Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

[skip88]

Wow, seeing these new unis in action makes the previous set look great! And i didn't like that set that much.

 

Home white was really colorful and unique, so was the black. Colors really popped of that black one.

Orange jersey was a bit much, and ruined by the Marlins man. But was not that bad compared to now. 

[jn8]

1 hour ago, skip88 said:

vendetta? LOL.

Jeter and the Marlins traded away the teams best players, and the new uniforms are awful. That is hardly a vendetta, more like common  sense hate toward a terrible person and organization.

You think i am special? Most people feel this way, you are one of the very few that defends him. Instead of claiming i have a vendetta against him, maybe i should ask if you have a crush on him, that would be the only explanation for constantly defending him and his actions. 

I mean, I grew up playing shortstop and idolized Derek Jeter so I’m definitely biased, but yeah, it looks like you have a vendetta against him right now. They traded Stanton because the previous ownership heavily backloaded his contract fully knowing they were going to sell the team by the time the money got bad. After that Yelich, Ozuna, and eventually Realmuto REQUESTED trades. The team traded the best players because they didn’t want to be there so they flipped them for prospects. It’s what rebuilding teams typically do. As for the uniforms, I like them . Sure there’s probably a couple tweaks that could make them better, but as they are now? A solid 7.5-8/10 seems about right, in my opinion. 

 

But who knows, maybe deep down in a place that I don’t even know it I secretly have a crush on Jeter

[SilverBullet1929]

5 hours ago, skip88 said:

vendetta? LOL.

Jeter and the Marlins traded away the teams best players, and the new uniforms are awful. That is hardly a vendetta, more like common  sense hate toward a terrible person and organization.

You think i am special? Most people feel this way, you are one of the very few that defends him. Instead of claiming i have a vendetta against him, maybe i should ask if you have a crush on him, that would be the only explanation for constantly defending him and his actions. 

Serious question, are you a Marlins fan?

 

Because I'm wondering if you enjoyed all those winning seasons and playoff games with all those best players that Jeter traded away. Those teams had great players but the teams sucked. I wanted that team dismantled before Jeter bought it because I was sick of them ALWAYS underperforming... EVERY damn season since 2003. 

 

Yes I'm happy that Jeter is trying to fix this organization, it's not a crush, its logical common sense.

 

I loathe the stupid idea that Jeter should have kept what Loria had going when the team has the 2nd longest playoff drought in MLB today.

 

You claim common sense would be to hate the guy that is trying to fix the disaster of the organization that he bought??? That sounds like ignorance to me... or a personal vendetta. 

 

Answer this: If you buy a car that has four flat tires what sounds like common sense... buy new tires or keep trying to drive the car with the four flat tires? 

[Gothamite]

Yeah, I don’t get all the criticism of Jeter.  He bought a bad team and has been remaking it in an attempt to turn it into a good one.

 

The only thing that makes sense was the poster who called Jeter a New York “carpetbagger”, despite his actually having lived in Florida for a couple decades now.  But aside from that sort of irrational nonsense, I don’t see why some fans are so down on him. 

[SilverBullet1929]

11 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Yeah, I don’t get all the criticism of Jeter.  He bought a bad team and has been remaking it in an attempt to turn it into a good one.

 

The only thing that makes sense was the poster who called Jeter a New York “carpetbagger”, despite his actually having lived in Florida for a couple decades now.  But aside from that sort of irrational nonsense, I don’t see why some fans are so down on him. 

Loria was more of a carpetbagger than Jeter. Loria is a New Yorker with Yankee season tickets who still lives in New York and missed out on many Marlins games/events because he was back in NY so often even during the season. Jeter is more of a Floridian than Loria, living in Tampa but being in Miami for almost every Marlins event and game. 

[Gothamite]

Exactly.  Which is why I thought the criticism was absurd.

 

But as silly as it was, it was still the only rational explanation for some of the criticism I’ve seen on these threads. 

[The_Admiral]

Much like Schrodinger's Cat, everyone in Florida both is and is not a Floridian: Derek Jeter, Donald Trump, IceCap. It's the Sunshine Quantum State.

[SFGiants58]

2 hours ago, the admiral said:

Much like Schrodinger's Cat, everyone in Florida both is and is not a Floridian: Derek Jeter, Donald Trump, IceCap. It's the Sunshine Quantum State.

 

I’m pretty sure Rick Dodge was the only actual Floridian I found in researching the Tampa Bay Sweepstakes.

 

Frank Morsani - Oklahoma

Steve Porter - DC

Sidney Kohl - Wisconsin

Vince Naimoli - New Jersey

Wayne Huizenga - Chicago

Jack Critchfield - West Pennsylvania

 

Given all the cries for “local” ownership, I found it funny.

 

Heck, people will even try to claim that serial killer Aileen Wuornos was a Floridian, even though she spent most of her life in Michigan. Floridian status is weird, man.

