2018 MLB Off Season Thread

[Kramerica Industries]

58 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Did he ever even come close to the 75% needed in the regular vote? 

 

Per Wikipedia:

 

Quote

[Baines] never received greater than 6.1% (which he received in 2010). On January 5, 2011, Baines received just 28 votes (4.8%) in the 2011 Hall of Fame election, dropping him off all future Hall of Fame ballots by receiving less than 5.0% of the vote.

 

He never came within 65% of the required threshold. Somehow 12 of 16 voters on the committee that put him in, felt he deserved it. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Harold Baines is the perfect baseball card guy. He wasn't some ham and egger; you got a Harold Baines and you were like, "all right! Harold Baines!" He belonged in the same class as guys like Ruben Sierra, Tim Raines, and Dale Murphy.

[BBTV]

5 hours ago, DG_Now said:

Harold Baines is the perfect baseball card guy. He wasn't some ham and egger; you got a Harold Baines and you were like, "all right! Harold Baines!" He belonged in the same class as guys like Ruben Sierra, Tim Raines, and Dale Murphy.

 

Dale Murphy has a couple of MVP trophies and for a while it was he and Schmidt in the discussion of “most feared hitter in the NL”. He had a few HR titles as well. He’s at the top of the “barely not HOF worthy” list, and certainly in a different class than Baines. 

 

And isn’t Raines in the HOF now? I get what you mean though. You were happy, but not ecstatic when you got their card. Wasn’t like scoring a Mattingly, or 85 Olympic McGwire. 

[Shumway]

7 hours ago, DG_Now said:

Harold Baines is the perfect baseball card guy. He wasn't some ham and egger; you got a Harold Baines and you were like, "all right! Harold Baines!" He belonged in the same class as guys like Ruben Sierra, Tim Raines, and Dale Murphy.

"All right! Harold Baines!" was probably literally said by me as a kid. He was on my favorite RBI Baseball team and at the time I was playing RBI was probably on the Orioles, who we'd see play in person every summer.

 

That said, not a Hall of Famer, but for some reason, I'm oddly happy he's in.

[Discrim]

11 hours ago, tp49 said:

I was going to say that Baines isn't a Hall of Famer IMHO.  I'll never be convinced he is either.  Hall of Very Good, sure but Hall of Fame no.

 

The cynic in me thinks this was done to facilitate the future election of those who primarily played the DH position against the argument of "but they didn't play in the field."

What, they couldn't get Edgar Martinez in?

[BBTV]

How do you retire a guys number while he’s still playing for you and he’s not even close to the end of his career? 

[Sport]

The Reds non-tendered Billy Hamilton, which is a good sign that they're serious about trying to not suck anymore. His presence in centerfield every day was sort of the canary in the coalmine that they weren't really interested in competing. Your centerfielder can't hit, he's batting behind the pitcher, his one offensive skill - stealing bases - only works if you can get on base, which he can't because he's a twig. Oh, but what about his glove? So he has a good glove. Great. The amount of runs he saved above average through all of last season was 4. FOUR. His replacement can make that up with one good week at the plate. 

 

 

[Shumway]

I learned today that there's a Harold Baines statue in Chicago, too. Between the number retirement and this, they must've really loved him there.

 

 

Any Sox fans care to weigh in on this?

[GDAWG]

There will be two closers in the Baseball Hall of Fame, as Mariano Rivera is a sure lock. 

[pmoehrin]

50 minutes ago, Shumway said:

I learned today that there's a Harold Baines statue in Chicago, too. Between the number retirement and this, they must've really loved him there.

 

 

Any Sox fans care to weigh in on this?

 

Almost all of that comes from Jerry Reinsdorf who has made no secret of the fact that Baines is his all-time favorite player.

 

The rumor I'm hearing is that Baines' induction was little more than a favor to the longtime White Sox owner, who was probably the only one pushing for his induction behind the scenes. Reinsdorf was on the 16-person closed-door committee that voted him in, and Baines was elected by just one vote. It's also worth noting his former manager Tony La Russa and former teammate Roberto Alomar were also on the 16-person committee.

 

You can't fault the writers for the worst player induction since High Pockets Kelly back in 1973. Just three media members were on the committee that voted Baines in. 

