SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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5 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Your problem is that you’re treating it as a binary of “I trust him” or “jump ship at the first sign of trouble.”

You don’t need to go with either. You could wait and see. Which, from my vantage point, is prudent given the results of his actions thus far. 

 

🤷‍♂️

Imm not sure how grey, black, salmon, and blue are more “Miami” then the vibrant colour scheme Loria had. The stadium just seems like more of Jeter trying to remove anything that made the team even remotely interesting. 

 

The green was bad and Loria should feel bad!

 

Why did that have to be the dominant color inside?

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On 5/18/2019 at 2:09 PM, Ice_Cap said:

Your problem is that you’re treating it as a binary of “I trust him” or “jump ship at the first sign of trouble.”

You don’t need to go with either. You could wait and see. Which, from my vantage point, is prudent given the results of his actions thus far. 

I am waiting and seeing, every day, multiple times a day. It's part of being an actual die-hard Marlins fan. This is my team for 27 seasons now, for better or worse. At the same time, yes I'm more optimistic than most, I admit that. But please don't assume I agree with everything Jeter and the new ownership has done either. 

 

I trust in what he's doing (or is trying to do) but that doesn't mean I blindly agree with everything he's done either.

 

I don't consider my way of looking at things as a problem.

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On 5/18/2019 at 2:09 PM, Ice_Cap said:

I'm not sure how grey, black, salmon, and blue are more “Miami” then the vibrant colour scheme Loria had. The stadium just seems like more of Jeter trying to remove anything that made the team even remotely interesting. 

 

Screenshot_20190326-203654_Instagram.jpgScreenshot_20190326-203640_Instagram.jpgScreenshot_20190326-173743_Instagram.jpg

a9tNfVQ.jpg

Have you actually walked through the concourse of the renovated Marlins Park? There are loads of vibrant color all over Marlins Park now. They removed the Loria color scheme but still injected color all over the place. Each food stand has it's own design and color scheme. It's not boring and lifeless. Don't judge until you've actually seen it.

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7 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

 

 

Team_Homer_25.JPG

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I'd definitely buy a Marlins hat or t-shirt if they weren't an NL East division rival of my Nats.

 

To me, the Marlins' previous orange-black-yellow-teal identity screamed "trying too hard." I think their new colors and uniforms (and changes to their ballpark) are a real improvement.

 

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Rapper Denzel Curry is rocking the teal on his latest album cover. I hope this is part of a new trend because it's such a gorgeous jersey.

 

Denzel-Curry.jpeg

 

 

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:01 AM, SilverBullet1929 said:

Have you actually walked through the concourse of the renovated Marlins Park?

Seems far less lively than pre-Jeter. 

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:02 PM, CaliforniaGlowin said:

I want to go to there!

 

Honestly one of favorite stadium experiences - attended last year, pre-renovation. Going again this June. 

 

My opinion could also be skewed by the fact I saw a game at the Trop 2 months prior. The mosquito-infested little league field I played on as a kid was better than the Trop. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 12:35 PM, SFGiants58 said:

Merge the Marlins and Rays, create the AL Miami Marlins (combined records of both teams). Pay the rest of The Trop’s lease from the comforts of Miami.

 

Use the open NL expansion slot on Montréal/Portland/whatever market can get an expansion team/stadium together quickly enough.

 

It'd be far simpler to just move the Rays to whichever other city they choose.

---

I'm late to chime in on some of the talk (haven't been here in a while), but I went to a game a few weeks ago, and they had the black tops on.  The uniforms were completely illegible from the stands.  I also have photos I took of the park updates/renovations if anyone is interested?

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Starting to wonder if the Marlins are going to be the new Padres - tweaking and changing their uniforms every couple of years trying to find something new, while their original color remains what everyone associates them with and what most fans want. 

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36 minutes ago, mmajeski06 said:

Starting to wonder if the Marlins are going to be the new Padres - tweaking and changing their uniforms every couple of years trying to find something new, while their original color remains what everyone associates them with and what most fans want. 

I was thinking the very same thing when I read the article about the Padres rebranding. There are surely some fans happy or satisfied with the current look, but I'm quite confident that the majority of the fanbase would rather have the original teal and black set upgraded for everyday use. I just don't detect much enthusiasm at all for the new Marlins rebranding although I wouldn't say that it's been outright panned. It's been received rather lukewarm overall.

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12 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I was thinking the very same thing when I read the article about the Padres rebranding. There are surely some fans happy or satisfied with the current look, but I'm quite confident that the majority of the fanbase would rather have the original teal and black set upgraded for everyday use. I just don't detect much enthusiasm at all for the new Marlins rebranding although I wouldn't say that it's been outright panned. It's been received rather lukewarm overall.

