Gothamite

Angels tell Anaheim they're opting out of their lease on Angel Stadium

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11 hours ago, the admiral said:

Yeah, it was only a few years ago that I learned all these place names I had known -- Northridge, Sherman Oaks, Reseda, Van Nuys -- were actually just neighborhoods of Los Angeles rather than suburbs. The Valley is a strange phenomenon, geographically speaking. Maybe the people are strange, too.

 

Suburbs can technically exist within city limits, even though in the states we don't often think that way.  Just because some neighborhood is part of LA, if it's mostly residential and not too "urban" (here's where a gray area exists), then it's a suburb.  In other countries I've been, I've heard people refer to suburbs as any residential neighborhood that's not near one of the CBDs.  So like in Singapore, someone I met was like "yeah I need to leave early, I live out in the suburbs", but her "suburb" was a neighborhood of nothing but 30+story high rises with ground floor retail.  I get that USA isn't Singapore, but that's more common than our definition.  I know here, some people will look at you funny if you say you live in the city but you're in somewhere like Manayunk, which while in the city limits, and arguably urban, isn't the core of the city.  Ironically, that's the case despite the fact that Phila's city/county really doesn't sprawl that much at all (except in the trashy northeast.)

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Hmm, I don't think I'd refer to a far-flung single-family-home neighborhood of Chicago like Beverly or Norwood Park as a suburb, even if they're suburban in nature. Chicago already has like 200 suburbs as it is.

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On 10/19/2018 at 6:21 PM, colortv said:

 

That's why I find this Chargers stuff in the other thread so silly.

 

They have a market from the Mexican border in the south to basically Santa Barbara in the North, stretching 230 miles North to South with 20 million people. 

 

You would have to try to fail in order to do so.

 

And yet... Here we are.

 

---

 

But yeah, the whole of Southern California is a giant urban sprawl. Technically, it's all one thing.

 

But as others have pointed out, with the sheer amount of people and the geography, there are different areas that present different challenges of getting to one place or the next. And along those lines to address something in the quoted post, there isn't a market from the border to Santa Barbara. San Diego is significantly separated from LA culturally and with one big geographic barrier: Camp Pendleton. While there's plenty of mingling between Ventura/LA/Orange and even San Bernardino and Riverside counties, that doesn't happen between SD and OC. That 20-mile buffer zone does a heck of a job breaking up the humanity.

 

Anyways, honestly, the Chargers best bet was to take a page from the Angels/Ducks book and claim a part of the sprawl that claims its own identity and feed off that. But they're making the mistake that the Angels/Arte Moreno tried and might try again of taking on a bigger battle they have no shot at winning. They're both on a lower rung than the big brother team, and that's fine. Just accept it, embrace it, do your best with it. You can do pretty well with even a slice of SoCal.

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On 10/19/2018 at 9:21 PM, colortv said:

You would have to try to fail in order to do so.

Hello. I see you’re new to Dean Spanos. 

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1 hour ago, Still MIGHTY said:

Anyways, honestly, the Chargers best bet was to take a page from the Angels/Ducks book and claim a part of the sprawl that claims its own identity and feed off that. But they're making the mistake that the Angels/Arte Moreno tried and might try again of taking on a bigger battle they have no shot at winning. They're both on a lower rung than the big brother team, and that's fine. Just accept it, embrace it, do your best with it. You can do pretty well with even a slice of SoCal.

If they want a model for how to market they should look Down Under.  Four AFL teams permanently play at the Melbourne Cricket Ground even though they represent different neighborhoods. You could market to OC/SD without actually having a stadium there.

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2 hours ago, LMU said:

If they want a model for how to market they should look Down Under.

 

Taint Residue Chargers

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OC Register: Anaheim leaders propose year extension to Angels’ stadium lease to give time for negotiations

 

Quote

Mayor Harry Sidhu, who took office in December, said in a statement Thursday that he met with Angels owner Arte Moreno last week.

 

“From that meeting, it is clear the team’s priority is to stay in Anaheim, if we can work out a deal that benefits our residents, the city and the team. We need a plan to make that happen, and we need time to make that happen,” Sidhu said.

