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Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium


Gothamite

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35 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

On topic, any relocation by MLB should be to a city that has no more than one other “big 4” team. Ideally, the relocated MLB team would be the only team in town.  MLB needs to come to grips with the fact that it doesn’t have the status it used to. Teams aren’t going to do well trying to compete in new markets that have established  NFL and NBA teams.  

What markets would you suggest? I can think of Portland and San Antonio, but why would you purposefully leave out Charlotte? MLB might not be as popular as it once was, but it's still a major sport. People will show up no matter where, and leaving out Charlotte, a place that has ruled Minor League attendance for years, just because the city is also large enough to support other teams doesn't add up. 

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1 hour ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

What markets would you suggest? I can think of Portland and San Antonio, but why would you purposefully leave out Charlotte? MLB might not be as popular as it once was, but it's still a major sport. People will show up no matter where, and leaving out Charlotte, a place that has ruled Minor League attendance for years, just because the city is also large enough to support other teams doesn't add up. 

 

I “purposely” left out Charlotte because an MLB team won’t work there. There’s too much competition and not enough interest. The Panthers, BobHornetCats, three NASCAR races, at least one major NHRA event, local track racing, and hot summers all add up to 12,000 fans a game for baseball...if you’re lucky. MLB has expanded twice in the last 20 years. If Charlotte is such a great market, how did it miss out on four chances to land a team?

 

With regard to MiLB, it’s a helluva lot easier to draw fans when your average ticket price is 30-40 bucks lower than the average MLB ticket. If MiLB success translated to MLB success, we’d have MLB teams in places like Erie, PA and Toledo, OH. 

 

Finally, if people will show up “no matter where” then why are we even talking about moving teams? Using your logic, Tampa and Miami are already successful which means there’s no reason to relocate either team. 

 

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18 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

I “purposely” left out Charlotte because an MLB team won’t work there. There’s too much competition and not enough interest. The Panthers, BobHornetCats, three NASCAR races, at least one major NHRA event, local track racing, and hot summers all add up to 12,000 fans a game for baseball...if you’re lucky. MLB has expanded twice in the last 20 years. If Charlotte is such a great market, how did it miss out on four chances to land a team?

 

With regard to MiLB, it’s a helluva lot easier to draw fans when your average ticket price is 30-40 bucks lower than the average MLB ticket. If MiLB success translated to MLB success, we’d have MLB teams in places like Erie, PA and Toledo, OH. 

 

Finally, if people will show up “no matter where” then why are we even talking about moving teams? Using your logic, Tampa and Miami are already successful which means there’s no reason to relocate either team. 

You do make good points about ticket prices. Charlotte wasn't exactly in a place to land teams in the 90s with the city's money tied up in Charlotte Coliseum and (now) Bank of America Stadium. Plus, there wasn't an ownership group rich enough to place a bid. There is now. And I'll say that Atlanta has the Hawks, Falcons, and even hotter summers plus a ton of other events, like Charlotte does, yet the Braves don't seem to struggle with attendance. The Knights have at times rivaled the Marlins and Rays in attendance, with an uncompetitive team. There are baseball fans here, and I'd wager more than enough to make a Major League team work. I honestly don't think that NASCAR/racing has much of an effect on other sports, either. Memorial Day weekend, the weekend before, and a weekend in early October are enough to make a dent in a baseball team, which would have plenty of other dates to work with. If anything, they would affect the Panthers' attendance, but that clearly isn't true. With a stadium Uptown like BB&T Ballpark currently is, a Charlotte MLB team would work incredibly well. 

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47 minutes ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

You do make good points about ticket prices. Charlotte wasn't exactly in a place to land teams in the 90s with the city's money tied up in Charlotte Coliseum and (now) Bank of America Stadium. Plus, there wasn't an ownership group rich enough to place a bid. There is now. And I'll say that Atlanta has the Hawks, Falcons, and even hotter summers plus a ton of other events, like Charlotte does, yet the Braves don't seem to struggle with attendance. The Knights have at times rivaled the Marlins and Rays in attendance, with an uncompetitive team. There are baseball fans here, and I'd wager more than enough to make a Major League team work. I honestly don't think that NASCAR/racing has much of an effect on other sports, either. Memorial Day weekend, the weekend before, and a weekend in early October are enough to make a dent in a baseball team, which would have plenty of other dates to work with. If anything, they would affect the Panthers' attendance, but that clearly isn't true. With a stadium Uptown like BB&T Ballpark currently is, a Charlotte MLB team would work incredibly well. 