 

There are problems I have with both the Rockies and Royals' branding, but I really appreciate how they started with one look when they were founded and stuck with it. There have been adaptations and trend-chasings (powder blue road uniforms and BFBS for the Royals, along with road pinstripes and those vests for the Rockies), but both teams look largely the same through the years. It's a kind of consistency that the Marlins and Padres really should strive to achieve, go back the original and clean it up to fit with current design sensibilities (e.g., no all-yellow or all-brown uniforms and maybe fewer outlines on the wordmarks/lettering). @raysox has come up with a formula to describe this sort of trajectory. Per his thread

 

Quote

I noticed a trend with the expansion era MLB teams. It came and went with trends in graphic design, fashion, merchandising, and nostalgia.

 

PHASE 1: A strong brand in the  70s and 80s. Establishes for decades without change, as teams create fans. Noticeable cartoony logos, bright colors, and simple design.Phase1.png

PHASE 2: The world became dark, and extreme. Teams ditched their brands for expanded merchandise options and better t-shirt printing.

Phase2.png

PHASE 3: Turns out the 90s were rough on design, and it might be worth completely adjusting what defines your team.

Phase3.png

PHASE 4: People miss the simple design, and we can sell much more merchandise than we had been.

Phase4.png

 

Now, i'm certainly simplifying things. Not every team can fit into this formula. The Twins and Royals have refined their Phase 1. The Mariners need a refresh from their Phase 2 set. The Angels are in Phase 3 and I wish they'd bring back the California Angels branding. The Rockies are holding strong in Phase 2. The Marlins are sprinting towards this pattern. The Diamondbacks just love playing with colors.


There's also this.

PHASES2.jpg

 

 

While I disagree with some of his assessments (the Rockies are a Phase 1 team still), he's right to note that the Marlins are firmly in Phase 3. They tried to "fix" the sins of Loria's designs, all the while making something just as messy (albeit in different ways). Like many Phase 3 designs, it has potential while being poorly-realized on the uniform.

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My strong preference for the Marlins reverting back to a look resembling what they wore between 1993 and 2002 is pretty well known here, but I understand why the Marlins have not sustained a consistent identity, even if I disagree with it.

 

Much of this comes down to them moving into a new ballpark in Miami proper (and the ensuing name change). From the very beginning, the front office and MLB seemed dead set on marketing the team's new Miami-ness and not caring much about the actual baseball heritage, despite having already won two World Series. This is plainly obvious through the color choices and the decision to put a "Miami" wordmark on the home whites (talking about both the 2012 and 2019 rebrandings here). I've often joked that they might as well rename the team the "Miami Miamians of Miami" at this point. I think this is an ill-advised and poorly conceived marketing strategy for many reasons, but it's worth pointing out that it hasn't seemed to work out for them so far anyway. Fans don't necessarily want a team that feels "very Miami" or caters to the nightclub crowd; they want a stable, winning baseball culture that they can be proud of.

 

MLB and the incoming/outgoing ownership groups have consistently underestimated the level of nostalgia fans have for the Florida Marlins years, not even just for the championship seasons. Based on how things have been going since the move to the new ballpark, I've heard a surprising number of fans relay their fond memories from the late 00s--the Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla, and Cody Ross years. Probably the last stretch of seasons when the team was actually fun to watch. If the Marlins were smart, they'd try to exploit this nostalgia. Constantly hitting the reset button on the team's visual identity/branding has the adverse effect of feeling as aimless and disorienting as the fire sales have been. All of this talk about needing to "look forward, not backward" (blah blah) in terms of the rebranding is just a bunch of empty rhetoric. I could understand it if there weren't nostalgia, but there almost certainly is.

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Yeah, lots of good points there. I agree that a nightclub-themed baseball uniform is a losing play, but I don't think they were wrong to redesign for the move downtown. The 2003 uniforms had to go, Dan Uggla fondness notwithstanding.

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3 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Yeah, lots of good points there. I agree that a nightclub-themed baseball uniform is a losing play, but I don't think they were wrong to redesign for the move downtown. The 2003 uniforms had to go, Dan Uggla fondness notwithstanding.

I don't think they could have preserved the logo and uniforms exactly for practical reasons. Having said that, they should have kept teal (and giving it the prominence it had pre-2003) and come up with uniform concepts that were clearly in the spirit of or spin-offs from the Florida Marlins design. Obviously the cap logo would need to be scratched entirely. I'm very fond of the original wordmark, but would have been satisfied with something new as long as it was teal.

 

Something closer to a middle-ground, perhaps with a slight edge toward Phase 1 (1993-2002), would have clearly worked the best. I just hope that the team and MLB come to their senses soon and realize that they are marketing baseball culture, not a city.

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1 minute ago, the admiral said:

Yeah, lots of good points there. I agree that a nightclub-themed baseball uniform is a losing play, but I don't think they were wrong to redesign for the move downtown. The 2003 uniforms had to go, Dan Uggla fondness notwithstanding.

