Gothamite

San Diego Padres 2020 Rebrand Discussion

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On 10/19/2019 at 10:39 AM, -Akronite- said:

For some of these examples, and countless road jerseys, it shows baseball's weird tradition of making sure the road look is just a drab version of the home look. Sure, it's hard to overcome gray to look really good in the first place, but teams like the Indians and Astros also emphasize navy and turn their bright fun look at home into a "please don't notice me" look on the road. It's traditional and I suppose you want to let the home team shine but also why stick with it at this point in time?

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

 

Navy blue is a very popular color for caps, because it matches everything you buy at the Gap.  So many teams that have blue as a secondary color will make that the road cap so they can have navy blue “Authentics” for sale.

 

And for teams like the A’s and Orioles, they’re hedging their bets with a less garish version of the home cap.  White guys in their 40s don’t always want to wear something so flashy with their chinos.  Props to the teams for wanting a good brim or white front panel, but those are the kind of things that have scared merchandise directors for a long time.  So we get a solid-green and mostly-black for safety. 

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

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Then sell muted A's caps as fashion caps. People who need them will seek them out. The A's still shouldn't bother wearing them in games.

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29 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

 

Navy blue is a very popular color for caps, because it matches everything you buy at the Gap.  So many teams that have blue as a secondary color will make that the road cap so they can have navy blue “Authentics” for sale.

 

And for teams like the A’s and Orioles, they’re hedging their bets with a less garish version of the home cap.  White guys in their 40s don’t always want to wear something so flashy with their chinos.  Props to the teams for wanting a good brim or white front panel, but those are the kind of things that have scared merchandise directors for a long time.  So we get a solid-green and mostly-black for safety. 

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

 

 

Interesting. What research or available data are you basing this off of? You would think if an O's fan is big enough of a fan to spend money on a cap to wear outside of the stadium, he would have no problem wearing the team's colors proudly. If he wants to sometimes wear something less flashy, then there's plenty of these types caps available:

 

Men's Baltimore Orioles New Era Heathered Gray/Black The League Shadow 2 9FORTY Adjustable HatMen's Baltimore Orioles '47 Charcoal Nighthawk Closer Flex HatMen's Baltimore Orioles New Era Black Clubhouse Collection Low Profile 59FIFTY Fitted HatWomen's Baltimore Orioles New Era Brown Core Classic Twill 9TWENTY Camel Adjustable HatWomen's Baltimore Orioles New Era Camo Tonal Camo Core Classic 9TWENTY Adjustable Hat

 

These are only a handful of fashion caps available on the O's site, but you get the idea. These types of caps are popular around town. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, daveindc said:

You would think if an O's fan is big enough of a fan to spend money on a cap to wear outside of the stadium, he would have no problem wearing the team's colors proudly.

 

What makes you think that the Orioles are content selling merely to Orioles fans?

 

Besides, black and orange are the team’s colors. This road cap is very much the team’s color scheme, it’s just a little less garish than the white-paneled home cap. 

 

spacer.png

 

And yes, there are a ton of fashion caps out there.  But I think we all know there’s something different about an “authentic”.   Or clubs wouldn’t bother labeling those as such, and MLB wouldn’t be so desperate to get all the various cancer-caps and G.I. Joe Drag Show and the other special-interest caps worn on the diamond. 

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On 10/19/2019 at 10:39 AM, -Akronite- said:

For some of these examples, and countless road jerseys, it shows baseball's weird tradition of making sure the road look is just a drab version of the home look. Sure, it's hard to overcome gray to look really good in the first place, but teams like the Indians and Astros also emphasize navy and turn their bright fun look at home into a "please don't notice me" look on the road. It's traditional and I suppose you want to let the home team shine but also why stick with it at this point in time?

Some grey looks are my favourite in their respective sets 🤷‍♂️

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7 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

What makes you think that the Orioles are content selling merely to Orioles fans?

 

And yes, there are a ton of fashion caps out there.  But I think we all know there’s something different about an “authentic”.   Or clubs wouldn’t bother labeling those as such. 

 

 

Who the heck would wear an O's cap other than an O's fan? 😁 

I think the type of fan who wants an authentic cap isn't the same type of fan who worries about how flashy it is.

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5 minutes ago, daveindc said:

Who the heck would wear an O's cap other than an O's fan?

 

Have you noticed baseball’s business model for, oh, the last 30 years or so?  😛

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47 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Then sell muted A's caps as fashion caps. People who need them will seek them out. The A's still shouldn't bother wearing them in games.

 

They shouldn’t, but they do.  Same reason that the NFL dresses up its coaches in faux army uniforms, so they can promote it as “sideline gear”. 

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20 minutes ago, daveindc said:

 

 

Who the heck would wear an O's cap other than an O's fan? 😁 

I think the type of fan who wants an authentic cap isn't the same type of fan who worries about how flashy it is.

As an O's fan myself, I can tell you there's way more reason to like their caps than to like the actual team these past few years..

