Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium

[LMU]

 

[GDAWG]

I wonder if this means that the Angels will look elsewhere in the Greater Los Angeles area for a stadium?

[FiddySicks]

On 5/16/2022 at 6:24 PM, LMU said:

 

 

Fun fact: Rob Bonta is my former boss. 

[LMU]

 

[DEAD!]

Quote

Sidhu’s attorney, Paul Meyer, said in a statement that the mayor denied wrongdoing and decided to resign “to continue to act in the best interests of Anaheim and allow this great City to move forward without distraction.” https://t.co/TBw3bWrez7

[LMU]

Cue the lawsuits.

 

 

[MilSox]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:33 AM, GDAWG said:

I wonder if this means that the Angels will look elsewhere in the Greater Los Angeles area for a stadium?

I did like the idea of them playing in Long Beach. 

[Brian in Boston]

 The team's future in Southern California under Moreno's stewardship seems doomed.

The guy alienated Angels fans in Anaheim and Orange County with his asinine "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" branding move. He's made little progress, if any, in helping the team achieve significant relevance amongst sports fans in Greater Los Angeles. The deal for land surrounding Angel Stadium that Moreno so desperately needed in order to engage in the sort of mixed-use real estate development that's become all the rage amongst pro sports owners has now been voided amidst allegations of corruption and vociferous public criticism.     

Best case scenario for Arte? That he could convince Phil Anschutz to buy a piece of the Angels, then talk the Los Angeles Kings and LA Galaxy owner (he also holds a minority stake in the Lakers) into joining him in building a ballpark on the site of the current West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center, once the planned home for the Farmers Field football stadium project. Such a move would put the team in a location that sits next door to L.A. Live (also Anschutz-owned), has access to existing parking facilities, and is anywhere from a 5-minute to 15-minute walk from light-rail public transit stations serving 2 to 4 lines (Pico and 7th Street / Metro stops, respectively). That's the type of deal that could at least make the team more popular with potential L.A.-based fans. I know plenty of baseball enthusiasts on the Westside - Santa Monica, Brentwood, the Palisades, Venice, Marina del Rey, etc. - who would gladly hop on a Metro E Line train to a downtown Los Angeles Angel Stadium if it meant escaping their current experience as Dodgers season ticket-holders fighting rush-hour freeway traffic to get to Chavez Ravine and sitting in an auto-snarled Dodger Stadium parking lot for God knows how long after games. Of course, it would also likely create a permanent schism between the Angels and a majority of their Orange County-based fans.  

Now, the reality of any of this happening is slim. Anschutz has three times the wealth of Moreno and likely isn't interested in partnering with a guy who has managed his way into the predicament Arte now finds himself in. Phil doesn't need that sort of headache.    

Frankly, there's a better chance of Arte being forced to relocate  to another market. Hey, what about Tennessee? He could rename them the Nashville Honky-Tonk Angels!      

[FiddySicks]

Any plan that has the Angels actually leaving greater Orange County isn’t a good one imo. Especially if they move into Los Angeles proper. That’s a great way to set them up as the actual baseball Clippers. It’s like the Chargers moving from San Diego to LA. Yeah I guess it’s technically “more” fans, but, not really with any ounce of enthusiasm. That’s Dodgers territory, has always been, and it isn’t changing because the Angels move up there. 

[McCall]

3 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

 The team's future in Southern California under Moreno's stewardship seems doomed.

The guy alienated Angels fans in Anaheim and Orange County with his asinine "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" branding move. He's made little progress, if any, in helping the team achieve significant relevance amongst sports fans in Greater Los Angeles. The deal for land surrounding Angel Stadium that Moreno so desperately needed in order to engage in the sort of mixed-use real estate development that's become all the rage amongst pro sports owners has now been voided amidst allegations of corruption and vociferous public criticism.     

Best case scenario for Arte? That he could convince Phil Anschutz to buy a piece of the Angels, then talk the Los Angeles Kings and LA Galaxy owner (he also holds a minority stake in the Lakers) into joining him in building a ballpark on the site of the current West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center, once the planned home for the Farmers Field football stadium project. Such a move would put the team in a location that sits next door to L.A. Live (also Anschutz-owned), has access to existing parking facilities, and is anywhere from a 5-minute to 15-minute walk from light-rail public transit stations serving 2 to 4 lines (Pico and 7th Street / Metro stops, respectively). That's the type of deal that could at least make the team more popular with potential L.A.-based fans. I know plenty of baseball enthusiasts on the Westside - Santa Monica, Brentwood, the Palisades, Venice, Marina del Rey, etc. - who would gladly hop on a Metro E Line train to a downtown Los Angeles Angel Stadium if it meant escaping their current experience as Dodgers season ticket-holders fighting rush-hour freeway traffic to get to Chavez Ravine and sitting in an auto-snarled Dodger Stadium parking lot for God knows how long after games. Of course, it would also likely create a permanent schism between the Angels and a majority of their Orange County-based fans.  

