Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2019

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34 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

MLS face planted really hard with some of their early decisions. The Chivas USA debacle was pretty embarrassing, and before that their original failed foray into Florida nearly sunk the entire league. They took those lessons to heart though, and have really impressed me with the way they’ve grown since then. They have extremely rigorous standards when it comes to team placement, but it’s proven itself to be the right decision. A lot of young leagues could learn a thing or two from their particular business model. 

How did Tampa Bay and Miami Fusion "sink" the league since their fees pushed USM to assist buying the rights to Korea/Japan2002

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People say Chivas USA was a disaster, but Erick Cubo Torres had an amazing run on that team and was never good anywhere else.

 

 

 

I always wanted to find a Torres Chivas USA shirt, but I've never been successful.

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It wasn't that the Florida teams were sinking the league; the league as a whole was doing that overall.  It was a good decision, however, to cut out two bad ownership groups (not necessarily markets) at the time and refocus efforts.

People like to have a go at Don Garber, but his early days included helping to save the entire league.

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Every Commissioner becomes a target for mockery and scorn; that’s part of the job.  Even for good ones.  And especially online.  And especially especially with the unique position of MLS. 

 

But objectively, Garber’s record is a very positive one. They’re working now to lay the foundation that will support the league for decades to come.

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Well, the problem in the early years from what I remember is that MLS had lost a TON of money (which is kind of to be expected from a young league) and weren’t getting any help from either of their Florida franchises. Fusion had some on field success and a pretty team friendly stadium situation, but their overall revenues were alarmingly low and the league ended up footing the bill on part of their debt. Tampa, I think, never found an ownership group and was being propped up by the league for the duration of their existence with little to no positive return financially. Maybe me stating that it almost “sunk” the league is a bit overstated, but at the time those two teams were shuttered it was absolutely necessary because they had to cut back on spending somewhere. If they wanted to turn things around revenue wise, they really had to trim the fat on organizations that both couldn’t find solid ownership groups and were losing money. 

 

Overall point is, MLS learned a lesson from some of their earlier missteps and it reflects in their overall business model. 

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One of the things that happened on Garber's watch was the emphasis on MLS teams getting their own stadiums.  A large majority of the MLS teams have their own stadiums in which they are the main tenant.  Not all of them have their own stadiums, but most of them do.  All of the expansion teams have their own stadium plans, which is a good thing for MLS. 

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Absolutely.  They won’t let in a club without a stadium the new owners control, be it a temporary venue like Yankee Stadium, a multi-purpose place like whatever Seattle is calling theirs today, or a SSS.  That’s smart. 

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20 hours ago, GDAWG said:

Orlando seems to be working out

Maybe on paper.

 

We have one of the most dysfunctional front offices in MLS, attendance has been declining pretty much every game over the last two years, and overall the soccer fever that swept the city when OC got into MLS seems to be dying out.

 

Now, Miami’s going to walk in with their multiple superstars and steal a good bit of our fans, especially the ones who don’t live here (but root for Orlando because they’re the Florida team). We’ll always have the core fanbase and the stadium, but I wouldn’t be surprised if, in ten years, OCSC is widely regarded as one of the “failed” teams of this expansion era. Especially if the FO continues to be inept and couldn’t be able to field a competitive team if Messi and Ronaldo walked in for free.

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Very weird situation in Reno tonight. They had a recent split of their supporters group (long story), and the front office took sides, leaving one half of their supporters group out in the cold (dumb idea for a team that’s already struggling for attendance). Sacramento Republic’s supporters group (Tower Bridge Battalion) reached out to members of the displaced Reno supporters and basically offered to take them in for the match. They took TBB up on their offer, bailed out on Reno (even going as far as to chuck their Reno 1868 gear in the trash and put on Sac Republic gear), and came and drummed with our supporters and rooted for Republic. We then proceeded to blow the doors off of Reno in what turned out to a de facto home game (In the playoffs!) for Republic. Absolutely surreal scene. We outdrew our biggest rivals in a playoff game in their own stadium. 

