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NHL changes 2019-20

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5 minutes ago, Morgo said:

 

The Orca isn't there to represent a Canuck.  No more than the Hub on Boston's logo is there to represent a Bruin.

Woosh. 

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13 minutes ago, Chromatic said:

Woosh. 

You are the one coming up with ridiculous false equivalencies 

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7 minutes ago, dont care said:

You are the one coming up with ridiculous false equivalencies 

I'm not. None of my hypothetical comparisons are false equivalencies. You are the one grasping at straws by saying an Orca represents the name Canuck because Canada touches water and Orcas live in water.

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I think I’ve figured out the overall issue between examples and the issues overall. One of the major reasons the Orca is disliked is, when introduced, it was a not-so-subtle nod to the then-ownership group. Of course with the poor management early on, there could be easy animosity developed over time. So now, despite the proper colors returning and a more toned down erosion of the logo remaining, the core purpose of choosing what they chose and their corporate-speak to justify their choice still remains. And for some fans, it’s more a “whatever” thing but for others, that lasting initial impression is still there.

 

As far as examples to help explain why The excuses given now are not as good as they seem, we more have to go into a hypothetical world than the real one because the examples being used so far have more historical legacies for their abstract design and lingering that may not have anything to do with the team nickname:

The closest example of a team nickname to “Canucks” would likely be “Yankees”. But let’s imagine for a brief moment that the Yankees were founded when the Canucks were and have had the same identity crisis as the Canucks. And at some point they introduce a logo for the Yankees that consisted of a pigeon, with its wings up stretched into a Y shape. And we are told that the Pigeon choice was because there are larger amounts of pigeons found in New York than in most other places. It’d be insane. Again, this is an EXTREME example of how it looks as an outsider watching the Orca War debate go back and forth. It both makes perfect sense as far as specific design choices with the art style but at the same time the original intent for their choice is part of the logo’s historical fact and it’s disgraceful at the same time. With the Orca there is no easy solution to help satisfy all sides 

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4 hours ago, Chromatic said:

I'm not. None of my hypothetical comparisons are false equivalencies. You are the one grasping at straws by saying an Orca represents the name Canuck because Canada touches water and Orcas live in water.

 

Literally no one is saying this.

 

Everyone is saying the orca represents Vancouver and the region.

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I think focusing on "Canucks" for the primary logo is ultimately the issue causing this circular debate, especially since ultimately multiple NHL teams don't really use logos pertaining to their actual team name as the main logo. Without the historical context, how does a "CH" represent "Canadiens" aside from sharing a letter, for example? What does a star wrapped with the Ohio state flag have to do with "Blue Jackets"? What does a spoked "B" have to do with "Bruins" aside from sharing a letter?

 

With the Habs and Bruins, we can at least say there's a historical reason they'll never change from those logos. If Boston outright dropped the Spoked B from their logos, the fans would probably go ballistic. And you can be damn sure every single person in Montréal would actually start to riot if the Canadiens ever changed from the CH. They've always been at their best in those logos.

 

I think the Orca's approaching that territory of being a logo associated the most with the Canucks' successful periods. It's a contest between the Orca and the Flying Skate, since they went to the Finals in both. The SiR is mostly associated with playoff futility in the 70's, and Johnny is not the optimal option as the primary logo as he stands. Unless you use the Vachon-lite logo as the primary, which I think would be an even worse idea, you'd need to totally redesign Johnny to make him into a suitable primary logo for a brand in 2019.

 

The Bruins' logo ties more into Boston then it does the actual team name, given Boston is often called "The Hub". And the Orca can similarly tie into Vancouver's deep economic ties to the Pacific Ocean, given it's a marine animal found in the Pacific Ocean.

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I dont know, I like the fact that the Canucks use an animal that doesnt really make perfect sense to a 5 year old. Its all representative and its art. I like the ambiguous nature of what the name means. Who cares if its not the most obvious thing related to Vancouver, its not a tourism company. I mean, so long as the Canucks dont use something like a kangaroo as a logo I think its fine. Canucks is an all incompassion term that signifies anything that wants to be connected with vancouver. An orca? Sure, its hardly a stretch.

