SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

Maybe the silver lining there is that the Marlins will overhaul the whole set sooner.

 

Jeter's motivation was obviously to do as much as possible to help fans forget about Loria, but I would have waited to rebrand until after the Nike contract started and closer to the team's window of competition--likely 2021.

 

The Astros sucked in their first couple years in their current uniforms. The Marlins have plenty of room for improvement regardless.

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11 hours ago, McGlinchey23 said:

These new uniforms are going to have a bad association right off the bat. The Marlins might struggle to win 55 games this year

Not really. Not if the new ownership's plan works. The Astros changed their uniforms in 2013 and lost 110 games then lost like 90 something the next season but then won the World Series a few years later and now those Astros uniforms are associated with their first championship and their current run of great teams and a winning atmosphere. 

 

The Marlins have the same concept in mind. 

 

There are plenty of teams who have uniforms associated with winning teams that started on teams that stunk.

 

People "forget" about losing seasons the second the winning years come. 

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7 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I would have waited to rebrand until after the Nike contract started and closer to the team's window of competition--likely 2021.

Do that and you have a bunch of people wearing "the old stuff" when your team is good and you're trying to push the new stuff. It's best (from a marketing and promotional standpoint) to give the new rebrand time to filter in through the fanbase for a few seasons... that way when the team is hopefully good then you have more fans already wearing the new things. Let 2019, another losing season, be the year where the fans are wearing too much of the old stuff mixed in with the new stuff. You gotta grow the brand, not just spring it on the fans out of nowhere.

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10 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Do that and you have a bunch of people wearing "the old stuff" when your team is good and you're trying to push the new stuff. It's best (from a marketing and promotional standpoint) to give the new rebrand time to filter in through the fanbase for a few seasons... that way when the team is hopefully good then you have more fans already wearing the new things. Let 2019, another losing season, be the year where the fans are wearing too much of the old stuff mixed in with the new stuff. You gotta grow the brand, not just spring it on the fans out of nowhere.

I have no idea what the sales figures have been like, but I doubt there will be a mad rush to buy the new gear until the team is actually respectable on the field. I suspect that people went out and stocked up on new stuff in 2012 because there was a ton of buzz surrounding that team. Knowing the lack of enthusiasm that South Florida has for the Marlins, casual fans are going to be wearing "obsolete" attire into the team's next competitive window no matter what.

 

There have been some studies that indicate that merchandise sales are roughly commensurate with team competitiveness. In other words, I highly doubt that you will see most people in Marlins Park wearing the black-on-black stuff until you give them a reason to buy it. The aesthetics might be enough for some, true, but it's been hard for me to gauge how well received the rebrand has been. Right now I would estimate the reaction has been "mixed" but that's not based on any data.

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8 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

I have no idea what the sales figures have been like, but I doubt there will be a mad rush to buy the new gear until the team is actually respectable on the field. I suspect that people went out and stocked up on new stuff in 2012 because there was a ton of buzz surrounding that team. Knowing the lack of enthusiasm that South Florida has for the Marlins, casual fans are going to be wearing "obsolete" attire into the team's next competitive window no matter what.

 

There have been some studies that indicate that merchandise sales are roughly commensurate with team competitiveness. In other words, I highly doubt that you will see most people in Marlins Park wearing the black-on-black stuff until you give them a reason to buy it. The aesthetics might be enough for some, true, but it's been hard for me to gauge how well received the rebrand has been. Right now I would estimate the reaction has been "mixed" but that's not based on any data.

This is exactly my point... this is why you start now and give the fanbase 2-3 years to buy the new stuff so that when they're hopefully competitive more fans are wearing the new gear.

 

Your idea of waiting until they're competitive and then throwing the new stuff on the fanbase there doesn't work either... if they did it that way the fans won't rush to buy the new stuff then either, they're actually more likely to be wearing the old stuff then as well because they haven't all had the time to get the new stuff.

 

I was at Fanfest... plenty of fans (actual Marlins fans mind you) have already bought the new stuff and that's with the team sucking now. Let this continue the next couple of seasons and you'll have more fans with the new stuff in 2021 than you would if you sprung it on the fanbase then.

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Yeah, waiting for some uncertain future date when the roster-building pays off seems pretty tricky.

 

Something certain like the opening of a new stadium, that can be concretely ( ;) ) set years in advance?  That makes sense.  But not something as variable and hard to predict as when your team might actually be good again.

 

Besides, new uniforms are one of the ways that a team keeps its fans engaged when they aren't very good on the field.  That's why struggling teams change more often than successful ones.

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14 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Not really. Not if the new ownership's plan works. The Astros changed their uniforms in 2013 and lost 110 games then lost like 90 something the next season but then won the World Series a few years later and now those Astros uniforms are associated with their first championship and their current run of great teams and a winning atmosphere. 

 

The Marlins have the same concept in mind. 

 

There are plenty of teams who have uniforms associated with winning teams that started on teams that stunk.

 

People "forget" about losing seasons the second the winning years come. 

The Patriots went 5-11 in their first year in their (outdated) current getup, then won the Super Bowl, then missed the playoffs again. Think of it - they missed the playoffs two of their first three seasons wearing navy blue. Now that ugly set is associated with the greatest dynasty in NFL history...and I can't wait for that dynasty to end so there's at least a chance they drop the side panels.

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18 hours ago, Gothamite said:

Yeah, waiting for some uncertain future date when the roster-building pays off seems pretty tricky.

 

Something certain like the opening of a new stadium, that can be concretely ( ;) ) set years in advance?  That makes sense.  But not something as variable and hard to predict as when your team might actually be good again.

 

Besides, new uniforms are one of the ways that a team keeps its fans engaged when they aren't very good on the field.  That's why struggling teams change more often than successful ones.