 

But as for that 2nd part, "fitteds" and authentics are popular fashion statements and are trendy.. they can be somewhat of a status symbol, like authentic jerseys are.. they're mentioned in countless rap songs and have become synonymous with celebrities such as Jay-Z.. I (along with others I've seen post about it on these boards) have been known to occasionally buy a team's hat simply because I like it, even if I'm not a fan of that team.. ball caps might be the single most merchandisable official uniform element in all of pro sports, so it makes sense that teams will often include an aesthetically inferior cap in their rotation if it's seen as more universal and may sell better..

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48 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Have you noticed baseball’s business model for, oh, the last 30 years or so?  😛

 

25 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

As an O's fan myself, I can tell you there's way more reason to like their caps than to like the actual team these past few years..

 

But as for that 2nd part, "fitteds" and authentics are popular fashion statements and are trendy.. they can be somewhat of a status symbol, like authentic jerseys are.. they're mentioned in countless rap songs and have become synonymous with celebrities such as Jay-Z.. I (along with others I've seen post about it on these boards) have been known to occasionally buy a team's hat simply because I like it, even if I'm not a fan of that team.. ball caps might be the single most merchandisable official uniform element in all of pro sports, so it makes sense that teams will often include an aesthetically inferior cap in their rotation if it's seen as more universal and may sell better..

 

 

Fitteds are one thing, authentic gear is another. New Era fashion fitteds having many different color options is how they became popular in the first place:

 

Image result for jay z fitted capImage result for jay z fitted capRelated imageImage result for jay z 2000sImage result for dipset

 

 

 

If someone is looking for a cool authentic to wear, they aren't worried about how flashy it is. They'll buy clothes (shoes, shirts, etc) to MATCH that authentic:

 

Image result for rappers wearing orioles gear

Image result for rapper orioles cap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, daveindc said:

 

 

 

Fitteds are one thing, authentic gear is another. New Era fashion fitteds having many different color options is how they became popular in the first place:

 

Image result for jay z fitted capImage result for jay z fitted capRelated imageImage result for jay z 2000sImage result for dipset

 

 

 

If someone is looking for a cool authentic to wear, they aren't worried about how flashy it is. They'll buy clothes (shoes, shirts, etc) to MATCH that authentic:

 

Image result for rappers wearing orioles gear

Image result for rapper orioles cap

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't say fitteds and authentics are different things when authentics are, in fact, fitteds.. yes, they make fashion fitteds, but I was specifically referring to official on-field New Era 5950's, and their popularity.. I can find photos of Jay-Z in an official NY fitted as easily as you can find one of a fashion fitted.. I mean, he literally has a hit song that contains the lyrics "I made the Yankees hat more famous than a Yankee can.." I don't think I really need to push that point home any further..

Ice Cube and the White Sox fitted with NWA also comes to mind.. 

Either way, teams choosing to incorporate a predominantly black or navy cap into their rotation is a smart marketing move, particularly if selling more hats is a goal..

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42 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

You can't say fitteds and authentics are different things when authentics are, in fact, fitteds.. yes, they make fashion fitteds, but I was specifically referring to official on-field New Era 5950's, and their popularity.. I can find photos of Jay-Z in an official NY fitted as easily as you can find one of a fashion fitted.. I mean, he literally has a hit song that contains the lyrics "I made the Yankees hat more famous than a Yankee can.." I don't think I really need to push that point home any further..

Ice Cube and the White Sox fitted with NWA also comes to mind.. 

Either way, teams choosing to incorporate a predominantly black or navy cap into their rotation is a smart marketing move, particularly if selling more hats is a goal..

 

 

The point is when rappers rap about "fitteds", they don't necessarily mean authentic fitteds. They don't care about it being on-field or not. They're all 5950's.

 

People who want authentic gear don't care about it not matching their outfits. That goes for fans or rappers. Rappers who rock authentic gear specifically will match their clothes with that authentic gear. They don't care about it being too "flashy".

 

I'm still trying to figure out who this segment of consumers are who cares about the gear they wear being authentic, but won't buy it if it's "too flashy". There can't be that many.

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3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

 

Navy blue is a very popular color for caps, because it matches everything you buy at the Gap.  So many teams that have blue as a secondary color will make that the road cap so they can have navy blue “Authentics” for sale.

 

And for teams like the A’s and Orioles, they’re hedging their bets with a less garish version of the home cap.  White guys in their 40s don’t always want to wear something so flashy with their chinos.  Props to the teams for wanting a good brim or white front panel, but those are the kind of things that have scared merchandise directors for a long time.  So we get a solid-green and mostly-black for safety. 

 

It is 100% about merchandising. 

 

Totally! Even for me, I much prefer having an authentic cap and I wear the navy Block C (before the new home cap was around) and a black Ohio State cap (even though there are plenty of scarlet options). It's a shame though given just how good many of the daring, more colorful looks are on the field. And even as I argue in favor of them, it somehow feels wrong to me for a team to have a bright bill on a road cap.