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8 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

A Canuck is not an animal nor does it have anything to do with First Nations.


Just so you’re aware, at the bottom of page 81 you said,
 

“And how do you know Johnny Canuck is Caucasian? He could have been Native Canadian for all we know.”

 

So, does the term “Canuck“ represent First Nations/Native Canadians or not? You can’t claim it both ways to support your point.

 

Also, would you say a skate represents the name “Canucks?” A hockey rink? Or is Johnny the only proper representation of the name?

 

I’ll take my answer off the air.

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I think the most confusing part about the Orca logo is the fact that most people outside of Canada don't really know what a Canuck is. So if they see an orca logo connected to a team with the name "Canucks" people start to think that that's what it means. It isn't the same as the Habs CH logo, or Boston's hub logo, because those aren't tangible things, unlike an orca. Sure they're Canadian, but they're not exclusively Canadian. And I mean Canadians say weird things compared to Americans, right? For all the average fan knows, Canuck could be another name for an orca, like how a dart is a cigarette or this letter, "Z" is pronounced "zed" up there. 

 

On top of all that, the Orca was clearly a corporate logo, and not that great of one. I am ok with what they have now, however, it adds a few extra colors that the Canucks don't need. A tweaked logo would be the best way to go, because at this point, the orca represents the Canucks...

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6 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

I think the most confusing part about the Orca logo is the fact that most people outside of Canada don't really know what a Canuck is.

 

But they can easily look it up, right?

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2 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

But they can easily look it up, right?

But do they care enough?

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6 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

But do they care enough?

 

Probably, since they likely know an orca is not a Canuck, so they say "Hey Google/Alexa, what is a Canuck?"

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1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:


Just so you’re aware, at the bottom of page 81 you said,
 

“And how do you know Johnny Canuck is Caucasian? He could have been Native Canadian for all we know.”

 

So, does the term “Canuck“ represent First Nations/Native Canadians or not? You can’t claim it both ways to support your point.

 

Also, would you say a skate represents the name “Canucks?” A hockey rink? Or is Johnny the only proper representation of the name?

 

I’ll take my answer off the air.

 

Johnny Canuck doesn't represent any racial demographic. Johnny Canuck is the personification of Canada. My point in my comment on page 81 was in response to DastardlyRidleylash's race card playing comment about JC being "white". And no matter what skin tone JC is, he's whom the Canucks are named after.

 

As for the other two Canucks logos...very simple...the Canucks are a hockey club. The Stick in Rink are two hockey elements coming together to form a C for Canucks - altogether Canucks Hockey Club in Vancouver, BC colours of blue, green and white. The Speeding Skate on a circle(obviously a puck) symbolizes the speed of hockey. A Canuck is also a nickname for a Canadian like a Yankee is to an American and hockey is Canada's most popular sport.

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10 hours ago, dont care said:

Now you are just being ridiculous. They aren’t names the Louisianites  or the new englanders like the canucks. And orcas are commonly found in and around the waters or Vancouver. They are very much a Canadian animal. 

 

Orcas are hardly a Canadian animal. They're more associated with the West Coast. Considering they're the only Canadian franchise to have an animal logo, they could've gone with a beaver, polar bear, moose, elk, or goose if they wanted something more symbolic of the entire country. 

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1 hour ago, chcarlson23 said:

I think the most confusing part about the Orca logo is the fact that most people outside of Canada don't really know what a Canuck is. So if they see an orca logo connected to a team with the name "Canucks" people start to think that that's what it means. It isn't the same as the Habs CH logo, or Boston's hub logo, because those aren't tangible things, unlike an orca. Sure they're Canadian, but they're not exclusively Canadian. And I mean Canadians say weird things compared to Americans, right? For all the average fan knows, Canuck could be another name for an orca, like how a dart is a cigarette or this letter, "Z" is pronounced "zed" up there. 

