infrared41's Best and Worst - NFL 2018 Week 15

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Just say you don’t respect him at all, say that he “talks down” to everybody, and move on with it. It would be helpful if you made your attitudes towards him more transparent.

 

While we're here...

 

I think I can also speak for Ice_Cap when I say that I have nothing but respect for Brandon's ability. The guy is a serious talent. I can't recall too many times when I didn't like one of Brandon's concepts. In fact, I still think Brandon is the first call the Browns should make for their upcoming uniform change. He did a Browns concept a while back that was the best Browns concept I've seen to date. Point being, I think both Ice_Cap and myself have the utmost respect for Brandon's ability. 

 

Whether Brandon wants to admit it or not, he does on occasion "talk down to people." You know what? So do I. Doesn't make either one of us bad people, but it does make up ripe for occasional ridicule. That's just the way it is. 

[infrared41]

1 minute ago, BrandMooreArt said:

 

i can live with that. i certainly know not every thing i say online comes across as intended by the reader. sorry if i jumped to a conclusion. i look forward to doing it all again this week  

 

It's all good. Now get on the phone to my Cleveland Browns and make them use your Browns concept for their new uniforms. 

[IceCap]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I’ve only occasionally gotten the “talking down” angle. Please cite examples, so that we can better understand.

I mean I'm not going to go through every BMA post. Sorry? I'm not trying to dodge your question, but between a wide post history and the fact that such an endeavour, if I were to undertake it, would derail the thread? Sorry, it's not a reasonable request.

 

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Just insisting that he’s “talking down” to people...

As I said, I don't like the whole "talk down to people." You can insist it's not a thing, but I don't know what to tell you in that regard, if it's something multiple people have picked up on. @infrared41 is right though. I have nothing respect for his abilities and insights he brings to this community. It just irks me how he sometimes chooses to carry himself here. And again, I've never hidden nor ran from that opinion of mine. So I'm unsure what you mean when you say you want me to be "more transparent" about it.

 

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...and trying to sush him at every opportunity isn’t productive.

I'm not trying to sush him. He's got a job working for an actual NFL team's branding department. That alone speaks to his skills in his field. He's quite capable of defending his position on any of these issues, as he's shown in this thread.

 

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

...are malicious. They show a clear disregard and disrespect for what Brandon is trying to say.

I think you're maybe missing some levity implied by 'red's post? Regardless, he's spoken on his own behalf, and it's not my place to defend his own post further.

 

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

People valuing colors over uniform design is legitimate. It’s just that your attitude and @infrared41‘s attitude comes off as occasionally malicious.

Again, I'm not sure what you're looking for me to say. Is valuing colours over design a legitimate point? Yeah. Is it one I agree with? No. It's a message board. People post opinions, and other people debate those opinions. Being a mod does not mean I have to take an objective viewpoint in every discussion.

And in this particular case? I can accept that people legitimately value colours over design, but it's not a position I agree with. And I'll explain my reasoning to the best of my abilities. I feel I've done that.

 

I'm unsure what I've said on the matter that comes off as malicious.

[SFGiants58]

37 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I mean I'm not going to go through every BMA post. Sorry? I'm not trying to dodge your question, but between a wide post history and the fact that such an endeavour, if I were to undertake it, would derail the thread? Sorry, it's not a reasonable request.

 

I get that. I'm just saying that it sounds like you have a grudge against him and that nothing he's done really warrants it. Sure, he talks down to people from time to time (something you've probably done, as I'm sure we all have), but it's not his defining trait here.

 

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As I said, I don't like the whole "talk down to people." You can insist it's not a thing, but I don't know what to tell you in that regard, if it's something multiple people have picked up on. @infrared41 is right though. I have nothing respect for his abilities and insights he brings to this community. It just irks me how he sometimes chooses to carry himself here. And again, I've never hidden nor ran from that opinion of mine. So I'm unsure what you mean when you say you want me to be "more transparent" about it.