 

What an an absolute mess they’ve got on their hands out in Reno. They’ve been nothing but dysfunctional and an absolute nightmare to deal with since the minute they entered the USL. I can’t even imagine dealing with that type of dysfunction and toxicity from top to bottom like they have.

 

Then, the news broke right in the middle of the El Paso vs Fresno playoff match (Which was released by Fresno’s very own newspaper, no less) that Fresno FC has been unable to work out a stadium deal with the city, and will either be moving after the season or just folding altogether. Somehow the team got wind of this, completely collapsed with a lead, and lost the match. 

 

 

Great day for Republic to cap off the greatest week in club history. But my goodness, what an absolutely strange day for the USL. 

 

Edit: And that doesn’t even touch on Phoenix’s heart attack inducing win in the shootout vs the lowest seed left! 

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19 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Very weird situation in Reno tonight. They had a recent split of their supporters group (long story), and the front office took sides, leaving one half of their supporters group out in the cold (dumb idea for a team that’s already struggling for attendance). Sacramento Republic’s supporters group (Tower Bridge Battalion) reached out to members of the displaced Reno supporters and basically offered to take them in for the match. They took TBB up on their offer, bailed out on Reno (even going as far as to chuck their Reno 1868 gear in the trash and put on Sac Republic gear), and came and drummed with our supporters and rooted for Republic. We then proceeded to blow the doors off of Reno in what turned out to a de facto home game (In the playoffs!) for Republic. Absolutely surreal scene. We outdrew our biggest rivals in a playoff game in their own stadium. 

 

What an an absolute mess they’ve got on their hands out in Reno. They’ve been nothing but dysfunctional and an absolute nightmare to deal with since the minute they entered the USL. I can’t even imagine dealing with that type of dysfunction and toxicity from top to bottom like they have.

 

Then, the news broke right in the middle of the El Paso vs Fresno playoff match (Which was released by Fresno’s very own newspaper, no less) that Fresno FC has been unable to work out a stadium deal with the city, and will either be moving after the season or just folding altogether. Somehow the team got wind of this, completely collapsed with a lead, and lost the match. 

 

 

Great day for Republic to cap off the greatest week in club history. But my goodness, what an absolutely strange day for the USL. 

 

Edit: And that doesn’t even touch on Phoenix’s heart attack inducing win in the shootout vs the lowest seed left! 

Such a shame that Phoenix couldnt lose. Nothing personal, just need them out.

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20 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Very weird situation in Reno tonight. They had a recent split of their supporters group (long story), and the front office took sides, leaving one half of their supporters group out in the cold (dumb idea for a team that’s already struggling for attendance). Sacramento Republic’s supporters group (Tower Bridge Battalion) reached out to members of the displaced Reno supporters and basically offered to take them in for the match. They took TBB up on their offer, bailed out on Reno (even going as far as to chuck their Reno 1868 gear in the trash and put on Sac Republic gear), and came and drummed with our supporters and rooted for Republic. We then proceeded to blow the doors off of Reno in what turned out to a de facto home game (In the playoffs!) for Republic. Absolutely surreal scene. We outdrew our biggest rivals in a playoff game in their own stadium. 

 

What an an absolute mess they’ve got on their hands out in Reno. They’ve been nothing but dysfunctional and an absolute nightmare to deal with since the minute they entered the USL. I can’t even imagine dealing with that type of dysfunction and toxicity from top to bottom like they have.

 

Then, the news broke right in the middle of the El Paso vs Fresno playoff match (Which was released by Fresno’s very own newspaper, no less) that Fresno FC has been unable to work out a stadium deal with the city, and will either be moving after the season or just folding altogether. Somehow the team got wind of this, completely collapsed with a lead, and lost the match. 

 

 

Great day for Republic to cap off the greatest week in club history. But my goodness, what an absolutely strange day for the USL. 

 

Edit: And that doesn’t even touch on Phoenix’s heart attack inducing win in the shootout vs the lowest seed left! 

 

That's some surreal stuff out of Reno. That organization is an absolute cluster:censored:. Hopefully the Republic will go with another club as their USL feeder team. New Mexico United is first class. Maybe them?