 

There's a big difference between what I'd wear to a game and what I'd wear with a normal outfit.

 

2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Some grey looks are my favourite in their respective sets 🤷‍♂️

 

Off topic a bit but care to share? There are certainly some grays that are quite well done, but I'm not sure if any are my personal favorite in their respective sets. Maybe the Yankees? But I'm a pinstripe hating bastard.

 

Anybody got an ETA on the new Padres look btw? 

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From the 2019 MLB Rulebook

 

3.03 Player Uniforms (a) All players on a team shall wear uniforms identical in color, trim and style, and all players’ uniforms shall include minimal six-inch numbers on their backs. (b) Any part of an undershirt exposed to view shall be of a uniform solid color for all players on a team. Any player other than the pitcher may have numbers, and /or letters, insignia attached to the sleeve of the undershirt. (c) No player whose uniform does not conform to that of his teammates shall be permitted to participate in a game. (d) A league may provide that each team shall wear a distinctive uniform at all times, or that each team shall have two sets of uniforms, white for home games and a different color for road games. (e) Sleeve lengths may vary for individual players, but the sleeves of each individual player shall be approximately the same length, and no player shall wear ragged, frayed or slit sleeves. (f ) No player shall attach to his uniform tape or other material of a different color from his uniform. (g) No part of the uniform shall include a pattern that imitates or suggests the shape of a baseball. (h) Glass buttons and polished metal shall not be used on a uniform. (i) No player shall attach anything to the heel or toe of his shoe other than the ordinary shoe plate or toe plate. Shoes with pointed spikes similar to golf or track shoes shall not be worn. ( j) No part of the uniform shall include patches or designs relating to commercial advertisements. (k) A league may provide that the uniforms of its member teams include the names of its players on their backs. Any name other than the last name of the player must be approved by the League President. If adopted, all uniforms for a team must have the names of its players.

 

Nothing in there requires grey pants, let alone grey road uniforms.

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3 hours ago, daveindc said:

Fitteds are one thing, authentic gear is another. New Era fashion fitteds having many different color options is how they became popular in the first place:

Image result for jay z fitted cap

Forget about the “fashion” hat...my grandpa was rockin’ the sweatpants tucked under the white tube socks look LONG before this!

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4 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

Off topic a bit but care to share? There are certainly some grays that are quite well done, but I'm not sure if any are my personal favorite in their respective sets. Maybe the Yankees? But I'm a pinstripe hating bastard.

 

Anybody got an ETA on the new Padres look btw? 

The White Sox' greys are one of my favourite uniforms in baseball. 

I would also say the Mets' greys are my favourites of theirs. And that grey road Giants uniform with the SF monogram is my favourite uniform they ever wore. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WavePunter said:

You can't say fitteds and authentics are different things when authentics are, in fact, fitteds.. yes, they make fashion fitteds, but I was specifically referring to official on-field New Era 5950's, and their popularity.. I can find photos of Jay-Z in an official NY fitted as easily as you can find one of a fashion fitted.. I mean, he literally has a hit song that contains the lyrics "I made the Yankees hat more famous than a Yankee can.." I don't think I really need to push that point home any further..

Ice Cube and the White Sox fitted with NWA also comes to mind.. 

Either way, teams choosing to incorporate a predominantly black or navy cap into their rotation is a smart marketing move, particularly if selling more hats is a goal..

The lyric you are quoting doesn’t specify an authentic cap, just any cap with the NY logo

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12 hours ago, dont care said:

The lyric you are quoting doesn’t specify an authentic cap, just any cap with the NY logo

He said he made it more famous than a Yankee can - which would suggest he's referring to the same one a Yankee would wear.. I feel like that's pretty obvious

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13 hours ago, daveindc said:

 

 

The point is when rappers rap about "fitteds", they don't necessarily mean authentic fitteds. They don't care about it being on-field or not. They're all 5950's.

 

People who want authentic gear don't care about it not matching their outfits. That goes for fans or rappers. Rappers who rock authentic gear specifically will match their clothes with that authentic gear. They don't care about it being too "flashy".

 

I'm still trying to figure out who this segment of consumers are who cares about the gear they wear being authentic, but won't buy it if it's "too flashy". There can't be that many.

While rappers may generally be referring to the entire scope of 5959's when using the term "fitteds", I think it goes without saying that the official team caps are the gold standard of that line.. sure, rappers may be seen with the occasional fashion cap, or even a nice standard team logo cap from the NBA or NFL, but again, the official MLB team caps are historically the standard - if for no other reason than to "rep" their hometown.. 

 

Also, that segment of consumers doesn't particularly need to exist at all, as long as we have the more universal (usually navy or black) options available.. with boring standard options like the Braves' and Indians' all-navy caps, people don't have to address the "too flashy" issue, since non-flashy authentics exist for them to choose from..

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