2021 isn't really that arbitrary of a future date, though. I selected it in part because that's the first season of a new TV deal. They currently have one of the very worst in MLB and it expires after the 2020. We don't know what the new terms will be but it's certain to guarantee much more revenue than they are taking in now. 2021 is also the first season where the Marlins have zero money committed to free agents. Wei Yin Chen's awful contract comes off the books after the 2020 season. This means that come 2021, the Marlins should have tons of money to spend in free agency and contract extensions. So while that year might not offer something as tangible as a new stadium, I believe that a lot of Marlins fans have been keeping their eyes on 2021 for those reasons.

 

Having a stadium filled with people wearing obsolete gear come 2021 is a total non-issue IMO, especially considering all of the older stuff looks much better than what they're wearing now anyway (😉).

 

I could probably get my way after all, though, because 2021 seems to be a great time to have a soft rebranding. Fixing and touching up many of the ghastly errors they made in the original design.

 

In the end the two things that are going to drive fans to drive merchandise are 1.) winning and 2.) marketable players. Casual fans are not going to replace their orange Stanton jerseys until you give them a reason to do so. Brinson and Mesa could maybe be those guys eventually but they aren't not there yet.

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1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

In the end the two things that are going to drive fans to drive merchandise are 1.) winning and 2.) marketable players. 

 

You forgot 3) novelty. 

 

What they’re doing right now let’s them take advantage of 3).  And if you’re right, 3) will help tide them over until they’re ready to have 1) and 2) kick in. 

 

Seems like a pretty good plan to me.  

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Sure, novelty counts too, but I think in the end the brand would benefit from not being tarnished by lousy product on the field.

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If you’re right about the timetable, they won’t be.  By the time the new shine wears off the team will be a contender and the first years will be forgotten. They’ll only be associated with the good team. 

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On my TV (which is not 4K)...the BP jerseys look teal in the sun, and the whole package looks like teal, black, and orange. And it looks like a great update from the 90s. Today's game against the Mets is an aesthetically pleasing game. 

 

Those blue jerseys obviously need to be full time alts. 

 

 

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On 3/6/2019 at 7:51 AM, Gothamite said:

 

You forgot 3) novelty. 

 

What they’re doing right now let’s them take advantage of 3).  And if you’re right, 3) will help tide them over until they’re ready to have 1) and 2) kick in. 

 

Seems like a pretty good plan to me.  

Assuming 1) and 2) happen. 

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2 hours ago, WSU151 said:

On my TV (which is not 4K)...the BP jerseys look teal in the sun, and the whole package looks like teal, black, and orange. And it looks like a great update from the 90s. Today's game against the Mets is an aesthetically pleasing game. 

 

Those blue jerseys obviously need to be full time alts. 

 

 

 

With a script instead of the chest logo I could even live with these being worn 90% of the time. It's crazy how much better they are compared to their three "regular" jerseys.

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5 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Assuming 1) and 2) happen. 

If 1 and 2 don't happen within a few years, the rebrand will suffer the same negative connotation that the 2012-2018 orange Marlins did. I'd go as far to say that the last set already began to feel tainted after the 2012-2013 firesale.

 

The last set had to go because it didn't look too great (although better than what we have now), Jeter wanted to mark his territory, and it had a negative stigma attached to it. Orange became an irredeemably toxic color, which is why they began to phase it out by last season already.

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Winning and marketable players are the key, and everything else is second.  The Phillies are a perfect example.  Haven't made a notable change in 27ish years, but were among the top sellers when winning all those divisions and a few pennants in the late 00s/early10s, and now have by far the top selling jersey (so much so that they literally ran out of the letter R and all jerseys that required Rs went on backorder.)

 

All of the other cited reasons that teams rebrand are also very valid, and I think the timing for this one made sense, but at the end of the day, if you're not winning and producing stars, you're just biding some time until you have to rebrand again just to regarner at least some interest.

 

Just win.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

...if you're not winning and producing stars, you're just biding some time until you have to rebrand again just to regarner at least some interest.

 

Just win.

 

Exactly. too many teams worry more about their bottom line and creating a winning onfield product. Then again maybe some are completely incapable of doing so. But winning solves everything.

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7 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

(so much so that they literally ran out of the letter R and all jerseys that required Rs went on backorder.)

 

If worse comes to worst they can move to Boston

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7 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

but at the end of the day, if you're not winning and producing stars, you're just biding some time until you have to rebrand again just to regarner at least some interest.

Exactly. If the Marlins hadn't made a uniform change but had started winning? They'd sell merch easily. Just like the new stuff will stop selling once the novelty wears off if they haven't started winning.

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I've said this before and I know people here disagree with me, but I often wonder if people overestimate or overstate the importance of merchandise sales when teams make their branding decisions. The Phillies might have sold tons of Harper jerseys already but how many of those people actually drove to the official team store? If they're buying online, those revenues are split evenly among all MLB teams. Unless I'm misinformed, so please correct me if I'm wrong on how that works.

 

Call David Samson a moron and windbag all you want, but in one of his more recent interviews with Le Batard, he basically said that merchandise sales really weren't important to them for the reasons I mentioned. Now there's also the fact that given the low attendance the Marlins have, they probably get less people shopping at the team store than Cubs fans would be at Wrigley, but in the era of online shopping I wonder how much of a difference that really makes. It would be interesting to see how much revenue each team actually gets from those sales.

 

My point is that when a team rebrands, the main motivation should not be about selling gear due to the relatively limited returns. A branding should be seen more as one component of what MLB is actually selling--an entertainment experience. Branding is important because it helps give a team an identity and generates buzz. The real dollars they are after are gate attendance, corporate ticket packages/luxury boxes, and television viewership.

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