Now, the reality of any of this happening is slim. Anschutz has three times the wealth of Moreno and likely isn't interested in partnering with a guy who has managed his way into the predicament Arte now finds himself in. Phil doesn't need that sort of headache.    

Frankly, there's a better chance of Arte being forced to relocate  to another market. Hey, what about Tennessee? He could rename them the Nashville Honky-Tonk Angels!      

According to Google Maps, that's only 3 miles from Dodger Stadium. I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here and say that might not get approved.

[LMU]

2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Any plan that has the Angels actually leaving greater Orange County isn’t a good one imo. Especially if they move into Los Angeles proper. That’s a great way to set them up as the actual baseball Clippers. It’s like the Chargers moving from San Diego to LA. Yeah I guess it’s technically “more” fans, but, not really with any ounce of enthusiasm. That’s Dodgers territory, has always been, and it isn’t changing because the Angels move up there. 

I could see Long Beach working.  LB has always had an OC-adjacent vibe to it and is close enough to easily draw in fans from Seal Beach/Huntington Beach on a regular basis.

[FiddySicks]

I always forget that Long Beach is in LA county. It definitely has more of an OC vibe to it. Either way, it would still be a better move than further north. 

[Brian in Boston]

6 hours ago, McCall said:

According to Google Maps, that's only 3 miles from Dodger Stadium. I'm gonna go out on a very short limb here and say that might not get approved.

Major League Baseball's territorial rules state that the Angels and Dodgers share the same territory - Los Angeles, Orange, and Ventura Counties - equally. While either franchise can veto the move of a minor league team - including one another's affiliates - into said territory, they cannot limit the movement of the territory's other MLB club within the three counties.   

[McCall]

3 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

Major League Baseball's territorial rules state that the Angels and Dodgers share the same territory - Los Angeles, Orange, and Ventura Counties - equally. While either franchise can veto the move of a minor league team - including one another's affiliates - into said territory, they cannot limit the movement of the territory's other MLB club within the three counties.   

Even so, what is the likelihood that they draw that close to Dodger Stadium? Lifelong Dodger fans aren't gonna all of a sudden switch their fandom just because it's easier to get out of the parking lot. The Angels' best bet is to either stay in OC or try to get ahold of the outer region of Dodgers territory, i.e., Long Beach.

[gosioux76]

3 hours ago, McCall said:

Even so, what is the likelihood that they draw that close to Dodger Stadium? Lifelong Dodger fans aren't gonna all of a sudden switch their fandom just because it's easier to get out of the parking lot. The Angels' best bet is to either stay in OC or try to get ahold of the outer region of Dodgers territory, i.e., Long Beach.

 

It would certainly be a risk. But it's also important to remember that a move like that isn't just about the team, but the real estate opportunity. If such a move means it would allow Moreno or whomever to invest in a massive mixed-use project with year-round revenue streams, then that might offset some of that risk exposure. At that point, you might be willing to gamble that you can retain some of your core fanbase while also building a new, sustainable one drawn to that new location and its related entertainment options. 

Sometimes, it's just a bonehead move, like we've seen with the Chargers, which are a tenant in a venue they don't own, nor do they control the revenue streams. That might likely be the case with the Angels should the scenario @Brian in Boston suggested -- the Anschutz/Moreno partnership -- come to be. 

[FiddySicks]

It still makes no sense. I don’t really understand what they’re doing down there though, anyway. Southern California is absolutely enormous, and the southern half of the region (San Diego, Orange County, parts of the IE)  is larger than most other markets just on its own. Despite that, they seem to want to keep moving everything from down there and concentrate everything around Los Angeles directly. Like, why? Why in the world would they want to basically alienate the entire southern portion of their region to try and compete for dollars with already well established franchises in their own backyards? It seems so incredibly shortsighted, and frankly, a tad bit arrogant. Which, actually, kinda fits the attitude of the region perfectly. 