[Gothamite]

It’s funny to me, coming from another immigrant paradise.  But New Yorkers are New Yorkers the minute they arrive.  There isn’t any waiting period, they just instantly become one of us.  Conversely, Derek Jeter still isn’t a “genuine” Floridian even decades after he moved there. 

[The_Admiral]

Strongly disagree. Remember that "Brooklyn pizza festival" controversy where a bunch of rubes got scammed into buying one little piece of pizza? Those victims were probably all from Michigan living in the adult theme park of Brooklyn. Real New Yorkers can never be taken for a ride like that: just ask them, God knows they'll tell you.

[IceCap]

4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

Yeah, I don’t get all the criticism of Jeter.  He bought a bad team and has been remaking it in an attempt to turn it into a good one.

I don’t give a crap where he’s from. I’ve outlined my distaste for the Jeter worship...

 

We talked about the uncomfortable notion of Jeter praise while his Jewish business partner is ignored and his Jewish predecessors are demonized. I see where you’re all coming from, but I thought it was important to mention regardless. 

 

The fact that he seems like a joyless bore intent on stripping all the personality from the Marlins. 

 

The fact that he’s unproven. @SilverBullet1929 is going on about how Jeter traded away players from a team that never won to build a team that will win. We don’t know if they will though, or if Jeter is even capable of building a winning team. 

Maybe he is capable, but I feel like people ought to hold off on the praise until he proves he can do it. All of this worship is going to look silly if the Marlins are sitting in the basement of the NL East again. 

 

4 hours ago, the admiral said:

Much like Schrodinger's Cat, everyone in Florida both is and is not a Floridian: Derek Jeter, Donald Trump, IceCap. It's the Sunshine Quantum State.

I would have the best-dressed Florida-based sports team, that’s for sure.

Let’s go Fighting Pirates Mongooses! 

[SilverBullet1929]

20 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The fact that he’s unproven. @SilverBullet1929 is going on about how Jeter traded away players from a team that never won to build a team that will win. We don’t know if they will though, or if Jeter is even capable of building a winning team. 

Maybe he is capable, but I feel like people ought to hold off on the praise until he proves he can do it. All of this worship is going to look silly if the Marlins are sitting in the basement of the NL East again. 

I can agree with this. He hasn't made them a winner yet.

 

But, frustrated with years of incompetence and failure from Loria, I'm ok with giving Jeter a chance before ripping on him. Some, no, MANY have torn Jeter apart from the second he arrived... in my opinion unjustly. There's a difference between patiently waiting to see if he makes a difference and impatiently criticizing him before he gets the chance to prove himself.

 

I also wouldn't classify my support as "worship."

 

I will stress again that I was ready for the Marlins to shake things up BEFORE Jeter bought the team so now that Jeter is doing what I wanted I'm more than ok with giving him the benefit of the doubt through this process. I can also understand the other side of that from those who weren't as ready for a change as I was.

[SilverBullet1929]

2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

It’s funny to me, coming from another immigrant paradise.  But New Yorkers are New Yorkers the minute they arrive.  There isn’t any waiting period, they just instantly become one of us.  Conversely, Derek Jeter still isn’t a “genuine” Floridian even decades after he moved there. 

I myself was born in New York but moved to Miami as a child... am I a New Yorker or a Floridian? Or maybe I'm the carpetbagger? 

[SFGiants58]

16 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I don’t give a crap where he’s from. I’ve outlined my distaste for the Jeter worship...

 

We talked about the uncomfortable notion of Jeter praise while his Jewish business partner is ignored and his Jewish predecessors are demonized. I see where you’re all coming from, but I thought it was important to mention regardless. 

 

I agree to an extent. However, Loria and Samson took greed to new heights during their tenure with the Marlins. They embodied all of the negative stereotypes while taking things a step further, beyond the stereotypes. I'd never use Anti-Semitic language to describe what they did, and I'm sure many of their other critics would avoid it as well. Jeter's business partner doesn't get mentioned because he's not the "face man" of the group (i.e., Peter Magowan was the "face man" of the Giants for years, despite owning only a small portion of the team). I'm not sure it's conscious Antisemitism, but then again, it's important to question unconscious acts of racism/prejudice.

 

If you want proof of the "unconscious" Antisemitism, look at the Tampa Bay Area. Nobody talks about the good deeds done by Jeffrey Vinik (the Bolts' Jewish owner), but will go on about how Stu Sternberg is a greedy "carpetbagger" who wants to move the team and won't invest in the market (it's not his fault that St. Petersburg jumped the gun in building the Suncoast Dome on speculation, even after failed referendums). 

 

Writing about Loria/Samson is like when true crime writers talk about serial killer Charles Ng. You try hard not to sound racist when describing him. However, he speaks with a heavy Engrish accent, performs kung fu moves for his fellow Marines and moving company employees, acts in a sour/shouty/sneaky manner at all times, is a bad driver, and basically acted as a manservant for Leonard Lake. It's hard not to sound racist when you're describing the real-life embodiment of a yellow peril cartoon.

 

16 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The fact that he seems like a joyless bore intent on stripping all the personality from the Marlins. 

