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MLB Changes 2020

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2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Then argue against those specifically.  You can't extrapolate that out to an argument against a color change in general.

Which is why I quoted the post that cited… those specifically.

 

I quoted you on the basis that navy and red do “feel right to Clevelanders.”

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1 minute ago, crashcarson15 said:

I quoted you on the basis that navy and red do “feel right to Clevelanders.”

 

Then you'll need to provide some basis for the assertion.  Because your anecdotal data is not any better than mine, which says there's no strong opposition to the possibility of a change.

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I think the navy and red could be kept with cream making it a classy and retro aesthetic for a historic team with a new name. Funnily enough, the Spokane Indians are a pretty good example of this and I think taking cues from their usage of color would do Cleveland wonders. I wouldn't be against making navy purple, but something is needed to differentiate a quite bland identity from the rest of the league's many RWB teams.

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3 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Then you'll need to provide some basis for the assertion.  Because your anecdotal data is not any better than mine, which says there's no strong opposition to the possibility of a change.

Sorry, I’ll get right on sponsoring a 1,000-response phone poll to settle the issue scientifically, rather than suggesting fans might want their team to wear the same colors they have for their entire lives.

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34 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

It’s not anthracite or volt, but purple, turquoise or light green (all suggested in the post I quoted) have no place in the identity of a charter member of the American League.


This is a charter member of the American League:

 

spacer.png

 

But no, the color scheme of a team that spent four decades being entirely irrelevant and even longer shackled to an offensive caricature (and offensive name, I’d argue) is too sacred to change.

 

Yeah, Cleveland is a founding member of the AL. But they also spent most of their existence being irrelevant or being called out for being offensive. 
 

Unless they want an identity that emphasizes their age, get new colors. Heck, even navy/burgundy/creme or navy/burgundy/light blue are acceptable. 
 

30 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

We’ve been back and forth on this before; your desire to change the colors of the Cleveland franchise has come up independent of its name or logo (and you present it as such in your first ‘graph).
 

 

I get the reasons why you’d resist. But to me, it’s the most logical course of action.

 

Quote

Identities are, first and foremost, for the fans of the actual team. We don’t need to dress a baseball team in purple and orange just because Ted Turner put the Braves on national TV.


Maybe the fans would come around to purple and orange, or whatever new color scheme appears. Purple and orange isn’t even that ridiculous (Clemson, Phoenix Suns, etc.)!

 

39 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Well, they got rid of the logo, I think they're better off without it, and the name can be lived with if they throw some money around and keep spectators (dare to dream) from dressing offensively.

 

But we know they won’t, so getting rid of the team name is the better strategy.

 

Quote

 

With the Tribe, it's like, okay, they already did what you told them to do, and the fans who have gotten enough enjoyment from the last quarter-century or so of Indians baseball don't seem as eager to throw it all out for the creamsicle-and-pine-green Cleveland Spiders as much as outsiders want to impose it upon them.


So, be the Cleveland Block C’s forever? Look like a generic as all heck team from a movie? None of those sound like a good plan. 
 

Changing the name, and maybe changing the colors, is the best way to go about handling Cleveland AL. 

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10 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:


This is a charter member of the American League:

 

spacer.png

 

But no, the color scheme of a team that spent four decades being entirely irrelevant and even longer shackled to an offensive caricature (and offensive name, I’d argue) is too sacred to change.

 

Game, set, match. :lol: 

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8 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Game, set, match. :lol: 

I didn't think I'd have to point out to a Packers fan that green and yellow are much more traditional sports colors than purple or turquoise, but here we are?

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Just now, crashcarson15 said:

I didn't think I'd have to point out to a Packers fan that green and yellow are much more traditional sports colors than purple or turquoise, but here we are?


Turquoise started in the NFL fifty-five years ago. Purple started in the NFL and NBA nearly sixty and fifty years ago, respectively. 
 

They’re traditional now.

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10 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:


Turquoise started in the NFL fifty-five years ago. Purple started in the NFL and NBA nearly sixty and fifty years ago, respectively. 
 

They’re traditional now.

