Bucfan56

2018 MLB Off Season Thread

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8 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

I still think that when Bonds and Clemens do eventually get elected, because they eventually will, they should both just pull a TO. Thanks but no thanks to your dinky little over glorified museum. 

 

I’d rather they show up and pretend to be as insane and obnoxious as possible. Make a mockery of it. Heck, throw some people under the bus for funsies.

 

We need a good heel speech for the Hall of Fame. Personally, I hope that Martinez throws heavy shade at NL writers and anti-DH sentiments (and I say that as an anti-DH guy myself) for keeping him out for so long.

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On 1/22/2019 at 12:37 AM, Dolphins Dynasty said:

Sonny Grey to Cincinnati. The Reds have been busy.

 

They're almost there. They've picked up a lot of good guys, they need that one great guy to push them into legitimate contender. The offense can swing the bats, that's been true for a couple years now. With Alex Wood, Sonny Gray, Tanner Roark, added to Luis Castillo and Anthony Desclafani they've collected a solid starting pitching staff of number 3 type guys. Still missing staff ace, unless Castillo has that bounce back year and becomes the star we thought he might be after 2017. I wouldn't rule it out. 

 

This is the most I've been looking forward to baseball in a long long time. I'm excited by Puig, of course, but the prospect of Nick Senzel playing in the majors, healthy Alex Blandino and Jesse Winker and by the departures of Billy Hamilton and Homer Bailey. It'll be fun to care about the results of Reds baseball games again. I haven't followed wins and losses in a season since halfway through 2014 so that's fun.  

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4 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Couldn’t Bonds and Clemens get in the same way Baines did?

 

Theoretically yes, but I don't see any desire from either the Hall of Fame or the Today's Era Committee to even consider a player with PED allegations against him.

 

They also have to be dropped from the BBWAA ballot to be eligible for consideration, so this sentiment could change in the near future, but I doubt it.

 

My guess is both Clemens and Bonds will have to wait at least another decade, but will eventually get in through a process that doesn't currently exist.

 

Hopefully, more writers come around on both Clemens and Bonds, but my feeling is that there is a solid 30% of the voters that won't vote for either under any circumstance. Until that changes, they don't have a chance of getting in through the writers.

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23 hours ago, pmoehrin said:

 

We can't all agree on his induction, but like many, I am happy to see Edgar finally getting his due credit.

 

uGr0OpK.png

 

 

Olbermann is right

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I don't know.  Does playing defense really matter?  If some big fat oaf commits 5 errors per game in outfield, but hits 1,000 home runs, isn't he a HOFer?  Is playing the field (at least the positions that the big time hitters usually play) really that intense?  I don't give af if you can catch or throw - just hit some dingers and flip your bat and I'm good.

 

I think that defense can get you in the hall, but it shouldn't keep you out if you check all the other boxes.  I'm generally anti-DH, but I can't hold that against a guy. 

 

Should pitchers in the AL be held out of the hall because they don't hit? 

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44 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Olbermann is right

Martinez also had great numbers, .557, vs Rivera and beat up some of the better pitching of his day. 

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Offense is offense. The scoreboard doesn’t care from which position it’s coming from.

 

I can only judge guys based on what they did. No what someone else could have done in their shoes or what they would have done if scenario X, Y, or Z happened.

 

The offensive standard for DH’s should be much higher than say shortstop or center field, but even accounting for that Edgar, in my opinion, clears the bar.

 

I’m not a fan of the DH either, but I’m not going to disqualify someone just because I don’t like it.

 

The Olbermann thing I just thought was a hoot. I don’t care if he disagrees with me. I’ve yet to meet a single baseball fan I’m aligned 100% on how the game should be seen and played. I was just happy for the attention.

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I don't know.  Does playing defense really matter?  If some big fat oaf commits 5 errors per game in outfield, but hits 1,000 home runs, isn't he a HOFer?  Is playing the field (at least the positions that the big time hitters usually play) really that intense?  I don't give af if you can catch or throw - just hit some dingers and flip your bat and I'm good.

 

I think that defense can get you in the hall, but it shouldn't keep you out if you check all the other boxes.  I'm generally anti-DH, but I can't hold that against a guy. 

 

Should pitchers in the AL be held out of the hall because they don't hit? 

I think main thing you are leaving out is the wear and tear. I would estimate that playing the field is much more likely to jeopardize a player's longevity an durability than hitting or running the bases is. Players like Harold Baines can add more years to their careers and more ABs (thus padding their counting stats) by not subjecting their bodies to that physical stress. And remember that playing on turf (basically concrete) was more standard during the 80s.

 

I think Edgar Martinez should be in but that's mostly because he was an exceptional hitter. I don't think a DH should ordinarily be considered under the same light as someone who plays the field for 15 years.

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Speaking of the DH, what happens with Ortiz? He was named in the Mitchell Report, but for some reason people seemed to have turned a blind eye to that. I see no reason why BBWAA should treat him more favorably than Bonds and Clemens.

