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Best Logo Refreshes

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3 hours ago, Morgo said:


Sure.  Losing the angled stick makes the monogram look too flat while weakening the tie-in with the primary logo.  I also don't like how the orange stripes were moved down to the blade.  It makes them look they're trying to double as hockey-tape which brings unwanted comparisons to the problems of the original Sharks logo (tape not going all the way around).

 

Even though the stick is angled, there’s no perspective or depth to it, so the monogram *is* literally flat. It always has been, even in the context of the primary logo.

 

Connecting directly to the primary logo wasn’t the goal here. That’s already been done, obviously, and separating it highlights all the flaws that get lost in the clutter when viewed in the context of the primary mark. If anything, squaring up the stick brings it into proper alignment with the letters and syncs up the style of the two elements, both of which help achieve the team’s goal (making the NY monogram into a better stand-alone mark).

 

I think you’re reaching with the Sharks comparison. Surely you can’t expect a two-dimensional icon with this degree of simplification to display the same kind of articulation as an illustrative logo like San Jose’s.

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The Fiesta Spurs is just the worst. Black and silver is a great color scheme that even works for the stereotypically boring (though often inaccurate) Spurs. The fiesta logo looks like it would fit as a bowl game logo, but just doesn't work with San Antonio's overall look in any way.

 

As a fan of a wolf-based team that wears red and black, I'm kind of jealous of NC State. I love NC State's move to the wolf mascot guy as their primary logo. It's unique and looks great as well. The block S and diamond logo are both way too generic.

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On 11/27/2018 at 5:13 PM, andrewharrington said:

 

I would debate the integrity of the original; its linework is very directly lifted from the artifact (silhouette, mouth, beak, eyes, brow...). That alone puts in on the wrong side of moral for me.

 

For that reason, I prefer the current. It’s a great interpretation of a piece of native art, not a direct copy of one.

Interesting. I see it the other way. I see the new one as the outsider saying the Native art is "ok but we can make it better". Kind of insulting (as someone with Native heritage myself). In a perfect world, I would have loved to see an actual, local, Native American artist commissioned to create a truly authentic logo and have the team pay royalties to the artist and tribe. Otherwise, just create a logo that has nothing at all to do with the Native artwork. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 10:29 AM, BellaSpurs said:

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There's two different changes in between those but the spur itself is an improvement.

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On 11/29/2018 at 12:16 AM, andrewharrington said:

Even though the stick is angled, there’s no perspective or depth to it, so the monogram *is* literally flat. It always has been, even in the context of the primary logo.

 

I'll give you no depth.  Obviously there can't no perspective if the stick is angled.
 

Quote

 If anything, squaring up the stick brings it into proper alignment with the letters and syncs up the style of the two elements, both of which help achieve the team’s goal (making the NY monogram into a better stand-alone mark)..


I think it eliminates the only interesting thing about the logo. 
 

Quote

I think you’re reaching with the Sharks comparison. Surely you can’t expect a two-dimensional icon with this degree of simplification to display the same kind of articulation as an illustrative logo like San Jose’s.

 

Making the stripes, that now double as tape, extend to the edge of the stick-blade is hardly articulation.

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7 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Interesting. I see it the other way. I see the new one as the outsider saying the Native art is "ok but we can make it better". Kind of insulting (as someone with Native heritage myself). In a perfect world, I would have loved to see an actual, local, Native American artist commissioned to create a truly authentic logo and have the team pay royalties to the artist and tribe. Otherwise, just create a logo that has nothing at all to do with the Native artwork. 

I prefer the current.. They're the Seahawks, not the Natives.. I understand the original logo was based on native American artwork (actually it just ripped it off).. But the modern one maintains enough of the character of the native American art style, while making it a better logo overall, AND avoid ripping off the native American art 

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7 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Interesting. I see it the other way. I see the new one as the outsider saying the Native art is "ok but we can make it better". Kind of insulting (as someone with Native heritage myself). In a perfect world, I would have loved to see an actual, local, Native American artist commissioned to create a truly authentic logo and have the team pay royalties to the artist and tribe. Otherwise, just create a logo that has nothing at all to do with the Native artwork. 

 

I can respect that position. I think your suggestion is definitely the ideal one, but if they did simply rip off a piece of native art and didn’t commission an artist, compensate him/her, or do those other things you mentioned, then that completely flips my position on it. The success depends on proper ethics.

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9 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Interesting. I see it the other way. I see the new one as the outsider saying the Native art is "ok but we can make it better". Kind of insulting (as someone with Native heritage myself). In a perfect world, I would have loved to see an actual, local, Native American artist commissioned to create a truly authentic logo and have the team pay royalties to the artist and tribe. Otherwise, just create a logo that has nothing at all to do with the Native artwork. 

 

an incredibly difficult line to walk. easy to see why they updated the logo; its more "NFL football" though it does lose the handmade, Native je ne sais quoi. im with Harry in that i think it does a great job of being a streamlined, highly crafted interpretation of the original and also more NFL appropriate. but then, when it comes to a logo like this, is it worth it? i mean, would it be better to be a lesser logo to be a more authentic piece of art? even if that represents not much more than a football team on which many races play on? 

 

having gone through this process myself (New Zealand) you never want to be wrong with it. you never want it to look like a white guy from a different country did it, ya know? (which is why we worked with multiple Maori on that NZ brand to keep ourselves in check). hard to know how to feel about these, but i think Seattle has done well with it and have at least had good intentions. i don't think Washington can say the same and i at least feel better about using the art style to represent the team (or an inspired art style) rather than having an actual Native mascot which encourages people to "celebrate" it in the wrong ways (Washington / KC)

 

i dont know; with that NZ project, its something im sensitive to as well and i think about this topic almost every day. its tough.