Was editing my last reply to Gothamite when this came in, but...

 

This is a silly thing to go back and forth on. We've done it before, I'm sure we'll do it again, we're not going to change each other's opinions.

 

My stance continues to be that Cleveland sports fans have the same right to want to see their team in its traditional color scheme as Boston or Minnesota or even Washington fans. The constant suggestion from fans of other teams that we're the ones that need to change, even independent of the name or logo, and the concept that we're just so wrong for pushing back is tiring. Being told why, actually, [new color scheme] is so great, not the one we've watched our club in for our whole lives. Nobody's out here telling Rutgers to change their colors because there's already enough red teams in the Big Ten, right?

 

Should the rebranded Cleveland baseball club try to forge its own, unique identity? Sure! But there's no reason to shove something down the throats of a fan base that's only known navy and red on the basis of league-wide color diversity.

 

It's clear you and Gothamite disagree, so I'm not really sure the point of carrying this on.

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If they change their name to the Spiders, they should change to royal and red to match better with Spider-Man. 
 

But I think the navy and red happen to represent a really old baseball team, rather than the Indians name and branding. I’d hope it stays no matter what happens to the name. 

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No one is pushing the Washington NFL team to change their colors (as far as I've seen), so what's the deal with wanting Cleveland to change? I don't like that many MLB teams wear navy and red or vice-versa, but as others have mentioned, Cleveland has precedent. 

 

That being said though, I have seen quite a few Cleveland Spiders concepts on this board over the years that have used brown and red (with a little bit of cream thrown in). They honestly look fantastic and if Cleveland is to change its color scheme, I hope it is red and brown. 

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I argued for the Indians switching to red and brown but Indians fans shot me down so I stopped. My new Indians hobbyhorse is midnight blue and dark red.

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1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

If “Indians” goes, I think it would be best for navy and red to go as well, tradition of failure be damned. It’s the best way to show that the franchise will have a fresh start.

 

I like the navy and red. Sue me.

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I apologize if I seem forceful. I know that fans have an attachment to the colors more than the name, but I think a “unique” new name requires new colors or even a new spin on traditional colors (light blue accents or swapping red for dark red/burgundy). Heck, my Indians concept used light blue accents!

 

aKxKLwD.png
 

Just a slight twist (add an accent color) and I think we’re good. 

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7 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

I like the navy and red. Sue me.

Same. Any animal mascot can work with whatever color teams wish to use. If the team changed colors, how long until Cleveland fans ask for blue and red back? Probably 2 minutes after the new logos leaked. 

 

 

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On 7/19/2020 at 10:04 PM, Gothamite said:


True.  Personally, I would prefer a new color scheme, but if navy and red feel right to Clevelanders, then they should stay. 
 

Were it up to me, I’d go with black and red for Cleveland.  Only the Reds use that color scheme, and the Spiders should use them in the opposite proportion, mostly black but with red as an accent. 

 

 

How about navy, black, with minimal red accent?  Probably too little contrast between navy and black.

 

I did love the Tampa shade of green. Might be cool for the Forest Citys. (Almost typed Forest ascites)

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12 hours ago, mjd77 said:

 

Didn't the Expos spend the last month or 2 of a season down there for home games one year?

Back in ‘03. 

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I think the insistence that every team in a 30-team league needs something close to a unique color scheme is a little silly. Even with the current Cleveland Generics brand slowly winning out, I’m still not seeing many scenarios where you’re gonna confuse them for Boston or Minnesota.

 

Navy and red is popular because it’s a classic color combo in the sport where classic aesthetics work particularly well. If anything I think that ubiquity gives Cleveland an out to change the name but not radically overhaul everything else; it’s not like those two colors on a baseball uniform are associated with the racist man first and foremost.

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Cleveland could always just switch their colors around, being red-dominant. Although, I do like the notion of Ohio having red vs. blue with Cincinnati in the mix.

 

I consider replacing the block C a win either way, anyway.

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On 7/19/2020 at 8:18 PM, Ark said:

The Orioles spring training cap

 

S53CD2a.jpg

 

kill it with fire GIF

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