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20 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Very weird situation in Reno tonight. They had a recent split of their supporters group (long story), and the front office took sides, leaving one half of their supporters group out in the cold (dumb idea for a team that’s already struggling for attendance). Sacramento Republic’s supporters group (Tower Bridge Battalion) reached out to members of the displaced Reno supporters and basically offered to take them in for the match. They took TBB up on their offer, bailed out on Reno (even going as far as to chuck their Reno 1868 gear in the trash and put on Sac Republic gear), and came and drummed with our supporters and rooted for Republic. We then proceeded to blow the doors off of Reno in what turned out to a de facto home game (In the playoffs!) for Republic. Absolutely surreal scene. We outdrew our biggest rivals in a playoff game in their own stadium. 

 

What an an absolute mess they’ve got on their hands out in Reno. They’ve been nothing but dysfunctional and an absolute nightmare to deal with since the minute they entered the USL. I can’t even imagine dealing with that type of dysfunction and toxicity from top to bottom like they have.

 

Then, the news broke right in the middle of the El Paso vs Fresno playoff match (Which was released by Fresno’s very own newspaper, no less) that Fresno FC has been unable to work out a stadium deal with the city, and will either be moving after the season or just folding altogether. Somehow the team got wind of this, completely collapsed with a lead, and lost the match. 

 

 

Great day for Republic to cap off the greatest week in club history. But my goodness, what an absolutely strange day for the USL. 

 

Edit: And that doesn’t even touch on Phoenix’s heart attack inducing win in the shootout vs the lowest seed left! 

 

So basically Herb Simon, who owns Reno is an absentee owner.  Why is that not surprising to me?

 

Also, issues coming out of Hartford:

 

https://www.soctakes.com/2019/10/24/hartford-athletic-problems/

 

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23 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

And that doesn’t even touch on Phoenix’s heart attack inducing win in the shootout vs the lowest seed left! 


Game was more frustrating because of the absolutely no nonsense defense they came with that we seemed to have really worn down, but then had nothing come of it besides chances that almost cost us the game due to uncharacteristic play.Win is a win though. 

 

I’m not looking forward to another 90 mins with my head in my hands if we decide to play like that again against Monarch. 

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11 hours ago, Wings said:

 

That's some surreal stuff out of Reno. That organization is an absolute cluster:censored:. Hopefully the Republic will go with another club as their USL feeder team. New Mexico United is first class. Maybe them?

How about not having a 2 team in USL championship.

 

You want a 2 team, make one for yourself in USL 1

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11 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

So basically Herb Simon, who owns Reno is an absentee owner.  Why is that not surprising to me?

 

Also, issues coming out of Hartford:

 

https://www.soctakes.com/2019/10/24/hartford-athletic-problems/

 

 

One of our players was loaned out to Hartford this season and he said while he enjoyed his time there, there were some pretty serious issues with the way they funded things. The term "Shoestring as can possibly be" was used more than once. 

 

8 hours ago, TheHealthiestScratch said:

Such a shame that Phoenix couldn't lose. Nothing personal, just need them out.

 

Tell me about it. Phoenix losing was basically our last hope of getting another home match this year. 

 

Edit: That last quote was in response to @DiePerske. No idea why the boards defaulted that response to THS.

 

 

Also, it's a real bummer what's happening in Reno with their USL club right now, but I can't say it surprises me at all. Reno is such a strange place. It's depressingly lifeless, has almost no culture of it's own, and has just enough underlying racism to be problematic without anyone feeling compelled to do or say anything about it. I had sort of forgotten about all that until I went there this past weekend. I consider Reno to be my "Home" territory (At least, it's the biggest 'large" city near where I grew up) and I don't miss anything about it. Sacramento isn't seen by anyone as a real cosmopolitan area, but it might as well be Manhattan in comparison to Reno. It really made me appreciate what we have with this club and this city so much more than I already do. 

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On 10/26/2019 at 12:52 AM, GDAWG said:

 

...they have chosen the right cities, those with soccer history and die hard fan bases.