[FiddySicks]

If that’s really the case (which I trust it is because it’s coming from you), it’s not just ridiculous, it’s downright shameful. 

[pmoehrin]

28 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

If that’s really the case (which I trust it is because it’s coming from you), it’s not just ridiculous, it’s downright shameful. 

 

It is, and I don't think history is going to look kindly on how the Hall has been going for the last 15 years or so.

 

It was bad enough to restrict guys like Bonds and Clemens who have you talk about when mentioning the greatest players of all-time. Now we're just completely ignoring any modern statistical evaluation when every team in the majors currently is viewing talent through this lens almost exclusively now. The Houston Astros don't even have a scouting department anymore. Its just video and stats.

 

It feels like a lot of these votes are as much about sticking it to the Sabermetric community as anything else. Buddy Bell, Dwight Evans, Bobby Grich, Keith Hernandez, and Dave Stieb all have very strong sabermetric Hall of Fame cases, and none of them have even been considered by this committee, almost purposely it seems.

 

But look who've they voted in. People like myself swore up and down that Jack Morris was not a Hall of Fame pitcher, especially when you compare him to guys like Kevin Brown and David Cone who didn't even clip 5% on the ballot. He winds up being the first guy the committee inducts.

 

The save stat is the only statistical measure by which Lee Smith qualifies as a Hall of Famer. Smith only had three seasons where his ERA was sub 2.5. He winds up being a unanimous selection.

 

The Baines induction is just the cherry on top. The sad part is it's not hurting the Sabermetric people any. If anything it's helping me because it's far more intriguing to write about a Hall of Fame that's messing up than one that's getting everything right. It's in my financial interest that bad votes like this occur.

 

My opinion on a player also isn't going to change whether he's in the Hall of Fame or not. It only hurts the legacy of the Hall which is going to continue long after the people voting for this garbage are gone. People 30 years from now are going to seriously wonder what voters from this time were thinking.

[FiddySicks]

I’ve thought for many years, and especially so now, that if guys like Clemens and Bonds DO ever get elected to the hall, I hope they reject the offer of admission to that sham institution. TO, of all people, beat them to the punch (in another sport). But I really do hope that if (when) they eventually get in, they don’t even give them the time of day. It’s just a museum anyway, and now it’s a museum where the legitimacy of their efforts have to be brought into question. 

 

I used to to look at visiting the hall as a sports “bucket list” item. Now? You couldn’t pay me to waste my time there. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Baines' induction must clear the way for Edgar Martinez to eventually get in, right? He lowers the bar for everyone!

[SFGiants58]

Fun Giants news:

 

 

 

It’s Nightengale, so YMMV with the accuracy. Still, I’m surprised that people think Belt has value (injury-prone, aging, not a prolific HR hitter). Could this be the push to get Posey to 1B more often?

 

[FiddySicks]

Umm, Bryce Harper to the White Sox? That would be weird. 

[pmoehrin]

13 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Baines' induction must clear the way for Edgar Martinez to eventually get in, right? He lowers the bar for everyone!

 

So far Edgar is a perfect 32 for 32 amongst publically known ballots.

 

He still needs to land at least 73% of the remaining vote and we're still very early in the process, but his prospects for this year are the strongest they've ever been.

[The_Admiral]

This is goddamn farcical. Jerry Reinsdorf and his decades-long obsession with Harold Baines.

[Marlins93]

What a mess! MLB and the Hall of Fame should be really worried about this going forward. If you lower the bar too much, it's going to create apathy for future induction classes because the institution as a whole loses its luster. This is infinitely more damaging than letting Bonds and Clemens would be.

 

If Baines is in, then Jim Edmonds and everyone of his caliber should be too.

[Shumway]

2 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

What a mess! MLB and the Hall of Fame should be really worried about this going forward. If you lower the bar too much, it's going to create apathy for future induction classes because the institution as a whole loses its luster. This is infinitely more damaging than letting Bonds and Clemens would be.

 

If Baines is in, then Jim Edmonds and everyone of his caliber should be too.

 

I'd be completely on board with my childhood hero and the single greatest center fielder of all-time (might be exaggerating just a tad ) going into the hall of fame.