Cleveland Indians Unveil New Uniform, Cap for 2019

[Glover]

47 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Are Indians ownership or a sizable contingent of Indians fans wringing their hands about a name change, or is this a problem we've projected upon them?

Indians ownership has stated the name won't be changed. Very few fans want the name to change. A handful of fans think a name change is inevitable and just want to get it over with.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/2018/01/cleveland_indians_chief_wahoo_paul_dolan.html

 

Quote

"Not only are we adamant about keeping the name Indians, but the Commissioner (Rob Manfred) is similarly supportive of the name," said Dolan. "Yes, some people will continue to make noise about that, but I'm not troubled by its use. The Commissioner is not troubled by the use of the name. We are confident the name will continue on."

 

[leopard88]

19 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Indeed - we used to talk about the greatest logos not currently being used.  Well, "Spiders" is probably the greatest historical identity currently lying fallow. 

 

It would have the unintended side effect of creeping out my vote.  We visited the Univ. of Richmond on a college tour with our son a few months ago and she thought the Spiders nickname was creepy.  The team should obviously take her opinion into consideration.  

[BeerGuyJordan]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Are Indians ownership or a sizable contingent of Indians fans wringing their hands about a name change, or is this a problem we've projected upon them?

 

I think it's a problem they hung around their own necks by refusing to get rid of Wahoo for so long. They've backed themselves into a corner where they have almost no imagery that ties directly into the team's history that isn't problematic. I do think it's a bigger problem than they care to admit, but not as big as some people project it to be. The case in Toronto proves the former, the fact that they took so long to get rid of Wahoo proves the latter.

52 minutes ago, selby56 said:

Indians ownership has stated the name won't be changed. Very few fans want the name to change. A handful of fans think a name change is inevitable and just want to get it over with.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/2018/01/cleveland_indians_chief_wahoo_paul_dolan.html

 

 

Yeah, well they also swore Wahoo wasn't going anywhere, either. 2013, at the latest, IIRC.

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, the admiral said:

Are Indians ownership or a sizable contingent of Indians fans wringing their hands about a name change, or is this a problem we've projected upon them?

It's classic CCSLC projection. Like whenever someone says "everyone wants the NFL to drop the one helmet rule." Does everyone really want that or is it just our niche corner of the inner webs?

Same thing here. We're a group of people that tends to skew towards placing uniforms and logos higher on the priority list than a lot of teams probably have them. So you get a group of people interested in new uniforms and logos and yeah a new name seems fun because it means all new stuff. And people can conjure up ideas for uniforms related to any name they want to champion.

 

Problem is...I don't think anyone beyond us is even seriously considering a name change. "Indians" isn't a derogatory term like "Redskins" is, and there's precedent in baseball for older teams to have traditional, simple looks that don't necessarily lean into the team nickname. So keeping "Indians" with a block C cap logo and classic script wordmarks is probably the most realistic option. No one's renaming the team the Spiders in the 21st century.

 

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

I don't know, I think changing the name to Spiders is a clever workaround.

Weren't the Spiders historically awful though?

 

42 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Yeah, well they also swore Wahoo wasn't going anywhere, either. 2013, at the latest, IIRC.

The difference was even in 2013? Anyone not blinded by nostalgic attachment to Wahoo could see his days were numbered. It was a matter of "when" not "if." It's a racist cartoon that the team clung to for far too long and keeping it was going to prove to be even more untenable with each passing season.

 

That's not the case with the name "Indians." I'm really tiptoeing around our own rules here, but in the name of rational, objective discussion? The term "Indians" to refer to the Native inhabitants of the Americas was born of a mistake, not malicious intent to degrade them. Columbus and co. seriously thought they were Indians from India. It's an incorrect name that just sort of stuck.

Given the fact that the name was (and is) just another name for Natives peoples (granted, one with a funky origin) and not intended as a slur? I think keeping it is fine if they go the traditional route with a block C logo and script wordmark.

 

[FiddySicks]

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

I don't know, I think changing the name to Spiders is a clever workaround.

 

This is what I'm hoping they do. 

 

That name with a black, purple, and red color scheme would be fantastic. 

[Gothamite]

20 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Weren't the Spiders historically awful though?

 

Does anybody know?

 

Does anybody care?

 

I think that's another of the projections you mention.  Blowing it out of proportion, something that only hardcore baseball history fans might know about, and I doubt even many of them would care all that much about the 1899 won/loss record if the name is revived.

[MJWalker45]

3 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

That name with a black, purple, and red color scheme would be fantastic. 

Not a fan of those colors. I think you'd see a change of shade but not a full color change.

[FiddySicks]

9 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Not a fan of those colors. I think you'd see a change of shade but not a full color change.

 

There are already so many navy, red, and white teams. It’d be the perfect opportunity to rid the league of one of them and separate themselves. Also, why half ass it by keeping the same color scheme? If they’re gonna make such a drastic change (which they probably should), they should go all out.

