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MLB Changes 2020

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Wasn't the white hat already the late '90s equivalent of the late '70s pillbox hat trend? The Dodgers, Mets, Reds -- seems like a couple others I'm missing. Apologies, the late '90s were a blur for me. 

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41 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

Wasn't the white hat already the late '90s equivalent of the late '70s pillbox hat trend? The Dodgers, Mets, Reds -- seems like a couple others I'm missing. Apologies, the late '90s were a blur for me. 

Boston had one as well I think.

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13 hours ago, flyersfan said:

Playing devil's advocate, extra revenue might do the sport some good, players could actually get their pay and would play.


The revenue from the ads is not going to go to pay the players, the revenue from the ads is not going to lower ticket prices, the revenue from the ads is not going to make a hot dog at the ballpark any cheaper.

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On 6/18/2020 at 1:45 PM, guest23 said:

 

This is late-stage capitalism in a nutshell. Pro sports franchises in the US are some of the last businesses to be infected by the disease of extracting profit from every single asset on the balance sheet. Franchises have typically been owned by the very wealthy but for almost a century they were viewed as trophies and membership in an elite club used to show off. When you apply the same set of financial metrics that investment bankers use for industrial sectors to sports this is what you get. Combine this mindset with heavily leveraged purchases (McCourt et al) the franchises are now forced into a profit motive above all else just to satisfy their creditors. A good comparison is the financialization of the casino/gaming industry, it went from being a cash cow; internally financed and privately held independent businesses to a couple of highly leveraged, publicly traded conglomerates that now charge for every single service that used to be comped.

I despised George Steinbrenner, and I still might. But say what you want about him- he wanted to win baseball games. He wasn't going to penny pinch because you might extract more profit by selling off all your players for a "window" a few years later. 

 

I often think of owners with popular teams who realize that they don't have to actually win to sell tickets - teams like the Maple Leafs and Browns come to mind. MLB right now is what happens when the entire league has that mindset. 

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It's all a negotiating tactic. By bringing it up prior to imposing an agreement, it now becomes a bargaining chip in the next round of negotiations. Just like the expanded playoffs and DH in both leagues.

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On 6/18/2020 at 4:45 PM, guest23 said:

A good comparison is the financialization of the casino/gaming industry, it went from being a cash cow; internally financed and privately held independent businesses to a couple of highly leveraged, publicly traded conglomerates that now charge for every single service that used to be comped.

 

One of the biggest companies isn't highly leveraged... 

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MGM/mgm-resorts/debt-equity-ratio

 

https://blog.hubspot.com/sales/debt-equity-ratio#:~:text=A good debt to equity ratio is around 1 to,can be greater than 2.

 

 

 

Every major European league benefits from ads on jerseys, so I'm not sure a system that works and exists would actually stop teams from putting ads on jerseys. 

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3 hours ago, schlim said:


The revenue from the ads is not going to go to pay the players, the revenue from the ads is not going to lower ticket prices, the revenue from the ads is not going to make a hot dog at the ballpark any cheaper.

 

This is exactly right. Ads on jerseys are for the sole benefit of the owners. That's it.

 

I'm not in commercial real estate, but I've seen plenty of long-term community-owned businesses in my city booted out of storefronts for landlords in search of banks, drug stores, or other chains that can pay greatly inflated rents compared to what they had been getting. Often, those storefronts remain empty for months if not years. Jersey ads remind me of that; MLB owners would cut of their noses temporarily to spite their faces in the long-term with increased frustration and apathy to the sport of baseball.

 

MLB could have been the only thing going for a month now and they blew it because of greed. And if they actually start in late July, they'll be immediately eclipsed by the NBA. Nice work, a-holes.

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16 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

One of the biggest companies isn't highly leveraged... 

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MGM/mgm-resorts/debt-equity-ratio

 

https://blog.hubspot.com/sales/debt-equity-ratio#:~:text=A good debt to equity ratio is around 1 to,can be greater than 2.

 

 

 

Every major European league benefits from ads on jerseys, so I'm not sure a system that works and exists would actually stop teams from putting ads on jerseys. 

 

This is paywalled but I guess we can agree to disagree whether or not the gaming sector has a debt problem that has grown since the 00's: "MGM: Chasing Revenue To Support Rising Debt Service, A Tough Business Model" https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MGM/mgm-resorts/debt-equity-ratio

 

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2 minutes ago, guest23 said:

 

This is paywalled but I guess we can agree to disagree whether or not the gaming sector has a debt problem that has grown since the 00's: "MGM: Chasing Revenue To Support Rising Debt Service, A Tough Business Model" https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MGM/mgm-resorts/debt-equity-ratio

 

 

The page shows MGM's debt-to-equity ratio has been less than 2 for nine years (Caesars and Wynn are at least 5; smaller casino companies are often less than 1), and is actually on a downward trend. 

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3 hours ago, TBGKon said:

Boston had one as well I think.

 

They did.

 

Personally, I've always liked this one, although IIRC that might have been a light cream color and not white.

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30 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

This is exactly right. Ads on jerseys are for the sole benefit of the owners. That's it.

 

I'm not in commercial real estate, but I've seen plenty of long-term community-owned businesses in my city booted out of storefronts for landlords in search of banks, drug stores, or other chains that can pay greatly inflated rents compared to what they had been getting. Often, those storefronts remain empty for months if not years. Jersey ads remind me of that; MLB owners would cut of their noses temporarily to spite their faces in the long-term with increased frustration and apathy to the sport of baseball.

 

MLB could have been the only thing going for a month now and they blew it because of greed. And if they actually start in late July, they'll be immediately eclipsed by the NBA. Nice work, a-holes.

