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Rite of Spring 2019: The Chase for the Stanley Cup

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On 5/6/2019 at 10:09 PM, Bucfan56 said:

The Sharks are ABSOLUTELY losing game 7. 5-0. 

 

I HATE this stupid hockey team. 

I think you've been just posting variations of this same sentiment all RoS '19.

 

8 hours ago, The Six said:

Hopefully the Blues can come through and win it all this year. It'd be great to see that franchise finally win one, and the city of St. Louis deserves a Cup.

I don't know that I'd go so far as "deserve." As soon as my teams are out, drought protocol goes into effect. I pull for the teams that the Cup would likely mean the most to (those who have gone longest without). So regardless, I'm pulling for the West. Blues-Sharks is a WCF I'd be happy to see, but I honestly feel like the Blues have the better pieces to actually get it done.

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16 minutes ago, speedy said:

 

 I've been in your shoes for 24 years before they won the Cup in 2011. Watching Ray Bourque lift the cup in burgundy. First round exits year after year, losing to the 8 seed twice, blowing a 3-0 series lead and a 3-0 lead in a game 7. There has been far more lows than your Blue Jackets have ever really come close to feeling.

 

This is PEAK Boston fandom here.

 

What feels better? The winning? Or the complaining about losing? You only get to choose one.

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The feeling of crippling incompetence, complete irrelevance and a belief that your team will never ever have a chance is a hell of a lot worse than any playoff exit can be, IMO.

 

The last three years have ended in really :censored:ty ways for the Jackets, but I’d gladly take them any day over the first 15 years of this team’s existence. The same is true for the last three Indians teams — blowing a 3-1 lead in the World Series and losing Game 7 in extras in 2016; blowing a 2-0 ALDS lead in 2017; getting embarrassingly swept out in 2018 — and 2012 or 2018 Notre Dame football.

 

All of it, the brutal losses, beat the absolute :censored: out of irrelevant nothingness, which is what the Jackets were for pretty much my entire life.

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54 minutes ago, speedy said:

 

I understand exactly how that looks. It's the same thing as saying it's a travesty the Lightning choke on a glass of water every year. It's a reasonable expectation based on talent. The Bruins should have multiple championships, they don't. Pointing that out is a problem because they have 1?

 

Yes. Compared to fans of the following teams: Leafs, Blues, Sabres, Canucks, Senators, Panthers, Sharks, Jets etc etc we'd all take that one so it's a little like griping that you won a Hyundai within earshot of someone who doesn't have a car. 

 

 

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Stop it. I'm not a Patriots fan, I'm not a Celtics fan, I'm a Bruins fan. I've been in your shoes for 24 years before they won the Cup in 2011. Watching Ray Bourque lift the cup in burgundy. First round exits year after year, losing to the 8 seed twice, blowing a 3-0 series lead and a 3-0 lead in a game 7. There has been far more lows than your Blue Jackets have ever really come close to feeling. Don't think I take 2011 for granted, and also don't think just because 2011 happened I'm not allowed to lament on what could have been a dynasty if the puck fell the right way just a few more times. 


Everybody loses. Not everybody gets to win, though. You did. You can lament not getting a dynasty all you want, but I'm telling you when you have the one it's not a good look. 

 

Also a cup, another trip to the finals, plus the cup they'll get this year feels about right for this decade of Bruins hockey. Expecting more than that with the competition in the East over that period of time feels like a stretch. 

 

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Say the Blue Jackets win a cup in 2020, you're going to want one in 2021, 2022, 2023, and so on. By 2029 when the Blue Jackets go back to losing in the first round all the time you're not going to be thrilled.

 

Obviously I want them win the cup every year, but I'm realistic about how sports works, particularly the NHL, and I know that winning a cup even when the team is great is a statistical unlikelihood and I'd feel good that I got to witness at least one. 

 

 

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This is going to turn into a beating your head against a wall discussion. You need to stop with the spoiled Boston talk with every argument. I get it. Doesn't apply here. Rask, has melted in big time moments more times than he's shined. That's the problem. That's not unreasonable expectations because blah blah, it's a fact. With his play right now (stole TOR-CBJ series') he's making me eat crow, and that's fine - I love it.


and my point all along and always has been that you could have way worse goaltenders than Tuukka Rask. 

 

 

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My team the Coyotes is not in it so for me its: Go Blues!

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The only thing I'll say with regard to the idea of "more disappointments than achievements" (for lack of better phrase) is that, in a given postseason, there's a 93.75% chance your team isn't going to win the Stanley Cup. In school, that's an A. That's how likely it is that, in some form, your postseason is going to end in disappointment. Yes, the odds should be weighted on an individual team basis, but that's really splitting hairs and beside the point in any case.

