I have not read the book but I am familiar with that general narrative despite not knowing the small details. Thanks, I will have to check it out.

 

Huizenga might have been shrewd in trying to block expansion or relocation to Tampa, but I don't think that the area was any more deserving of getting a franchise than Miami was despite Tampa possibly waiting in line longer. Tampa had a stadium built for baseball, but Joe Robbie was designed with the idea in mind that baseball in Miami was inevitable. Both Tampa and Miami markets are plagued with similar issues involving sizable transplant fan populations. Tampa had constructed a climate controlled facility but Joe Robbie was in a much better location. Having a second Florida franchise was not wise, but this is partially in hindsight. The Marlins' attendance woes did not rear their head until after the Rays were approved for expansion.

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2 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Down here in (actual) Miami we get both FOX Florida and FOX Sun so we get both the Marlins and the Rays. I believe the Marlins can be seen in the Tampa/St Petersburg/Orlando region as well but I don't know that for sure. No clue about the northern part of the state though.

 

1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

There are definitely parts of the state that get both, but of course the Marlins ratings would get a sizable boost if there were no competition.

 

I believe FS Sun is the Central Florida primary network (Rays/Magic/Lightning) and FS Florida is primary for South Florida (Marlins/Heat/Panthers).

 

I live in Hillsborough County in the suburbs east of Tampa, and my parents live north of Clearwater in Pasco County and we do get both Rays and Marlins games.  When theres a conflict in networks (ie. if two of the three of Rays/Magic/Lightning playing on at the same time) they'll shift someone to FS Florida, and I believe some carriers (maybe all, I havent looked) have sub channels for FS Sun and FS Florida that then carry the South Florida area games.  On the other hand, we rarely see Heat and Panthers games even when there's nothing else to broadcast.

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28 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

I have not read the book but I am familiar with that general narrative despite not knowing the small details. Thanks, I will have to check it out.

 

Huizenga might have been shrewd in trying to block expansion or relocation to Tampa, but I don't think that the area was any more deserving of getting a franchise than Miami was despite Tampa possibly waiting in line longer. Tampa had a stadium built for baseball, but Joe Robbie was designed with the idea in mind that baseball in Miami was inevitable. Both Tampa and Miami markets are plagued with similar issues involving sizable transplant fan populations. Tampa had constructed a climate controlled facility but Joe Robbie was in a much better location. Having a second Florida franchise was not wise, but this is partially in hindsight. The Marlins' attendance woes did not rear their head until after the Rays were approved for expansion.

I dont feel that adding a second Florida team hurt the Marlins, no one outside of the tri county South Florida areas (and maybe a few counties just outside of that hub) would embrace the Marlins.  if anything, the rest of Florida would keep it's transient nature, continue to support the Braves (as it seemd true before MLB expansion into the state), or embrace one of the spring training clubs around here.  

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1 hour ago, AstroBull21 said:

I dont feel that adding a second Florida team hurt the Marlins, no one outside of the tri county South Florida areas (and maybe a few counties just outside of that hub) would embrace the Marlins.  if anything, the rest of Florida would keep it's transient nature, continue to support the Braves (as it seemd true before MLB expansion into the state), or embrace one of the spring training clubs around here.  

According to that New York Times analysis of social media data I mentioned earlier, the Braves really aren't as popular in Florida as you might expect outside of the northern and panhandle regions. Everywhere else they are rooting for the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

If the Rays vanish, I don't expect all of their fans to transform into Marlins fans, but the Marlins would get greater coverage in terms of households and would likely get some kind of ratings boost, resulting in a more lucrative contract. Those fans refusing to pay for MLB TV or Extra Innings will want some kind of local team to tune in on and watch. So I agree with you that the Marlins wouldn't simply take over the Rays market so easily, but they would surely benefit from it.

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3 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

According to that New York Times analysis of social media data I mentioned earlier, the Braves really aren't as popular in Florida as you might expect outside of the northern and panhandle regions. Everywhere else they are rooting for the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

If the Rays vanish, I don't expect all of their fans to transform into Marlins fans, but the Marlins would get greater coverage in terms of households and would likely get some kind of ratings boost, resulting in a more lucrative contract. Those fans refusing to pay for MLB TV or Extra Innings will want some kind of local team to tune in on and watch. So I agree with you that the Marlins wouldn't simply take over the Rays market so easily, but they would surely benefit from it.

All of my comments in the post you quoted were based on "in the past" pre-1998 when the Rays came around and if they never existed.  The Braves DID have a solid foothold back then.  Nowadays, you are correct not so much.  

 

Yes, of course if the Rays didnt exist the Marlins would likely have a bump but not widespread.

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1 minute ago, AstroBull21 said:

All of my comments in the post you quoted were based on "in the past" pre-1998 when the Rays came around and if they never existed.  The Braves DID have a solid foothold back then.  Nowadays, you are correct not so much.  

 

Yes, of course if the Rays didnt exist the Marlins would likely have a bump but not widespread.

I see your point about the Braves. Yes, I could imagine that there were more Braves fans there pre-1998, but I wouldn't be so sure that it would revert back to that. This was back when Atlanta was the "team of the 90s" and Braves games on TBS were widely telecast. The key issue for me here is how many households the Marlins would reach and how much of a monopoly they would have over the airwaves outside of premium subscription services.

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On 5/16/2019 at 1:46 PM, AstroBull21 said:

I'm pretty sure the split of Florida for the Fox Sports Networks (Sun and Florida) keeps Miami and South Florida on their own and Tampa Bay/Orlando get the rest.  The only areas im not sure of is the Fort Myers/SW Florida region.