 

Completely. I've pointed it out to him and @andrewharrington (who can be accused of "towing the company line" when talking about modern materials - something I agree with him on). What I mean by saying that you should be "more transparent about it" is that you should say something like: "Look, could you please try not to talk down to the people here? Maybe instead of putting it like this, you put it like this?" It'd be helpful and promote better discourse.

 

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I'm not trying to sush him. He's got a job working for an actual NFL team's branding department. That alone speaks to his skills in his field. He's quite capable of defending his position on any of these issues, as he's shown in this thread.

 

I agree, but there's also the board's general attitude towards people who work in branding departments and apparel companies (again, look at how much contempt people heap on Andrew Harrington in the NHL threads). 

 

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I think you're maybe missing some levity implied by 'red's post? Regardless, he's spoken on his own behalf, and it's not my place to defend his own post further.

 

Ah, that was a simple misread on my part. I'm sorry that I implied that it made you guys look malicious.

 

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Again, I'm not sure what you're looking for me to say. Is valuing colours over design a legitimate point? Yeah. Is it one I agree with? No. It's a message board. People post opinions, and other people debate those opinions. Being a mod does not mean I have to take an objective viewpoint in every discussion.

And in this particular case? I can accept that people legitimately value colours over design, but it's not a position I agree with. And I'll explain my reasoning to the best of my abilities. I feel I've done that.

 

I'm unsure what I've said on the matter that comes off as malicious.

 

Comments like "sportscolors.net" and the bit of 'red making fun of people who value colors over design comes off like you're dismissing and mocking people who disagree with you. It crosses a bit of line in respectful discourse, thereby looking a little malicious. That's why I have an issue with mods doing that, as like it or not, you guys arguably speak for the boards. I'd never expect objectivity, but I wouldn't want instigating.

 

I apologize if I've derailed the thread at all and if I've misinterpreted any of your statements. 

 

[infrared41]

39 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Comments like "sportscolors.net" and the bit of 'red making fun of people who value colors over design comes off like you're dismissing and mocking people who disagree with you. It crosses a bit of line in respectful discourse, thereby looking a little malicious. That's why I have an issue with mods doing that, as like it or not, you guys arguably speak for the boards. I'd never expect objectivity, but I wouldn't want instigating.

 

No offense, but that is just ridiculous. If you take this thread that seriously then maybe this thread isn't for you. Again, no offense, but you're coming across like someone who can't seem to differentiate between good natured barbs and actual malice towards someone. "SportsColors.net" was directed at exactly no one. It was simply my attempt at a humorous observation based on what has been happening in this thread of late. No more, no less. I wasn't "dismissing" or "mocking" anyone. In fact, if you had bothered to read the entire post, you would have noticed that I said I encourage differing opinions. I may not agree with them, but I never dismiss or mock them. The following is part of the first post every week in this thread...."As always, the lists are just my opinion. Your opinion may be different than mine and that's OK. All I ask is that we keep the conversation limited to the uniforms." 

 

If you think I'm "speaking for the boards" in this or any other thread then you have really missed the mark, my friend. I only "speak for the boards" when my position as a moderator requires it.

 

[SFGiants58]

10 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

No offense, but that is just ridiculous. If you take this thread that seriously then maybe this thread isn't for you. Again, no offense, but you're coming across like someone who can't seem to differentiate between good natured barbs and actual malice towards someone.

 

I don't take it seriously at all. Contextualized within the conversation, it didn't seem all that good-natured. It looked like you were getting frustrated with the way people were posting in the thread, venting with a few barbs. You never went this far out of your way to make fun of DennisBergan, somebody who thoroughly deserved his bashings. Yeah, I read a few thing with a bit more malice than what you intended, and for that I apologize. I'm just looking for malice where there isn't any.

 

10 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

"SportsColors.net" was directed at exactly no one. It was simply my attempt at a humorous observation based on what has been happening in this thread of late. No more, no less. I wasn't "dismissing" or "mocking" anyone.

 

It doesn't have to be directed at anybody to be malicious. Again, I'm just putting more weight on it than I needed to here.