 

Point is, we can all point back on missed opportunities here and there. My team has been in the ECF four times this decade, and in games where they've had a win-and-advance opportunity, they're 1-6 in those games. The one win was wonderful. The other six games completely sucked. Frankly, I don't think it's a stretch to think the Lightning were a couple wins away from a couple of Cups in this decade, and I do think about that sometimes because the opportunities were there, but for the one true moment of peak happiness I've had a chance to experience (which I'm thankful that I was old enough to watch and remember) in 2004, there's been no fewer than five postseasons since that have followed that have ended in some form of disappointment, if not outright irritation (not counting a couple other playoff years where the Lightning simply were "just another team" with no chance of going anywhere). 

 

What I often hear is that it's those disappointments that make the eventual success, should it ever come, feel that much more enjoyable. Those of us who have seen it, even once, are more fortunate than an awfully large segment of the hockey community. There are Leafs and Habs fans(!) who are pushing 30 years old (and, obviously, older in Toronto's case) who've never seen their team win the Cup. Same with the Rangers, longer with the Islanders. The examples go on. Isolating the rest of Boston-area success from the Bruins, the fact does remain that this core has gotten the job done at least once, which is more than you can say for a few prominent "cores" around the league today. And will likely get it done again this year as well.

 

On a different note - I think this place can be a bit toxic, unintentionally, towards Boston fans because, for the most part, they're good people around here and I know I wouldn't enjoy having to read all the time about how much my team's fellow fans suck even if I know I'm not the one being targeted by those comments. I know, because I sure get tired on /r/soccer having to constantly hear Americans being bashed for reasons X, Y, and Z, with "American" more-or-less a pejorative catch-all for foreigners. That topic veers off in a different direction from there, but the point is understood; even if the idea is understood in some respects, you still kinda get tired of hearing about it. And I'm far from innocent on this, trust me; I'm the first person to accept blame for feeding anti-Boston propaganda because I do genuinely hate every sports team from that city. Ultimately, we can all probably do better. 

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Oh, Red Sox this, Patriots that, show me where these so-called terrible Bruins fans started acting like they were the ones who finally invented enjoying hockey games last Thursday. Patrice Bergeron is arguably the best of all time at his job, and Zdeno Chara is certainly on the list for his. And that's inferior to Everyone Shoot Lots Of Bad Shots? We did that crap last year, right down to the smug bandwagoners and everything.

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30 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Everybody loses. Not everybody gets to win, though. You did. You can lament not getting a dynasty all you want, but I'm telling you when you have the one it's not a good look. 

 

Also a cup, another trip to the finals, plus the cup they'll get this year feels about right for this decade of Bruins hockey. Expecting more than that with the competition in the East over that period of time feels like a stretch. 

 

You're right, not everybody wins. Spare me the Bill Simmons grace period stuff. Sports are all about what-ifs. Winning doesn't negate your ability to discuss what-ifs. I'm happy they won, I'd be happier if they won more - who wouldn't be?

 

36 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

and my point all along and always has been that you could have way worse goaltenders than Tuukka Rask. 

 

Yeah of course, and I've never said he's a bad goaltender. I've just maintained my lack of confidence in him has been built around prior performances - which he's changing this postseason.

 

 

1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

 

This is PEAK Boston fandom here.

 

What feels better? The winning? Or the complaining about losing? You only get to choose one.

 

Come on. Like Kramerica just said, Boston rents so much space in the collective boards head even when guys like @Brass and I have been nothing but cordial. I can't have any discussion without being vilified for wanting my team to win, which at the end of the day is what we all want. Where is the problem there? Because the Bruins won 8 years ago I'm not allowed to discuss the heartaches it took to get there? If your only contribution is to use the same tired stuff, there probably shouldn't be a contribution. At least @McCarthy is bringing some high heat.

 

 

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Bill Simmons doesn't even like Bruins fans; he's one of those Celtics nerds who thinks anyone at a hockey game must fill in forms with a crayon, don't even mention him here.

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Just now, the admiral said:

Bill Simmons doesn't even like Bruins fans; he's one of those Celtics nerds who thinks anyone at a hockey game must fill in forms with a crayon, don't even mention him here.

 

Listen, I'm not happy about having to bring up one of his stupid tropes either and I hate myself for it, but what's done is done.

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2 hours ago, speedy said:

You need to stop with the spoiled Boston talk with every argument. I get it. Doesn't apply here. Rask, has melted in big time moments more times than he's shined. That's the problem. That's not unreasonable expectations because blah blah, it's a fact. With his play right now (stole TOR-CBJ series') he's making me eat crow, and that's fine - I love it.

 

It 100% applies here. I don’t agree with most of what McCarthy is saying, and I think the emotions of losing are there a bit, but the Tuukka hating is absolutely Bruins fans being spoiled brats. 