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2 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I think Edgar Martinez should be in but that's mostly because he was an exceptional hitter. I don't think a DH should ordinarily be considered under the same light as someone who plays the field for 15 years.

 

I don’t consider Edgar under the same light. Every year he’s a full time DH I rate him the same as the worst fielder in the league.

 

But as bad as a team with eight Edgar Martinez’s would be defensively, they would also outhit the ‘27 Yankees with ease. Who cares about pitching and defense at that point? That’s what makes him a Hall of Famer. He is the level of hitter you make that exception for.

 

Frank Thomas was that level of hitter. So was Paul Molitor. Harold Baines sat against lefties.

 

With David Ortiz, honestly it’s no for me.

 

I would be very comfortable building a team around Edgar Martinez even knowing he couldn’t play the field. He was the best player on the ‘95 Mariners team that got to the LCS. Griffey was hurt for a good chunk of the year if people remember.

 

I’m not quite there with Ortiz. Yes, he was a key component of three World Series teams, but the key word is component. He wasn’t the best player on any of those teams.

 

Gary Sheffield could have done the same thing. Teams tried to build around Gary Sheffield. Ironically the one year a team like that won the World Series, he only hit .250 on the year with 21 home runs.

 

An averageSheffield led teams is the fate I see with theoritcal Ortiz lead squad than a three-time World Champion, which is to say a high 80’s win team that goes nowhere. Edgar was the better hitter. He has a higher career OPS plus than Ortiz, and a bigger chunk of his OPS comes from the on-base side of the equation which is the more important part.

 

Martinez was also still a full time starting third basemen when he won his first batting title in ‘92. Martinez is also the better base runner for what it’s worth.

 

The only thing Ortiz has on Edgar is longevity, but if you throw out Ortiz’s Twins numbers as almost everyone does, they wind up with around the same number of plate appearances. I effectively do this, because when it comes to the Hall, I don’t care that much about average or below average seasons. It’s just the number and quality of the great seasons I care about. I see more of and better great seasons from Edgar.

 

There’s enough of a difference here for me to say yes to one and no to the other.

 

As for possibly of Ortiz getting in and Bonds and Clemens not. I guess it just makes anyone who votes this way a hypocrite. Either that, or it’s not really about the PED’s which has always been my contention. Maybe we can finally have an honest conversation about what’s really happening and why, but I doubt it.

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1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

I think main thing you are leaving out is the wear and tear. I would estimate that playing the field is much more likely to jeopardize a player's longevity an durability than hitting or running the bases is. Players like Harold Baines can add more years to their careers and more ABs (thus padding their counting stats) by not subjecting their bodies to that physical stress. And remember that playing on turf (basically concrete) was more standard during the 80s.

 

I think Edgar Martinez should be in but that's mostly because he was an exceptional hitter. I don't think a DH should ordinarily be considered under the same light as someone who plays the field for 15 years.

 

I don't think standing at first base and occasionally digging an errant throw out of the dirt is adding much wear and tear.  That's where they used to move aging catchers.  Let's not pretend that baseball is a grueling game that takes years off of one's life.  

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

I don't think standing at first base and occasionally digging an errant throw out of the dirt is adding much wear and tear.  That's where they used to move aging catchers.  Let's not pretend that baseball is a grueling game that takes years off of one's life.  

Well first base is the least physically taxing of the positions, but I don't think it's correct to suggest that its physical wear and tear is only marginally better than not playing the field at all. As a Marlins fan I can tell you that it seems quite likely that Justin Bour's nagging injuries (mostly ankle related) would not have stripped away so many ABs if he had played in the AL.

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Running around bases and sliding is more taxing than picking your ass at first base for a few minutes 9x a game. If he felt it was an issue then he shoulda had his agent get him to the AL, but I don’t think it would have mattered. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Running around bases and sliding is more taxing than picking your ass at first base for a few minutes 9x a game.

 

Sure but that still doesn't change the fact that playing first is more taxing than sitting on the bench.

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I used to be opposed to designated hitters and relievers getting into the hall of fame, but I've come around. Those are positions in the sport and the Hall of Fame is just a museum after all. Doesn't hurt to recognize the players who best excelled at those positions. The NFL should put more punters in the Hall of Fame while we're on the topic. 

 

The thing people say to that is "well relievers are only relievers because they weren't good enough to be starters..." Maybe in some cases, but coming in and getting 3 outs against the best hitters in the lineup versus holding a team to 3 runs over 7 innings are two different skills. Some guys can do both, a lot can only do one. There's a lot of hall of fame starters that wouldn't have been good relievers. Mariano Rivera was maybe the best playoff player of all time and basically invented a pitch. Edgar Martinez was really good for a really long time and was on the Mariners the last time they were cool. Any difference between his stats as a DH and his stats had he played the field would've been negligible. 

 

Harold Baines and Lee Smith on the other hand...

 

 

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Bonds being a huge arrogant prick to people during his career just stokes the fire of the steroid albatross hanging around his neck. 

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AJ Pollock to the Dodgers.

 

VERY good pickup by LA. If they can’t get Harper, that’s a pretty nice consolation prize. 

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