Among some people. Frankly, I think MLB is more likely to be eclipsed by the NFL at that point, whether it's training camp or pre-season games. The NFL is the big kid on the block.

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1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I'm not in commercial real estate, but I've seen plenty of long-term community-owned businesses in my city booted out of storefronts for landlords in search of banks, drug stores, or other chains that can pay greatly inflated rents compared to what they had been getting. Often, those storefronts remain empty for months if not years.

 

Commercial real estate investors who kick businesses out in search of potential large stores that never come... aren't in commercial real estate very long. Usually the smaller stores are kicked out when new bigger businessses are committed to the space. If the bigger companies can afford the new higher rent...why aren't they moving in? If these places are empty for years...and the rents are coming down...then the management company is incompetent.  

 

Do you have any examples of streets or businesses that were kicked out due to higher rents? Were there any other reasons why small businesses were kicked out? 

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1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

 

One of the biggest companies isn't highly leveraged... 

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MGM/mgm-resorts/debt-equity-ratio

 

https://blog.hubspot.com/sales/debt-equity-ratio#:~:text=A good debt to equity ratio is around 1 to,can be greater than 2.

 

 

 

Every major European league benefits from ads on jerseys, so I'm not sure a system that works and exists would actually stop teams from putting ads on jerseys. 

European leagues are separate from the teams in them. You can argue whether or not the teams actually need them but the financial situation from a team which exists independently versus a MLB team in a controlled cartel of MLB franchises are completely different. 

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35 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Commercial real estate investors who kick people out in search of potential large stores that never come aren't in commercial real estate very long. Usually the smaller stores are kicked out when new bigger businessses are committed to the space. If the bigger companies can afford the new higher rent...why aren't they moving in? If these places are empty for years...and the rents are coming down...then the management company is incompetent.  

 

Do you have any examples of streets or businesses that were kicked out due to higher rents? Were there any other reasons why small businesses were kicked out? 

 

I do. Almost all of the major commercial areas in the Santa Monica/Venice Beach area that were once populated by local business have been taken over by national chains/brands and killed the character that made them so popular. This phenomenon is pretty well documented all over the country where national investors with access to cheap credit have bought up large swaths of desirable commercial real estate and jacked up rent for existing tenants or just forcing them out. 

 

Also you cherry picking one data point about one company's DTE does not negate the fact that access to cheap credit orchestrated by the federal reserve has changed many consumer facing industries for the worst. Going back to my Vegas/gaming anecdote just look at the introduction of resort fees and elimination of comped parking as a cheapening of the overall experience in a never ending quest to monetize any amenity they can.

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Wait, the Dodgers had one? All I remember of that era was the silver logo and brim variation for them. Boston’s white hat got worn like three times maybe.

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2 hours ago, guest23 said:

 

I do. Almost all of the major commercial areas in the Santa Monica/Venice Beach area that were once populated by local business have been taken over by national chains/brands and killed the character that made them so popular. This phenomenon is pretty well documented all over the country where national investors with access to cheap credit have bought up large swaths of desirable commercial real estate and jacked up rent for existing tenants or just forcing them out. 

 

Your example is no more specific than DG's Seattle example.

 

Are Santa Monica/Venice Beach not popular anymore? There are still a ton of local businesses in Santa Monica

 

Are these places in Santa Monica empty for years? What was the average increase in rent? Was rent the only factor?

 

Quote

Also you cherry picking one data point about one company's DTE does not negate the fact that access to cheap credit orchestrated by the federal reserve has changed many consumer facing industries for the worst. Going back to my Vegas/gaming anecdote just look at the introduction of resort fees and elimination of comped parking as a cheapening of the overall experience in a never ending quest to monetize any amenity they can.

 

 

That's happening everywhere though. Airlines will charge you for everything (except Southwest). Luxury hotels (where they used to charge you for internet until they hotel chains realized free internet brought in more people). 

 

Getting something comped in a casino usually means you already lost big on a hand or because the casino needs the traffic. You get free drinks in a casino because you just lost 100 bucks on blackjack. 

 

The casinos that charge for everything are targeting a high-end demographic. The low-end casinos will comp you on far more things because they need customers in the door. Circus Circus isn't nickle and diming anyone. 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, guest23 said:

 

I do. Almost all of the major commercial areas in the Santa Monica/Venice Beach area that were once populated by local business have been taken over by national chains/brands and killed the character that made them so popular. This phenomenon is pretty well documented all over the country where national investors with access to cheap credit have bought up large swaths of desirable commercial real estate and jacked up rent for existing tenants or just forcing them out. 

 

Also you cherry picking one data point about one company's DTE does not negate the fact that access to cheap credit orchestrated by the federal reserve has changed many consumer facing industries for the worst. Going back to my Vegas/gaming anecdote just look at the introduction of resort fees and elimination of comped parking as a cheapening of the overall experience in a never ending quest to monetize any amenity they can.

I think anyone in New York will tell you about the proliferation of Chase Banks in what used to be independently owned storefronts, because hey, Chase Bank can pay more. 

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White Dodgers cap was only for batting practice, worn in 1999.

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1 hour ago, fbjim said:

I think anyone in New York will tell you about the proliferation of Chase Banks in what used to be independently owned storefronts, because hey, Chase Bank can pay more. 

 

My point is those storefronts don't stay empty for years before Chase moves in...and I'm sure Starbucks was the same way. 

 

If you go to Florida beach towns you'll realize the old local companies are there on the old roads, but the strorefronts all need to be updated. A lot of dingy strip malls in Florida, even if the businesses are getting by. 

 

 

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