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14 hours ago, BrandMooreArt said:

 

an incredibly difficult line to walk. easy to see why they updated the logo; its more "NFL football" though it does lose the handmade, Native je ne sais quoi. im with Harry in that i think it does a great job of being a streamlined, highly crafted interpretation of the original and also more NFL appropriate. but then, when it comes to a logo like this, is it worth it? i mean, would it be better to be a lesser logo to be a more authentic piece of art? even if that represents not much more than a football team on which many races play on? 

 

having gone through this process myself (New Zealand) you never want to be wrong with it. you never want it to look like a white guy from a different country did it, ya know? (which is why we worked with multiple Maori on that NZ brand to keep ourselves in check). hard to know how to feel about these, but i think Seattle has done well with it and have at least had good intentions. i don't think Washington can say the same and i at least feel better about using the art style to represent the team (or an inspired art style) rather than having an actual Native mascot which encourages people to "celebrate" it in the wrong ways (Washington / KC)

 

i dont know; with that NZ project, its something im sensitive to as well and i think about this topic almost every day. its tough.

You mention Washington but what many don't realize is their logo was created by a Native American and with the blessing of the Native American leaders. Times change we all know but in a crazy twist, it may seem that Washington actually did it right? 

 

"The Redskins logo in use today was first designed in 1971 in close consultation with Native American leaders. Among those who unanimously approved and voiced praise for the logo was Walter "Blackie" Wetzel, a former President of the National Congress of American Indians and Chairman of the Blackfeet Nation. Years earlier, Mr. Wetzel had been deeply involved with U.S. President John F. Kennedy in the movement for civil liberties, civil rights, and economic freedom for all. In 2014, Mr. Wetzel's son Don commented, “It needs to be said that an Indian from the State of Montana created that [Redskins] logo, and did it the right way. It represents the Red Nation, and it's something to be proud of.”

http://www.redskinsfacts.com/facts

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1 hour ago, hawk36 said:

You mention Washington but what many don't realize is their logo was created by a Native American and with the blessing of the Native American leaders. Times change we all know but in a crazy twist, it may seem that Washington actually did it right? 

 

"The Redskins logo in use today was first designed in 1971 in close consultation with Native American leaders. Among those who unanimously approved and voiced praise for the logo was Walter "Blackie" Wetzel, a former President of the National Congress of American Indians and Chairman of the Blackfeet Nation. Years earlier, Mr. Wetzel had been deeply involved with U.S. President John F. Kennedy in the movement for civil liberties, civil rights, and economic freedom for all. In 2014, Mr. Wetzel's son Don commented, “It needs to be said that an Indian from the State of Montana created that [Redskins] logo, and did it the right way. It represents the Red Nation, and it's something to be proud of.”

http://www.redskinsfacts.com/facts

 

right, and another example of "good logo vs authentic art" and finding that balance. i suppose the intention there was good (without going into that rabbit hole) with the logo...then theres the name... but that's one of the more difficult logos to work with in small print and embroidery. and it is a logo, it's required to be extremely flexible and reproduce at a consistent and high quality level of every size and application. in that regard, Seattle's mark is very strong and Washington's... not so much. then, you're right back into unpacking all the things that come with this subject matter. what's right and where is the appropriate balance? how "football" should it be?

 

these last 2 post i struggle with ending. such a complex matter. i guess i just hope i did it right with the opportunity i had. 

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Although this is an update of a defunct logo, the University of Kentucky's Wildcat from 1989 to 1994 was a wildcat reaching over the interlocking "U" and "K". This logo was, however, reviewed critically due to the mascot having a tongue shaped like a certain inappropriate body part. An update in 1994 saw the wildcat change to gold fur and made the tongue less phallic, which is a great upgrade in my eyes. This was also the wildcat logo I experienced growing up, and it holds a dear place in my heart from when I was a child.

 

Here are the 2 logos.

 

kentucky-old-new-logo_6_0.jpg

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Those college refreshes reminded me of this one.

 

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On 11/29/2018 at 2:16 AM, andrewharrington said:

Connecting directly to the primary logo wasn’t the goal here.

 

Do you know that for a fact?   That’s an awfully declarative statement. 

 

Because from an outside perspective, it looks like that was precisely the original goal, first in isolating an element from the primary logo and then later altering it slightly for its stand-alone purpose. 

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18 hours ago, eastfirst107 said:

Continuing the tour of North Carolina...

The Tar Heels cleaned up the Strutting Ram:

ab88e01990605004bcc28671d61039e1.gif63963.jpg

 

Each of these makes me loathe the new Bucky Badger even more.  To see what a better designer could have done with him. 

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I remember that thread; it had the beautiful update of the Milwaukee Brewers’ 1940s mascot. 

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6 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Each of these makes me loathe the new Bucky Badger even more.  To see what a better designer could have done with him. 

 

Just an FYI, the NC State wolf mascot that you said you like, and the Bucky you loathe, were done by the same designer.

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I've been feeling the same about Buckingham U Badger. So of course I had to take my shot at it over in the Concepts section. 

 

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7 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Do you know that for a fact?   That’s an awfully declarative statement. 

 

Because from an outside perspective, it looks like that was precisely the original goal, first in isolating an element from the primary logo and then later altering it slightly for its stand-alone purpose. 

 

Yes. They already had the “secondary logo” version of the NY stick. They briefed a new one because the approach of the old one (connecting directly to the primary mark) didn’t work very well. They wanted a better stand alone mark, whether it connects to the rest of the identity or not. Who knows. Maybe they’re testing the waters for an update. One can dream.

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