 

On 10/26/2019 at 10:01 AM, Mockba said:

It wasn't that the Florida teams were sinking the league; the league as a whole was doing that overall.  It was a good decision, however, to cut out two bad ownership groups (not necessarily markets) at the time and refocus efforts.

 

On 10/26/2019 at 11:55 AM, Bucfan56 said:

 Tampa, I think, never found an ownership group and was being propped up by the league for the duration of their existence with little to no positive return financially.

 

...which makes me cringe and lament what happened with Tampa Bay.

 

You had one of the strongest, (if not THE strongest) former NASL cities in the league at the start, a great history and fan base.  Then, like far too much of the league, instead of acknowledging that shared beloved history, they come up with absolutely idiotic-- not just 'wacky', but stupid and idiotic-- team names/logos, in this case, some type of alien space bat/insect with the incongruous singular nickname "Mutiny".

 

It would have been great for them to be the FIRST MLS team to acknowledge their heritage and go back to the green and gold look and Rowdies name  (the way the San Jose Clash went back to their Earthquakes roots, and the expansion Sounders, Timbers and Whitecaps honored their NASL roots). 

 

Then, get an ownership group (damn, wish the Glazer family wouldn't have passed on that),  play in the lower level of Raymond James for a few years, then build an SSS somewhere on the east side of the bay. 

 

Damn, what could have (or should have) been....

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8 minutes ago, B-Rich said:

 

 

 

...which makes me cringe and lament what happened with Tampa Bay.

 

You had one of the strongest, (if not THE strongest) former NASL cities in the league at the start, a great history and fan base.  Then, like far too much of the league, instead of acknowledging that shared beloved history, they come up with absolutely idiotic-- not just 'wacky', but stupid and idiotic-- team names/logos, in this case, some type of alien space bat/insect with the incongruous singular nickname "Mutiny".

 

It would have been great for them to be the FIRST MLS team to acknowledge their heritage and go back to the green and gold look and Rowdies name  (the way the San Jose Clash went back to their Earthquakes roots, and the expansion Sounders, Timbers and Whitecaps honored their NASL roots). 

 

Then, get an ownership group (damn, wish the Glazer family wouldn't have passed on that),  play in the lower level of Raymond James for a few years, then build an SSS somewhere on the east side of the bay. 

 

Damn, what could have (or should have) been....

As an aside, I found "Mutiny" to be an odd choice for a sports nickname. I can't think of a single reference to a mutiny in sports that's considered a positive. It usually means you're crumbling from within. 

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:18 AM, GDAWG said:

USL League One Stadium in Lexington, Kentucky discussed:

 

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/10/usl-lexington-stadium-being-discussed/

 

It would have made a nice in state rivalry for Louisville City FC

Would it be?  Louisville would be in Championship and Lexington in League One....outside of maybe a preseason match thats all theyd have.

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20 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

As an aside, I found "Mutiny" to be an odd choice for a sports nickname. I can't think of a single reference to a mutiny in sports that's considered a positive. It usually means you're crumbling from within. 

 

I just found this online after searching. I can't confirm the legitimacy of it, but it sounds like the absolute most Nike thing imaginable. 

 

Quote

I worked on some of the early local advertising for the club back in 1996. Here's what we were told:
The name and logo were chosen by a design team at Nike that created all of the original MLS team logos and uniform systems. People (including us at the ad agency) initially assumed that it followed the same the pirate lineage as the city's NFL franchise, the Buccaneers. Since the logo didn't look at all "pirate-y" we pressed for clarification, as did others. I remember the eye-rolling throughout the agency when it was announced by Nike that the name was futuristic and referred to "a group of mutant beings" -presumably like the figure on the team's crest. When further pressed as to how this creature could play soccer, the design team at Nike, in one of the most contrived responses of all time, stated that as a mutant he controlled the ball with his mind.
Too bad he couldn't control the minds of the fans, who despite the team's early success, never fully warmed up to "the bat" as we used to call him, or the franchise for that matter.

 

Good Lord. 

 

I always figured it had some link to the novel Mutiny On The HMS Bounty, which would be weird enough in it's own right. I guess not. 

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