 

All this Tuukka hating is 100% because Tim Thomas played great in the postseason one year. Look at every single statistical category, Tuukka is the best Bruins goaltender you’ve ever watched. Top 4 post-1940s Save percentage, Top 10 post-1940s GAA. In the playoffs? 6 career playoff shutouts, 2 shutouts in series clinching games, BOTH tied with Tim Thomas. And all of this was playing 65-75 games per season the past few years because our backups were :censored:. Tim Thomas started 59 games the year the bruins won the Cup. Maybe having your goaltender being completely gassed isn’t a great idea. Seems to be working this year. On top of this, have you seen the defenses in front of Rask the past few years? This season is the first semblance of even a decent defense he’s had since he became the full-time starter, and he’s still pretty been pretty great.

 

Finally, look back at 2011. Because again, you can say this is only about Rask, but it’s not. Tim Thomas has games in which he gave up five goals FOUR times in the Tampa Bay series, and numerous other 3+ goal games. If the Bruins literally lose one more game in any one of the series besides the Philly one, everyone is talking about how Tim Thomas choked away then cup. And that was with one of the best defenses of the past decade.

 

 

Sure, Tuukka has had some optically bad moments, but the hated for him is 100% arrogance based on the fact that  we as Boston sports fans have become so accustomed to winning.

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2 minutes ago, Lafarge said:

Finally, look back at 2011. Because again, you can say this is only about Rask, but it’s not. Tim Thomas has games in which he gave up five goals FOUR times in the Tampa Bay series, and numerous other 3+ goal games. If the Bruins literally lose one more game in any one of the series besides the Philly one, everyone is talking about how Tim Thomas choked away then cup. And that was with one of the best defenses of the past decade.

 

Game 2 was the difference in that series. I think five goals in Game 1 and Game 6, four goals in Game 4 to erase a 3-0 deficit (the fifth was an ENG), and in the other three Boston wins, Thomas was a brick wall (I'll always remember that incredible save he made against Steve Downie in Game 5). Game 2 was a game where Thomas was vulnerable as well, but the Lightning in response couldn't do anything to stop the Bruins either; five goals allowed in the second period of that game IIRC. Losing a game where you score five goals in the playoffs has a way of being a true back-breaker; it turned out to be the one loss the Lightning were unable to overcome. 

 

And the counter to that, also involving the Lightning, four years later also bore that to be true, because the Lightning beat the Rangers 6-5 in an ECF game in 2015, and ultimately won the series in 7 just like the Bruins did. Scoring five goals in a game is rare, especially in the playoffs. If you waste that, there's a good chance that's the game that sticks out as a sore thumb when you look back at it in future years.

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2 minutes ago, Lafarge said:

 

It 100% applies here. I don’t agree with most of what McCarthy is saying, and I think the emotions of losing are there a bit, but the Tuukka hating is absolutely Bruins fans being spoiled brats. 

 

All this Tuukka hating is 100% because Tim Thomas played great in the postseason one year. Look at every single statistical category, Tuukka is the best Bruins goaltender you’ve ever watched. Top 4 post-1940s Save percentage, Top 10 post-1940s GAA. In the playoffs? 6 career playoff shutouts, 2 shutouts in series clinching games, BOTH tied with Tim Thomas. And all of this was playing 65-75 games per season the past few years because our backups were :censored:. Tim Thomas started 59 games the year the bruins won the Cup. Maybe having your goaltender being completely gassed isn’t a great idea. Seems to be working this year. On top of this, have you seen the defenses in front of Rask the past few years? This season is the first semblance of even a decent defense he’s had since he became the full-time starter, and he’s still pretty been pretty great.

 

Finally, look back at 2011. Because again, you can say this is only about Rask, but it’s not. Tim Thomas has games in which he gave up five goals FOUR times in the Tampa Bay series, and numerous other 3+ goal games. If the Bruins literally lose one more game in any one of the series besides the Philly one, everyone is talking about how Tim Thomas choked away then cup. And that was with one of the best defenses of the past decade.

 

 

Sure, Tuukka has had some optically bad moments, but the hated for him is 100% arrogance based on the fact that  we as Boston sports fans have become so accustomed to winning.

 

In regards to Tim Thomas, I don't know many people who hold him in a very high regard. He's what you'd get if you went to Wal-Mart looking for a Dominick Hasek but they only had store brand. Sure he won the cup and that's amazing, but like you said - his style of play was beyond scary to watch.

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17 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

Game 2 was the difference in that series. I think five goals in Game 1 and Game 6, four goals in Game 4 to erase a 3-0 deficit (the fifth was an ENG), and in the other three Boston wins, Thomas was a brick wall (I'll always remember that incredible save he made against Steve Downie in Game 5). Game 2 was a game where Thomas was vulnerable as well, but the Lightning in response couldn't do anything to stop the Bruins either; five goals allowed in the second period of that game IIRC. Losing a game where you score five goals in the playoffs has a way of being a true back-breaker; it turned out to be the one loss the Lightning were unable to overcome. 