 

Moreno, in his first public remarks on the issue in some time, said in a statement: “After meeting with Anaheim Mayor Harry Sidhu, we realized a one-year extension will give us adequate time to work collaboratively on a long-term relationship.”

...

But it’s unlikely that refurbishing or rebuilding the fourth-oldest venue in Major League Baseball would be financed by taxpayers. Instead, observers say a deal signed in November with Honda Center management is a likely guidepost for the direction Angels talks could take.

 

Under that deal, Anaheim Arena Management by Henry Samueli will buy city-owned parking lots around the arena at their appraised value of $10.1 million and will be able to develop them. Other key points included making profit-sharing with the city kick in sooner and having arena officials take over management of the ARTIC transit station. The deal also keeps the Anaheim Ducks at the Honda Center for at least 25 years.

 

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Parking Lot Math! I'm having flashbacks to the Coyotes thread.

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On 10/20/2018 at 12:24 PM, the admiral said:

Hmm, I don't think I'd refer to a far-flung single-family-home neighborhood of Chicago like Beverly or Norwood Park as a suburb, even if they're suburban in nature. Chicago already has like 200 suburbs as it is.

You've never been to Minnesota, specifically the Highland Park Neighborhood of St. Paul. There, they consider a proposed FOUR storey building to be the upcoming apocalypse.

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I have too been to Minnesota and I am aware of their new density-friendly zoning rules.

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Looks like the original Long Beach idea that Autry nixed may be coming back around.

 

 

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Without looking at the amount of public money that would go into that, I kinda like that idea. They should probably just stay in Anaheim, but Long Beach has always felt weirdly underserved to me. It wouldn’t really be a loss to the area either because Long Beach is only about a half hour away.

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Disney’s Island of Whatever they’re gonna make more money from. 

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Or it becomes what jobing.com arena should have...a parking lot. 🤣

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On 10/20/2018 at 11:21 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

I know here, some people will look at you funny if you say you live in the city but you're in somewhere like Manayunk, which while in the city limits, and arguably urban, isn't the core of the city.  Ironically, that's the case despite the fact that Phila's city/county really doesn't sprawl that much at all (except in the trashy northeast.)

 

The trashy Northeast (which I like to call "the Queens of Philadelphia") is where I typically stay when I go down there. The bicycling up there is excellent.

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10 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Without looking at the amount of public money that would go into that, I kinda like that idea. They should probably just stay in Anaheim, but Long Beach has always felt weirdly underserved to me. It wouldn’t really be a loss to the area either because Long Beach is only about a half hour away.

 

That location in Long Beach is pretty stunning, and that area probably could support a team...but I don't think the Dodgers would let the Angels move there. That location is also far worse than the current stadium for traffic congestion. 

 

Ultimately, I'm guessing the Angels do huge upgrades to Angel Stadium. 

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9 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

That location in Long Beach is pretty stunning, and that area probably could support a team...but I don't think the Dodgers would let the Angels move there. That location is also far worse than the current stadium for traffic congestion. 

 

Ultimately, I'm guessing the Angels do huge upgrades to Angel Stadium. 

The Dodgers don’t have a choice. Unlike the Bay Area the market is shared between the Dodgers and the Angels without a dividing line.

 

Traffic-wise, the location is right at the end of the 710 so it’s not too far from freeway access. I’d certainly expect for the capacity to be lowered from the current Angel Stadium number but there definitely won’t be a support issue since Long Beach itself has a population of 450K.

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On 10/20/2018 at 11:21 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Suburbs can technically exist within city limits, even though in the states we don't often think that way.  Just because some neighborhood is part of LA, if it's mostly residential and not too "urban" (here's where a gray area exists), then it's a suburb.

 

I missed this discussion a few months ago, but BBTV is right. Suburban, exurban, rural... etc. are more useful when describing the character of an area or neighborhood, not whether or not they're inside the city limits.

 

City limit boundaries aren't useful for much more than determining who and who doesn't pay tax dollars to where. It's open to interpretation whether city boundaries are overbounded (Jacksonville, Oklahoma City come to mind) or underbounded (most cities have "less desirable" neighborhoods that "should" be part of the city limits, but aren't. Yay racism!). But yeah, just because an area is technically within the city limits doesn't mean it can't be suburban.

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