SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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7 hours ago, THRILLHO said:

However what I’m relaying in my post is that many long time fans of the team (people that were watching from day one) would prefer to see the players wearing red and black on the regular 

You’re engaging in the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. 

 

You do not speak for Heat fans (or Marlins fans) in totality. Nor are you a gatekeeper for “true” Marlins or Heat fandom. 

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7 hours ago, THRILLHO said:

 

I think you and I are talking about two different things.  I think you can draw a distinction between fan apparel and team uniforms.  I’m speaking specifically about the way the players on the court are dressed and you’ve illustrated the way fans have taken to buying merchendise for themselves.  These aren’t the same things.

 

 

You're the one who said you had "spoken to plenty Heat fans" who thought the "theme is waaay overdone". Seems like you were trying to imply that the fans in Miami in general are tired of the colors. I just don't see that when so many fans are spending money on gear and wearing it proudly. Whether they're wearing it at Vice games are not, the theme and colors are obviously a success.

 

 

7 hours ago, THRILLHO said:

This is where I think our conversation is at the moment.  Sure fans like the shirts.  Also if they know the team is wearing it that day they’ll wear the Vice shirts.  (Maybe we should check back later this year once they go back to their regular uniforms and court to see how the crowd is dressed then).  However what I’m relaying in my post is that many long time fans of the team (people that were watching from day one) would prefer to see the players wearing red and black on the regular 

 

Now you're trying to imply that fans who embrace the colors aren't as die-hard as the ones you say you have spoken to who think they're overdone. I think it's unfair to say that.

 

Bottom line is the colors are a huge success with the fans down there in Miami. It's why the team wears it so much in the first place. The fans in Miami identify with it, and embrace it as their own.

 

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6 hours ago, THRILLHO said:

Since this is a marlins thread I’ll relate this to them with a question.   What kind of response from fans and uniform enthusists do you think would occur if the marlins went 50/50 with their home game uniforms?  Half teal Florida Marlins and half rebranded Miami Marlins. Would MLB even allow it?  I feel like this sort of thing wouldn’t work well in baseball. 

Fans would love it! I don't think the rebrand has been received poorly or anything, but a retro teal addition to the uniform rotation would have generated much more buzz than the rebrand did. If you browse social media pertaining to the rebrand, it seems pretty obvious. I think you'd see slightly more interest in the team if they did that, but not nearly enough to make a noticeable impact on attendance. I also have a hunch that Florida Marlins merchandise would sell really well in the stadium store.

 

Regular throwback nights would be received really well, but I can understand why Jeter might be hesitant. It would undermine the rebrand too much.

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5 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

If you browse social media pertaining to the rebrand

 

That’s usually a pretty bad way to evaluate anything.  

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16 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

That’s usually a pretty bad way to evaluate anything.  

Well would you disagree that the Marlins fanbase would be ecstatic if vintage teal were brought back in some form? Your personal taste aside, of course.

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35 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

Well would you disagree that the Marlins fanbase would be ecstatic if vintage teal were brought back in some form? Your personal taste aside, of course.

 

I honestly don't know the fanbase well enough to say.  That wasn't my point.

 

But I do know that social media is one small self-selected segment of a larger group, and opinions expressed therein should never be confused as being representative of that larger group.  Even when I do agree with them. ;) 

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29 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I honestly don't know the fanbase well enough to say.  That wasn't my point.

 

But I do know that social media is one small self-selected segment of a larger group, and opinions expressed therein should never be confused as being representative of that larger group.  Even when I do agree with them. ;) 

Well, there really isn't any data we can consult here so I feel like it's the best way to gauge fan sentiment. It's better than anecdotal evidence ("all of my friends LOVE the new look and have already bought jerseys"). We don't have access to merchandise sales figures but I do remember reading that the 25th anniversary caps sold extremely well, for whatever that's worth.

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2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

I honestly don't know the fanbase well enough to say.  That wasn't my point.

 

But I do know that social media is one small self-selected segment of a larger group, and opinions expressed therein should never be confused as being representative of that larger group.  Even when I do agree with them. ;) 

 

I think you're underestimating how many people are on social media these days. You can definitely get a feel of what's going on with a fan base through it. The sample size is big enough.

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7 hours ago, daveindc said:

 

I think you're underestimating how many people are on social media these days. You can definitely get a feel of what's going on with a fan base through it. The sample size is big enough.

Yes but the only problem with social media is that virtually EVERYONE can get in and give their opinion, including those whose opinions might not be valid to the argument. It's like the old Michael Scott from The Office joke about Wikipedia...