[Digby]

14 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Any plan that has the Angels actually leaving greater Orange County isn’t a good one imo. Especially if they move into Los Angeles proper. That’s a great way to set them up as the actual baseball Clippers. It’s like the Chargers moving from San Diego to LA. Yeah I guess it’s technically “more” fans, but, not really with any ounce of enthusiasm. That’s Dodgers territory, has always been, and it isn’t changing because the Angels move up there. 

 

It's worse than that. At least the current Clippers and Chargers fill dates where their venues would otherwise go empty. Building a brand-new ballpark in the shadow of Dodger Stadium that's not for the Dodgers is a great way to waste some of the most valuable land in the country.

[Brian in Boston]

4 hours ago, McCall said:

Even so, what is the likelihood that they draw that close to Dodger Stadium? Lifelong Dodger fans aren't gonna all of a sudden switch their fandom just because it's easier to get out of the parking lot. The Angels' best bet is to either stay in OC or try to get ahold of the outer region of Dodgers territory, i.e., Long Beach.

I'm not saying the scenario I've outlined is going to happen. In fact, I said the chance of such an eventuality occurring was "slim". That said, under Major League Baseball's current territorial rules for the Los Angeles market, the Dodgers could not unilaterally prevent the Angels from pursuing such a path.

As for the number of lifelong Dodgers fans that would "switch their fandom" if the Angels were to make such a move, all I can tell you is that - as mentioned up-thread - I have crossed paths with no shortage of baseball fans on LA's Westside who would enthusiastically leap at the chance to rid themselves of the mind-numbing, nerve-fraying, soul-sucking slog that is getting in and out of Chavez Ravine in order to consume the MLB product in this market. And that sample includes everyone from transplants to Greater Los Angeles with other primary MLB team allegiances to native Angelenos who have bled Dodger Blue their entire lives.

Now, granted, there are plenty of the latter fans who would tell you that they'd prefer it if the Dodgers were to make the move to the downtown Los Angeles ballpark I've described. Indeed, I know Dodger-loving seam-heads who can't understand why the franchise's current ownership group wouldn't want to rid itself of having to deal with former team owner Frank McCourt, who still holds a stake in the parking lots - and any profits that development opportunities on said landscape would generate - surrounding Dodger Stadium. Truth be told, the Dodgers likely wonder about that themselves from time to time. After all, the Dodgers current ownership group - Guggenheim Baseball Management - considered a deal that would have seen them build a replacement for Dodger Stadium on the downtown parcel that was being eyed for the Farmers Field development, with AEG building a stadium to house a National Football League team at the current Dodger Stadium site.

In any event, this much seems certain: Arte Moreno has gotten himself in a pickle... and Major League Baseball would seem to have another less-than-optimal ballpark situation on its hands. Certainly not as problematic as the state-of-affairs plaguing the Athletics at RingCentral Coliseum or the Rays at Tropicana Field, but troublesome nevertheless.                      

[FiddySicks]

Yeah but you say that with the assumption that whatever the Angels would set up wouldn’t be the mind-numbing, nerve-fraying, soul-sucking slog that is getting in and out of Chavez Ravine, and I’m pretty sure that’s the wrong assumption to make. It’s still Los Angeles, after all. If public transportation was set up better, I might buy into that line of thinking, but as it currently is, the very nature of the city is a mind-numbing, nerve-fraying, soul-sucking slog. 

[pmoehrin]

15 hours ago, LMU said:

I could see Long Beach working.  LB has always had an OC-adjacent vibe to it and is close enough to easily draw in fans from Seal Beach/Huntington Beach on a regular basis.

 

I have no doubt Long Beach would work. You're in a city with just under half a million people and within a half-hour drive of both LA and Anaheim. That's on top of all the pre-existing entertainment-based infrastructure already there. It doesn't get much better than that in terms of location.

 

The issue I see comes down to cost. There's a reason nobody has moved into that area. A stadium there would run well over $1 billion and easily be the most expensive MLB stadium ever built.

 

The Angels have no problem drawing right where they are, and it would be a lot cheaper for them to stay put than to move any way you cut it. Their current ballpark isn't great, but you can work with it, and the Angels have.

 

I don't see them moving outside the LA market because anywhere they moved to would be a downgrade. They're second in the league in attendance, playing in the second-largest media market in the country. Why mess that up?

 

I think they're going to wait for the smoke to clear with whatever is going with the Anaheim city government before doing anything. No mater what happens, they're not in any danger of getting kicked out of their stadium tomorrow.