 

On top of all that, the Orca was clearly a corporate logo, and not that great of one. I am ok with what they have now, however, it adds a few extra colors that the Canucks don't need. A tweaked logo would be the best way to go, because at this point, the orca represents the Canucks...

 

34 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

But they can easily look it up, right?

 

Instead of telling people to look up the meaning of "Canuck", why not show it to them on a non-Orca Canucks jersey that feature Johnny Canuck as the primary crest or with either the Stick in Rink or the Skate with JC on the shoulders??

 

For example, one wears his/her Canucks jersey on the road in an Eastern U.S. city like New York City, Philadelphia or Pittsburgh and is approached by fans of the host teams with questions like "What's a Canuck?" "What the heck is a Canuck?!" That Canucks fan can just point to the JC logo on the jersey and proudly introduce our iconic lumberjack to those bewildered fans. Back in '07 when the original Orca jerseys came out, fans at the NHL Draft in Pittsburgh chanted "FREE WILLY! FREE WILLY!" when Canucks first round pick Brad Ference put on the new Orca jersey. As a longtime Canucks fan, that was embarrassing to listen to.

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19 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

Orcas are hardly a Canadian animal. They're more associated with the West Coast. Considering they're the only Canadian franchise to have an animal logo, they could've gone with a beaver, polar bear, moose, elk, or goose if they wanted something more symbolic of the entire country. 

Well Vancouver is on the west coast of Canada right, so picking an animal from that region makes sense right?

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8 minutes ago, VancouverFan69 said:

 

 

Instead of telling people to look up the meaning of "Canuck", why not show it to them on a non-Orca Canucks jersey that feature Johnny Canuck as the primary crest or with either the Stick in Rink or the Skate with JC on the shoulders??

 

For example, one wears his/her Canucks jersey on the road in an Eastern U.S. city like New York City, Philadelphia or Pittsburgh and is approached by fans of the host teams with questions like "What's a Canuck?" "What the heck is a Canuck?!" That Canucks fan can just point to the JC logo on the jersey and proudly introduce our iconic lumberjack to those bewildered fans. Back in '07 when the original Orca jerseys came out, fans at the NHL Draft in Pittsburgh chanted "FREE WILLY! FREE WILLY!" when Canucks first round pick Brad Ference put on the new Orca jersey. As a longtime Canucks fan, that was embarrassing to listen to.

 

A Canuck is a white lumberjack?

 

And the original Orca jerseys were introduced in '07?  You sure about that? And a few Pittsburgh fans trolling the logo upset you?

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10 minutes ago, VancouverFan69 said:

 

 

Instead of telling people to look up the meaning of "Canuck", why not show it to them on a non-Orca Canucks jersey that feature Johnny Canuck as the primary crest or with either the Stick in Rink or the Skate with JC on the shoulders??

 

For example, one wears his/her Canucks jersey on the road in an Eastern U.S. city like New York City, Philadelphia or Pittsburgh and is approached by fans of the host teams with questions like "What's a Canuck?" "What the heck is a Canuck?!" That Canucks fan can just point to the JC logo on the jersey and proudly introduce our iconic lumberjack to those bewildered fans. Back in '07 when the original Orca jerseys came out, fans at the NHL Draft in Pittsburgh chanted "FREE WILLY! FREE WILLY!" when Canucks first round pick Brad Ference put on the new Orca jersey. As a longtime Canucks fan, that was embarrassing to listen to.

But a Canuck isn’t a lumberjack, a Canuck is a Canadian. And since there is no way to represent all Canadians with a single depiction it makes most sense to use a “C” for Canuck and using something local in a art style used commonly by the region to represent Vancouver.

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9 minutes ago, dont care said:

Well Vancouver is on the west coast of Canada right, so picking an animal from that region makes sense right?

 

I mean it would make more sense if the team was called the Vancouver Islanders or British Columbians. New York City has a lot more pigeons than bald eagles, but a bald eagle logo would fit the Yankees name better than a pigeon logo. 

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