Image result for michael scott wikipedia quote

From one perspective you can argue it's the best but realistically we know that wikipedia has it's problems exactly because anyone can add to it... same issue with social media. 

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3 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Yes but the only problem with social media is that virtually EVERYONE can get in and give their opinion, including those whose opinions might not be valid to the argument. It's like the old Michael Scott from The Office joke about Wikipedia...

Image result for michael scott wikipedia quote

From one perspective you can argue it's the best but realistically we know that wikipedia has it's problems exactly because anyone can add to it... same issue with social media. 

 

Actually, Wikipedia is self-correcting in a way that social media is not. Many studies have demonstrated that Wikipedia is ultimately just as reliable as traditional encyclopedias, such as the Britannica.  Spurious information in Wikipedia tends to get edited out very rapidly.

 

By contrast, a nonsense tweet can stick around essentially forever.

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13 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

Well, there really isn't any data we can consult here so I feel like it's the best way to gauge fan sentiment. It's better than anecdotal evidence ("all of my friends LOVE the new look and have already bought jerseys").

 

But it is anecdotal evidence.  That's the point.

 

Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, they're all the same.  Fun for a laugh, but don't take it seriously, and don't confuse the noise there with anything significant happening in the real world.

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11 hours ago, daveindc said:

I think you're underestimating how many people are on social media these days. You can definitely get a feel of what's going on with a fan base through it. The sample size is big enough.

 

"Sample size" isn't the only problem, it's the breadth of that sample.  It's extremely self-selecting, and therefore isn't actually representative of anything larger than itself.

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1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Actually, Wikipedia is self-correcting in a way that social media is not. Many studies have demonstrated that Wikipedia is ultimately just as reliable as traditional encyclopedias, such as the Britannica.  Spurious information in Wikipedia tends to get edited out very rapidly.

 

By contrast, a nonsense tweet can stick around essentially forever.

Then it proves the social media point even more... I was just using The Office quote as a jumping off point because of what the character "meant" without getting into the specifics of why Wikipedia works to maintain it's accuracy. 

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On 1/6/2019 at 8:40 AM, marlinfan said:

The Heat’s Miami Vice is the hottest thing down here. 

So popular, the Heat official State of Florida licence plate is Vice colors

 

miami_heat.jpg

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41 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

So popular, the Heat official State of Florida licence plate is Vice colors

 

miami_heat.jpg

 

Those hit the streets instantly, been seeing them more and more

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5 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

"Sample size" isn't the only problem, it's the breadth of that sample.  It's extremely self-selecting, and therefore isn't actually representative of anything larger than itself.

 

 

But yet in another thread, when it was pointed out that the Jets' Instagram account sought feedback on the black practice jerseys and it came back mostly negative, you gave that post a "Like".

 

3.1 million people follow the Heat's Instagram account alone. The widest range of people are on social media today. All kinds. Not just a certain type like you're trying to imply. It's not limited like how it was 15-20 years ago.

 

There's even social media groups specifically created for fans to gather and communicate. Often these specific groups will actually meet up at games and events. Real relationships are developed on social media today. For you to disregard today's social media as "nonsense" and "not real life" is actually pretty laughable.

 

 

9 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Yes but the only problem with social media is that virtually EVERYONE can get in and give their opinion, including those whose opinions might not be valid to the argument. It's like the old Michael Scott from The Office joke about Wikipedia...

Image result for michael scott wikipedia quote

From one perspective you can argue it's the best but realistically we know that wikipedia has it's problems exactly because anyone can add to it... same issue with social media. 

 

 

Not sure why you're trying to compare this to Wikipedia, because we're just talking about the opinions of a fan base here, not facts. 

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, daveindc said:

Not sure why you're trying to compare this to Wikipedia, because we're just talking about the opinions of a fan base here, not facts. 

Because that joke about wikipedia says that its accuracy comes from the vast amount of people who are able to contribute to it... which is a fallacy and the same fallacy is true about social media, that the vast amount of people who are on social media makes it a reliable way to gather information about people's opinions.

 

Without getting into specifics, both are false. 

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51 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Because that joke about wikipedia says that its accuracy comes from the vast amount of people who are able to contribute to it... which is a fallacy and the same fallacy is true about social media, that the vast amount of people who are on social media makes it a reliable way to gather information about people's opinions.

 

Without getting into specifics, both are false. 

 

 

The flaw of Wikipedia is incorrect facts. Facts and opinions are two different things. 

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