 

The Braves can’t even sell out playoff games. Anyway, something to consider is this, new teams don’t bring in new money to the local economy. New teams simply move around money that’s already in the local economy. So how do the local sports fans redistribute their money if you add a baseball team? Do Panthers fans drop their season tickets? BobHornetCats fans? Do the local NASCAR fans skip the all-star race or the 600 to spend that money on the new MLB team? See how tough it would be to add MLB to that market now? Again, minor league attendance and major league attendance are two entirely different animals. MiLB is dirt cheap, MLB is very expensive. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

The Braves can’t even sell out playoff games. Anyway, something to consider is this, new teams don’t bring in new money to the local economy. New teams simply move around money that’s already in the local economy. So how do the local sports fans redistribute their money if you add a baseball team? Do Panthers fans drop their season tickets? BobHornetCats fans? Do the local NASCAR fans skip the all-star race or the 600 to spend that money on the new MLB team? See how tough it would be to add MLB to that market now? Again, minor league attendance and major league attendance are two entirely different animals. MiLB is dirt cheap, MLB is very expensive. 

 

 

Very fair. I still don't think that NASCAR/baseball fans overlap all that much, but the effect on the Hornets would be much greater. It helps that the baseball/basketball season doesn't overlap much, but your point stands.

 

That said, I want to a Nationals game last year, in the lower bowl, for $15 a ticket. I'm not saying that it's not more expensive in general, but there are cheap tickets to MLB games. Plus, with an MLB team replacing the MiLB Knights, those fans would spend on the Major League team, presumably. 

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the user formerly known as cdclt

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3 hours ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

Very fair. I still don't think that NASCAR/baseball fans overlap all that much, but the effect on the Hornets would be much greater. It helps that the baseball/basketball season doesn't overlap much, but your point stands.

 

That said, I want to a Nationals game last year, in the lower bowl, for $15 a ticket. I'm not saying that it's not more expensive in general, but there are cheap tickets to MLB games. Plus, with an MLB team replacing the MiLB Knights, those fans would spend on the Major League team, presumably. 

 

My two favorite sports are baseball and NASCAR. I'm sure I'm not the only person to really like both sports. Anyway, I don't want you to get the impression that I don't like Charlotte. It's actually one of my favorite cities. I have family there, I've been the the 600 twice and the October race. I love Charlotte and the surrounding area. (I'd move there tomorrow if I could) That said, based on the economics, I don't see how an MLB team could carve out a spot in an already saturated sports market like Charlotte. 

 

81 home games is a lot of dates to sell at MLB prices. Sure, you can get the occasional good, cheap seat at an MLB game, but the team makes its in the park money on season tickets, the high dollar seats, concessions, luxury boxes, in stadium ads, etc. Another thing to consider is this, will the Panthers, Hornets, and NASCAR sponsors either spend more money or move their ads to the new MLB team? Maybe, maybe not. Will the people who own luxury suites with the current teams by yet another one for a baseball team? Then you gotta work out TV and radio deals, get sponsors for those deals, and so on. Point being, it's not as simple as just putting an MLB team in Charlotte and waiting for everyone to show up. A new team throws a huge wrench into an established sports market. There are only so many dollars to go around. As I said before, a new team doesn't bring in new money to a market, it has to fight for the money that's already there. That's why I think any MLB relocation should be to either completely "untapped" markets or markets with just one "big 4" team. 

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6 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

My two favorite sports are baseball and NASCAR. I'm sure I'm not the only person to really like both sports. Anyway, I don't want you to get the impression that I don't like Charlotte. It's actually one of my favorite cities. I have family there, I've been the the 600 twice and the October race. I love Charlotte and the surrounding area. (I'd move there tomorrow if I could) That said, based on the economics, I don't see how an MLB team could carve out a spot in an already saturated sports market like Charlotte. 

 

81 home games is a lot of dates to sell at MLB prices. Sure, you can get the occasional good, cheap seat at an MLB game, but the team makes its in the park money on season tickets, the high dollar seats, concessions, luxury boxes, in stadium ads, etc. Another thing to consider is this, will the Panthers, Hornets, and NASCAR sponsors either spend more money or move their ads to the new MLB team? Maybe, maybe not. Will the people who own luxury suites with the current teams by yet another one for a baseball team? Then you gotta work out TV and radio deals, get sponsors for those deals, and so on. Point being, it's not as simple as just putting an MLB team in Charlotte and waiting for everyone to show up. A new team throws a huge wrench into an established sports market. There are only so many dollars to go around. As I said before, a new team doesn't bring in new money to a market, it has to fight for the money that's already there. That's why I think any MLB relocation should be to either completely "untapped" markets or markets with just one "big 4" team. 