 

I thought both channels are covered statewide with the NBA rights flipped so there aren't as many overflow issues, i.e., the Magic are with the Marlins and Panthers while the Heat are with the Bolts and Rays. And then with territorial blackouts it all works itself out.

 

I believe Texas has coterminous territorial rights for the Rangers and Astros, or at least they did when the teams were in separate leagues. That would be the right thing to do for the Florida teams.

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2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Have you read Stadium for Rent? I know I keep mentioning it, but it really is a fascinating book in describing how the Marlins’ expansion bid overtook Tampa Bay efforts and how Tampa Bay media saw the Marlins as an obstacle in landing a team. 

 

Anyway, it describes how Huizenga privately opposed expansion to Tampa Bay and the proposed Mariners and Giants relocations (despite being one of the few owners who voted for Naimoli’s bid to buy the Giants), to the point of wanting financial compensation.

That’s a great book.  Very comprehensive history of the pursuit of bseball in the TB area.  Wish there was a companion piece that updated it post Giants bid.  Maybe there is.  The one I read ended with Naimolis lawsuit after his Giants purchase was voided 

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14 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

All of my comments in the post you quoted were based on "in the past" pre-1998 when the Rays came around and if they never existed.  The Braves DID have a solid foothold back then.  Nowadays, you are correct not so much.  

 

Yes, of course if the Rays didnt exist the Marlins would likely have a bump but not widespread.

 

There is little to no interest in South Florida sports teams in central Florida.  The two areas don’t identify with one another 

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Sounds like the Yanks and/or Red Sox need to play in Miami every season! haha  They might actually get that stadium half full.

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6 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

I thought both channels are covered statewide with the NBA rights flipped so there aren't as many overflow issues, i.e., the Magic are with the Marlins and Panthers while the Heat are with the Bolts and Rays. And then with territorial blackouts it all works itself out.

 

I believe Texas has coterminous territorial rights for the Rangers and Astros, or at least they did when the teams were in separate leagues. That would be the right thing to do for the Florida teams.

 

Pretty sure here in Fort Myers we get both the Rays and Marlins. 

 

I use my parents cable login however for Fox Sports. They are in Venice (hour north of Fort Myers) and they get the Magic, Rays, Lightning and Marlins, but not the Heat or Panthers. 

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Yeah, every league has different territories. I believe the Panthers have the smallest territory by area in the league: up to Melbourne on the ocean side and up to Fort Myers on the gulf side.

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19 hours ago, AstroBull21 said:

 

 

I believe FS Sun is the Central Florida primary network (Rays/Magic/Lightning) and FS Florida is primary for South Florida (Marlins/Heat/Panthers).

 

I live in Hillsborough County in the suburbs east of Tampa, and my parents live north of Clearwater in Pasco County and we do get both Rays and Marlins games.  When theres a conflict in networks (ie. if two of the three of Rays/Magic/Lightning playing on at the same time) they'll shift someone to FS Florida, and I believe some carriers (maybe all, I havent looked) have sub channels for FS Sun and FS Florida that then carry the South Florida area games.  On the other hand, we rarely see Heat and Panthers games even when there's nothing else to broadcast.

It’s the opposite. The Magic are always on FS Florida no matter what, the Rays will be on FS Florida unless there’s a conflict (then they’ll be on Sun), and I don’t know about the Lightning but I assume it’s the same for them. The Buccaneers are on FS Florida, Dolphins on FS Sun. We never get Heat games, but we do get Panthers, and they’re on FS Sun.

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46 minutes ago, Magic Dynasty said:

It’s the opposite. The Magic are always on FS Florida no matter what, the Rays will be on FS Florida unless there’s a conflict (then they’ll be on Sun), and I don’t know about the Lightning but I assume it’s the same for them. The Buccaneers are on FS Florida, Dolphins on FS Sun. We never get Heat games, but we do get Panthers, and they’re on FS Sun.

Maybe Orlando market flips things around, but Rays are strictly FS Sun here in Tampa market.  I presume they have the ability to float feeds if necessary in certain areas.  Lightning are also on FS Sun, but when there’s a conflict between Rays and Bolts one goes to FS Florida.

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I wonder what happens first?  The Rays getting a new stadium or the NBA actually announcing expansion?  At this rate, it's probably the latter.

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On 5/13/2019 at 12:46 PM, SilverBullet1929 said:

I trust him "doing what he has to do" because I fully understand the disaster of an organization that he inherited. Bumps along the way were expected, I'm not jumping ship a year in just because the trip hasn't been easy. That's not me, sorry to disappoint you.

 

The inverse of that would be giving up at the first sign of trouble when this is clearly gonna be a long and painful process... if you or anyone else wanna do that then go right ahead, you do you.

Your problem is that you’re treating it as a binary of “I trust him” or “jump ship at the first sign of trouble.”

You don’t need to go with either. You could wait and see. Which, from my vantage point, is prudent given the results of his actions thus far. 

 

On 5/14/2019 at 9:52 PM, marlinfan said:

 

I don't miss any of the "personality" that was stripped from the ballpark. The building reflects Miami more than it ever has. The yellows, reds, and greens represented Loria's favorite artist more than Miami. As a venue, the renovations improved the experience. Fans are closer to the playing field. Flow around the concourses is easier. Concessions feature local favorites.

🤷‍♂️

I'm not sure how grey, black, salmon, and blue are more “Miami” then the vibrant colour scheme Loria had. The stadium just seems like more of Jeter trying to remove anything that made the team even remotely interesting. 

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4 hours ago, GDAWG said:

I wonder what happens first?  The Rays getting a new stadium or the NBA actually announcing expansion?  At this rate, it's probably the latter.

More likely the latter, atleast an nhl team is moving into Seattle now, nba won’t be far behind

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