 

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In fact, if you had bothered to read the entire post, you would have noticed that I said I encourage differing opinions. I may not agree with them, but I never dismiss or mock them. The following is part of the first post every week in this thread...."As always, the lists are just my opinion. Your opinion may be different than mine and that's OK. All I ask is that we keep the conversation limited to the uniforms." 

 

Oh, I've read it. I got the "mocking" part from the swatch post and the "SportsColors.net" comment, which I misinterpreted. I didn't think the numerous "emphasize colors" posters did anything to deserve it. I apologize for that. 

 

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If you think I'm "speaking for the boards" in this or any other thread then you have really missed the mark, my friend. I only "speak for the boards" when my position as a moderator requires it.

 

I don't think you're speaking for the boards at all. I'm trying to argue that moderator responsibilities mean that you are held to a higher standard of conduct than other members. That's all.

[BBTV]

Well this thread now sucks. Jesus people. How can “these are the games I liked because for whatever reason, I liked them” turn into such a battle? 

 

It’s all just subjective opinion that inspires a little discussion about why you agree or disagree. Anyone besides me telling anyone else that their wrong over something that’s so subjective is wrong themselves. 

 

Just stop it it so we can go back to enjoying these threads. 

 

FWIW, colors and sunlight can definitely compensate for imperfect uniforms, but even the most perfect uniforms playing each other might not make for an attractive game if it’s at night or if their colors are too dark or clashing. 

 

It comes down to “when I turned this game on, I liked the matchup”, regardless of the specific reason. There doesn’t need to be a formula. 

 

Now if youre critiquing a specif design, I’d say that more objective reasoning should go into it, but at the end of the day, despite what arrogant designers think, it comes down to “does the consumer like it?” more than if anyone recognizes the overly-thought-out design element that they’re so proud of and is so objectively in line with some valid design principal. 

[infrared41]

9 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

You never went this far out of your way to make fun of DennisBergan,

 

No, not in the last couple years he was here, but that was mostly because I'd grown bored with his antics and it was easier to just ignore him. But before that, I was as "mean" to him as I've ever been to anyone on these boards. Honestly, the fact that he was such an ass is probably what saved me from getting suspended for things I said to him. I seemed like less of an ass by comparison.

 

Look, if you read the whole "colors vs. uniforms" thing as some sort of "fight" or as frustration on my part then you read it wrong. It was never intended as, well, anything. As I said before, it was just an observation. The color swatch post was meant as a joke. Period. FWIW, the only person who seems to be bothered by any of it is you. 

 

 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Well this thread now sucks.

 

Yup. 

[SFGiants58]

34 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

Look, if you read the whole "colors vs. uniforms" thing as some sort of "fight" or as frustration on my part then you read it wrong. It was never intended as, well, anything. As I said before, it was just an observation. The color swatch post was meant as a joke. Period. FWIW, the only person who seems to be bothered by any of it is you. 

 

Yes, I did read it wrong. I’m not so much bothered by that as the general disregard for design professionals on this board, and this kind of fed into it. I apologize for that.

[oldschoolvikings]

1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

Yup. 

 

But now week 15 is over and week 16 is a whole new thread.

 

[infrared41]

19 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Yes, I did read it wrong. I’m not so much bothered by that as the general disregard for design professionals on this board, and this kind of fed into it. I apologize for that.

 

No worries. Sounds like the whole thing was just a big misunderstanding. Let's all shake hands and move on to this week's lists.

[infrared41]

8 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

But now week 15 is over and week 16 is a whole new thread.

 

 

And it's going to be a pretty good one. Lots to work with this week. 

[JTernup]

1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

And it's going to be a pretty good one. Lots to work with this week. 

Infrared, I know you don't like the Seahawks uniforms but that game last night was gorgeous, THINK OF THE COLORS!!! 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, JTernup said:

infrared, I know you don't like the Seahawks uniforms

 

That's too general. I don't like the Seahawks monochrome blue uniforms. The all white and white over gray have made the best list numerous times. The white over blue looks OK too, I just haven't seen it in a game that I thought was good enough for the best list.