Similar to this is why I think Buffalo will never get a NBA team back, nor would it be a good idea. I'd love for Buffalo(or Pittsburgh, for that matter) to have an NBA team. But putting yourself in direct competition for spending dollars with the NHL in that market size and two things could happen:

 

1. NBA does really well and causes the NHL to leave

2. NBA flounders and leaves.

 

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12 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

My two favorite sports are baseball and NASCAR. I'm sure I'm not the only person to really like both sports. Anyway, I don't want you to get the impression that I don't like Charlotte. It's actually one of my favorite cities. I have family there, I've been the the 600 twice and the October race. I love Charlotte and the surrounding area. (I'd move there tomorrow if I could) That said, based on the economics, I don't see how an MLB team could carve out a spot in an already saturated sports market like Charlotte. 

 

81 home games is a lot of dates to sell at MLB prices. Sure, you can get the occasional good, cheap seat at an MLB game, but the team makes its in the park money on season tickets, the high dollar seats, concessions, luxury boxes, in stadium ads, etc. Another thing to consider is this, will the Panthers, Hornets, and NASCAR sponsors either spend more money or move their ads to the new MLB team? Maybe, maybe not. Will the people who own luxury suites with the current teams by yet another one for a baseball team? Then you gotta work out TV and radio deals, get sponsors for those deals, and so on. Point being, it's not as simple as just putting an MLB team in Charlotte and waiting for everyone to show up. A new team throws a huge wrench into an established sports market. There are only so many dollars to go around. As I said before, a new team doesn't bring in new money to a market, it has to fight for the money that's already there. That's why I think any MLB relocation should be to either completely "untapped" markets or markets with just one "big 4" team. 

I understand the point you're making. It's very true that a new team would need to carve out its own niche in the city, but it's my personal opinion that an MLB team could make it work, looking at how fast the city is growing and how many large businesses make their home in the area. But I completely understand your views, and I honestly have to agree that any new MLB team would probably do better off the bat in a smaller market like Portland or San Antonio.

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33 minutes ago, Brandon9485 said:

@QueenCitySwarm can you speak about the excitement surrounding MLS coming to Charlotte? The MLS and MLB seasons run parallel to each other. I am wondering how that might impact the city as a potential MLB site. 

I don't live Uptown so I can't speak to exactly how excited the city is, but I'd imagine most fans are pumped. Both the Panthers and Charlotte subreddits have been receptive to really excited about the idea of MLS (though people keep complaining about the money the city gave). Personally, I'm super hyped to go see a game and I imagine we'll have no trouble filling up most of the stadium, especially if they decide to tarp off certain sections. 

 

I know that any new teams only shuffle around current sports-related spending, but at the rate the city is growing, I can't imagine any timeline except one where Charlotte has at least 4 major sports teams (with MLB coming through relocation or expansion). The only one I don't see happening is NHL, only because Raleigh seems to be doing well enough with the Hurricanes (despite my unhappiness at that). The thing is that Charlotte has a huge sports culture, but the team has to be relevant and located centrally. The Panthers and Knights both achieve this through Uptown stadiums (the Hornets also have one, but currently suck, so it's no wonder people haven't been going). I'm sure with the rowdy and exciting culture soccer fans have, people will get curious about the noise and fans gathering around the Bank, so that's literally free marketing you can't get at a suburban stadium. The team needs to fit in and be successful pretty quickly, or they may end up fighting the same war the Hornets are fighting: struggling for talent in a small market and struggling for attendance due to a lack of talent.

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the user formerly known as cdclt

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Did Anaheim pay them to change to Anaheim? I always thought it was attributed to Disney.

 

Again, the whole thing is stupid because the team doesn't even fully commit, so there's very little references to Los Angeles outside of in the media, boxscores and in opposing stadiums when they are on the road, which is I guess what Arte wanted. They aren't addressed by "Los Angeles" by the PA announcer in Angel Stadium. None of their merchandise (outside of throwback) says "Los Angeles Angels" on it, instead going with "Angels Baseball" in places where other teams have "(Geographical Identifier) (Team Name)". None of their logos or jerseys (outside of throwback) reference LA, with their roundel also going with "Angels Baseball".

 

When the Ducks signed a new contract with Anaheim last year to stay in the Honda Center until 2048, the contract requires that the Ducks will keep their name, and Anaheim's position in it, for the duration of the contract.

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

Good. 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

No, awful.

Remember, a City Manager is hired and can only recommend items.  S/he can ask for the world, but if s/he fail, they will be gone quickly. 

They don't make policy, they recommend policy.

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