[MJWalker45]

7 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

There are already so many navy, red, and white teams. It’d be the perfect opportunity to rid the league of one of them and separate themselves. Also, why half ass it by keeping the same color scheme? If they’re gonna make such a drastic change (which they probably should), they should go all out.

Not that far out though. I can't see the Dolan's singing off on that either. 

[IceCap]

20 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Does anybody know?

 

Does anybody care?

 

I think that's another of the projections you mention.  Blowing it out of proportion, something that only hardcore baseball history fans might know about, and I doubt even many of them would care all that much about the 1899 won/loss record if the name is revived.

Probably, but the drive to change the name is itself a projection. I don't see it happening, and I don't see the vast majority of people pushing for it now that Wahoo is gone. The truly objectionable part of the identity has been dealt with.

[The_Admiral]

uhhh, let me be clear, if you, uh, you like your, ah, you like your baseball team's name, you can keep it

[IceCap]

12 minutes ago, the admiral said:

uhhh, let me be clear, if you, uh, you like your, ah, you like your baseball team's name, you can keep it

 

[daveindc]

44 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Does anybody know?

 

Does anybody care?

 

I think that's another of the projections you mention.  Blowing it out of proportion, something that only hardcore baseball history fans might know about, and I doubt even many of them would care all that much about the 1899 won/loss record if the name is revived.

 

 

You just pretty much argued against reviving that dumb name Spiders in the first place. It's just a crappy name with no historical value. They might as well go with something new.

 

 

[SFGiants58]

26 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Probably, but the drive to change the name is itself a projection. I don't see it happening, and I don't see the vast majority of people pushing for it now that Wahoo is gone. The truly objectionable part of the identity has been dealt with.

 

The other option is to simply use a “Cleveland” script/wordmark and the block C, without any reference to the name. Get the point where the roundel says “Cleveland Baseball Club.”

 

Cleveland BC would be a unique direction to take. At the very least, it’s look better than how the Rangers and Marlins handle it.

 

Just now, daveindc said:

You just pretty much argued against reviving that dumb name Spiders in the first place. It's just a crappy name with no historical value. They might as well go with something new.

 

Qualify what is so crappy about “Spiders,” please. I’m open to plenty of other names (especially Guardians, named after those cool statues outside The Jake), but “Spiders” is decidedly unique (an arachnid).

[Gothamite]

8 minutes ago, daveindc said:

You just pretty much argued against reviving that dumb name Spiders in the first place. It's just a crappy name with no historical value. They might as well go with something new.

 

That’s my point - it is new.  To almost everyone it’s a new, interesting, unique name with a lot of potential.   The history is only icing on the cake for the very few people who would care about such things. 

[daveindc]

Just now, SFGiants58 said:

Qualify what is so crappy about “Spiders,” please. I’m open to plenty of other names (especially Guardians, named after those cool statues outside The Jake), but “Spiders” is decidedly unique (an arachnid).

 

 

It's just an ugly little creature that creeps most people out. I know some people find them "cool", but most people just see them as pests. I just don't understand branding any sports team as Spiders.

 

 

[FiddySicks]

3 minutes ago, daveindc said:

 

 

It's just an ugly little creature that creeps most people out. I know some people find them "cool", but most people just see them as pests. I just don't understand branding any sports team as Spiders.

 

 

 

Most people are really, really stupid. 

[IceCap]

18 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

The other option is to simply use a “Cleveland” script/wordmark and the block C, without any reference to the name. Get the point where the roundel says “Cleveland Baseball Club.”

 

Cleveland BC would be a unique direction to take. At the very least, it’s look better than how the Rangers and Marlins handle it.

I’m against the “[Sports] Club” team name thing in NA sports outside of soccer, to be honest. It works in soccer because that’s part of the sport’s naming conventions. It’s not the case in any other traditional in NA sports though. It strikes me as contrived. 

 

18 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Qualify what is so crappy about “Spiders,” please. I’m open to plenty of other names (especially Guardians, named after those cool statues outside The Jake), but “Spiders” is decidedly unique (an arachnid).

Spiders isn’t a bad name, but again. The name “Indians” isn’t inherently problematic without Wahoo, nor is it something most are aiming to change. It’s probably best to just go with a nice, simple “Cleveland Indians” look without Native imagery and lean into the classic baseball aesthetic ala Yankees and Dodgers. 

[daveindc]

10 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

Most people are really, really stupid. 

 

Why is that? A spider is just a creature people step on or smash with a rolled up magazine when they see one crawling in their house. You might as well call them the Cleveland Cockroaches. 

[Gothamite]

33 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The name “Indians” isn’t inherently problematic without Wahoo, nor is it something most are aiming to change. 

 

Well...

 

I'll grant you the latter.  The former is highly debatable.