 

I get what he's going for, but it really doesn't work in Miami. You need some flash for Miami/South Florida.

 

16 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The fact that he’s unproven. @SilverBullet1929 is going on about how Jeter traded away players from a team that never won to build a team that will win. We don’t know if they will though, or if Jeter is even capable of building a winning team. 

Maybe he is capable, but I feel like people ought to hold off on the praise until he proves he can do it. All of this worship is going to look silly if the Marlins are sitting in the basement of the NL East again. 

 

Like @SilverBullet1929 said, I'd give him a few years. Then I'll make my judgement.

 

Over twenty years after the Florida expansion finished, I think it may be safe to say that it could have gone a lot better than it did. Better initial ownership groups (e.g., no Naimoli and Huizenga not performing a fire sale), better stadium arrangements (no speculation stadiums in crappy locations), and fewer off-putting moves (groveling for taxpayer money) would have given them a better standing. Of course, the whole big wave of attempted relocations to Tampa Bay pretty thoroughly trashed the market for baseball.

[Olmec]

So about that 2019 rebrand... 

 

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

I don’t give a crap where he’s from. I’ve outlined my distaste for the Jeter worship...

 

We talked about the uncomfortable notion of Jeter praise while his Jewish business partner is ignored and his Jewish predecessors are demonized. I see where you’re all coming from, but I thought it was important to mention regardless. 

 

Jeter is the public face of the team.  And FWIW, Bruce Sherman owns about ten times the Marlins stock Jeter does, but Jeter is still the CEO.  And most of what people are talking about falls under Jeter’s role as the CEO.

 

Sherman certainly seems willing to let Jeter be that public face, so I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary to talk about him every time we talk about Jeter.  

 

And Loria?  As sensitive as I’d like to think I am about anti-Semitism, I maintain that that particular man deserves to be demonized.  But for his actions alone.  

[Gothamite]

35 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

I myself was born in New York but moved to Miami as a child... am I a New Yorker or a Floridian? Or maybe I'm the carpetbagger? 

 

You’ll always be a New Yorker.  You’d think that Floridians are used to us moving down there, but I can’t speak for them.   

[CaliforniaGlowin]

57 minutes ago, Olmec said:

So about that 2019 rebrand... 

 

It's ridiculous how they promote "their colors" yet this gets restricted. this should be a automatic day game uniform

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

You’ll always be a New Yorker.  You’d think that Floridians are used to us moving down there, but I can’t speak for them.   

So on the topic of who is and isn’t a Floridian...I’m coming up on three years here and I think I have it figured out. 

People like to consider South Florida its own thing, so let’s only look at central and northern Florida. 

 

Sure, you have proper “southerners” in Florida, but aside from areas in the middle and the north of the state? They aren’t that plentiful (the Daughters of the Confederacy house up by Clearwater as you come from Tampa sticks out like a sore thumb compared to its surroundings). 

 

Most of what makes up Florida seems to be people from the Midwest and Northeast (I’m counting Ontario, Quebec, and the Atlantic provinces in with that) or their kids/grandkids. The only difference between those that are “Floridians” and those that aren’t seems to be whether the person in question has gone insane from the humidity or not  

 

1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

But, frustrated with years of incompetence and failure from Loria, I'm ok with giving Jeter a chance

I get that. I really do. I was ready to believe in Brendan Shanahan when he took over the Leafs. Thankfully that seems to have worked out, but he was merely the latest in a series of regime changes that had previously flamed out. 

So I know what it’s like to be hopeful and get let down as well as know what it’s like to be hopeful and actually see some progress. 

I don’t want Jeter to fail, I’m just saying...let’s see how he does. 

 

 

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Over twenty years after the Florida expansion finished, I think it may be safe to say that it could have gone a lot better than it did. 

It’s crazy that this is where we’re at right? Had you said, back in 1992, that one Florida team would have two World Series titles and the other an AL pennant you’d think “ok, Florida worked!”

And yet I think we’re all in agreement that things aren’t what they should be. Better stadium options- ie state of the art for the time parks that had retractable roofs- might have made the difference, but those never happened and the two situations may not be salvageable. I don’t even know what the Rays are planning on doing now that their Ybor stadium plan fell through.

 

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

And Loria?  As sensitive as I’d like to think I am about anti-Semitism, I maintain that that particular man deserves to be demonized.  But for his actions alone.  

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

I agree to an extent. However, Loria and Samson took greed to new heights during their tenure with the Marlins. They embodied all of the negative stereotypes while taking things a step further, beyond the stereotypes. I'd never use Anti-Semitic language to describe what they did, and I'm sure many of their other critics would avoid it as well. Jeter's business partner doesn't get mentioned because he's not the "face man" of the group (i.e., Peter Magowan was the "face man" of the Giants for years, despite owning only a small portion of the team). I'm not sure it's conscious Antisemitism, but then again, it's important to question unconscious acts of racism/prejudice.

 

I agree with both of these takes. I don’t think Loria is a good guy by any stretch, but there were patterns that I felt were worth discussing.