 

That's 2014 World Series Champion Dan Uggla to you! 🤣

 

I get wanting to redesign for the move to Little Havana and embracing an Art Deco/MiMo style. However, they went about it in the worst way possible. The messy shadows, the number font that didn't match at all, and the "toothpaste marlin" all produced a lackluster set. Yeah, they could have gone away from the black base, but the wordmarks were still a mess.

 

Said move to Marlins Park included the post-2012 fire sale, Stanton's albatross contract and subsequent trade, Ozzie Guillen alienating Cuban-Americans, the trades of MVP candidates like Yelich, and the team's best pitcher getting coked up and killing himself/several others in a boating accident. No real moments of contention, a white elephant stadium with gaudy decorations, and these previously-listed difficulties insured that there would be no love lost for the 2012-18 uniforms. 

 

The 2019 set just seems like trend-chasing, trying to capture that "Hotline Miami"/vaporwave/Miami Heat Vice alternate "A E S T H E T I C" without understanding what makes it work. The over-dependence on black, uncanny valley cursive scripts, and relative lack of "panache" on the team goes against that style. It's less messy than the faux-MiMo of 2012-18, but it doesn't capture those few good moments in the team's history. 

 

I suggest trying to merge a bit of the 1993-02 style with some "Miami" influences. A real cursive script on the home uniform that says "Marlins" (since the Miami identity really isn't working for them), along with an Art Deco/MiMo-styled font for lettering in teal/black/silver would be a winner. Just clean up some of the 1993-02 conventions (e.g., teal-billed black caps, fewer outlines on the wordmarks/lettering, and teal numbers/home alternates) and you're good.

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1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

I don't think they could have preserved the logo and uniforms exactly for practical reasons. Having said that, they should have kept teal (and giving it the prominence it had pre-2003) and come up with uniform concepts that were clearly in the spirit of or spin-offs from the Florida Marlins design. Obviously the cap logo would need to be scratched entirely. I'm very fond of the original wordmark, but would have been satisfied with something new as long as it was teal.

 

I’m honestly curious - it sounds like the only real thing you care about is the color teal vs any other shade of light blue. You have expressed a willingness to scrap everything else about the original uniforms except that color.  Everything else is negotiable. Do I understand your position correctly?

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19 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I’m honestly curious - it sounds like the only real thing you care about is the color teal vs any other shade of light blue. You have expressed a willingness to scrap everything else about the original uniforms except that color.  Everything else is negotiable. Do I understand your position correctly?

The original shade of teal is the only element that is 100% essential. Not blue. No black heaviness like they had from 2003 until 2011.

 

After that, I would say that I am not expecting a precise return to the old look because it isn't completely practical by becoming the Miami Marlins. They would need a new primary logo, and cap insignia, and road wordmark to reflect this. But I would want them to replicate the style of the original look as much as possible in new designs without looking forced. Of course I would like to see them do away with things like name plates from the old set. I strongly prefer that they bring back pinstripes and front numbers but that's slightly negotiable. Keep the home wordmark intact, but modernization of secondary design elements of the entire set is definitely acceptable.

 

Ideally this would be similar to Toronto's return to its origins but extra consideration taken to account for the Miami vs. Florida Marlins distinction.

 

I dont know what to do about the cap insignia. I want the original fish design back but not shoehorned into the M from the wordmark as seen in that old early 00s BP cap. This is the area where I'd be most inclined to welcome a new design change but of course it needs to be consistent with the old look.

 

This is best case scenario mind you. I'd probably compromise more toward the middle but that's mostly because I loathe the new rebranding so fervently. I refuse to buy any piece of merchandise from the set.

 

I watched the game in San Diego last night on TV. Almost invariably when they cut to a Marlins fan in the stands, they were wearing teal. The nostalgia is real so let's stop screwing around. This is why I empathize with Brewers, Padres, and Twins fans so much. They all cherish earlier looks even if fans from other teams don't quite "get it."

 

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2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

I suggest trying to merge a bit of the 1993-02 style with some "Miami" influences. A real cursive script on the home uniform that says "Marlins" (since the Miami identity really isn't working for them), along with an Art Deco/MiMo-styled font for lettering in teal/black/silver would be a winner. Just clean up some of the 1993-02 conventions (e.g., teal-billed black caps, fewer outlines on the wordmarks/lettering, and teal numbers/home alternates) and you're good.

This sounds fantastic, actually. I'd need to see the wordmark concepts though but I'd be receptive to this.

 

I know some people here don't like the original workmark, but I think it's great. It's a refreshing departure from the typical cursive designs we see from around the league. It doesn't have an old timey look, which I appreciate. Of course it might break some rules but somehow manages to completely work. At least for me.

 

The current script is so generic, which is probably why it feels so uncanny valley.

 

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