 

And the counter to that, also involving the Lightning, four years later also bore that to be true, because the Lightning beat the Rangers 6-5 in an ECF game in 2015, and ultimately won the series in 7 just like the Bruins did. Scoring five goals in a game is rare, especially in the playoffs. If you waste that, there's a good chance that's the game that sticks out as a sore thumb when you look back at it in future years.

 

Right, but I think that goes to my point regarding Rask. Thomas' performance in the 2011 playoffs was a legendary performance, but he was absolutely susceptible to the same horrifying lapses that Rask has. It's just that Thomas' lapses were hidden by a better supporting cast, and ultimately winning the Cup. If the Bruins had won in 2013, people would only remember Rask's Game 2 Finals shutout, or giving up two combined goals in 4 games against the Penguins, or his five wins in overtime. But they lost, so people remember the bad. Even if it's not from a place of malice, it's a heavy influence.

 

16 minutes ago, speedy said:

 

In regards to Tim Thomas, I don't know many people who hold him in a very high regard. He's what you'd get if you went to Wal-Mart looking for a Dominick Hasek but they only had store brand. Sure he won the cup and that's amazing, but like you said - his style of play was beyond scary to watch.

 

Oh, there is still plenty of love for Tim Thomas. Though from what I've seen, it's the either the people who like the fact that he was a "good old boy" or those who jumped on the bandwagon in 2010 who have little to no prior experience with him/ the Bruins' dark years, besides the Vezina and Cup year.

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1 hour ago, speedy said:

 

Come on. Like Kramerica just said, Boston rents so much space in the collective boards head even when guys like @Brass and I have been nothing but cordial. I can't have any discussion without being vilified for wanting my team to win, which at the end of the day is what we all want. Where is the problem there? Because the Bruins won 8 years ago I'm not allowed to discuss the heartaches it took to get there? If your only contribution is to use the same tired stuff, there probably shouldn't be a contribution. At least @McCarthy is bringing some high heat. 

 

 

Here's the list of my teams that have won:

 

- Syracuse Orange basketball (2003)

- Seattle Seahawks (kind of but only because I live here 2014)

- Seattle Sounders (2016)

 

That's it. I could bitch and moan about Fab Melo and Richard Sherman and Clint Dempsey, but what's the point? I got a title out of my teams in my lifetime and that's better than a lot of people. Look at Cleveland.

 

So no, if your team has won in recent memory -- after Ray Bourque went to Colorado -- no, you can't complain about Ray Borque. You get to be happy about the Stanley Cup or sad about a player who left your team before that Cup. Not both.

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I’d love to have to suffer with “only” one Leafs Cup in the past ten years.

 

@speedy @Brass you’re good guys and I know you have to put up with a lot of Boston hate, but come on. You’re not hard done by. Not compared to most of the league. 

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If having an 8-year championship drought is suffering, Then what the hell is not making the playoffs for 8 years or having a literal turd as an owner?

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I get how it's super easy to hate Boston, yeah we're pretty arrogant & unlikable (But to be fair, any city would be that way with the success Boston teams have had). All you can really do is accept it and enjoy the ride. Only thing I've ever really complained about is Super Bowl XLII, If it wasn't for the whole "Perfect season" thing & the divine intervention helmet catch, I could accept it like all the other losses. 

 

Some of my favorite match ups are when the they play teams that haven't had much success. Like the Dodgers, Canucks, Eagles, etc. I can be happy either way. If Boston, it's awesome, if they lose, sure it's disappointing, but at least it's to a team that hasn't made it to the top before. Good for them. 

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1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

So no, if your team has won in recent memory -- after Ray Bourque went to Colorado -- no, you can't complain about Ray Borque. You get to be happy about the Stanley Cup or sad about a player who left your team before that Cup. Not both.

 

That’s the one thing you fixated on huh. My point was it wasn’t always peaches and cream before 2011, that’s it. No bitching, just painting a picture for everyone on this board who has a hard on for hating everything Boston. I don’t care that Ray Bourque got traded 20 years later, but from 2001-2011 it sure wasn’t the greatest feeling.

 

57 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I’d love to have to suffer with “only” one Leafs Cup in the past ten years.

 

@speedy @Brass you’re good guys and I know you have to put up with a lot of Boston hate, but come on. You’re not hard done by. Not compared to most of the league. 

 

I don’t know how this turned into this, but I never said we’re hard pressed and I never said anything about suffering after the Cup. I simply tried to show that Bruins fans had plenty of suffering before hitting the jackpot. Of course every team has dealt with that one way or another, but we seem to be the only people who can never mention it without people going bananas. I know we’re lucky as fans here, but to get called out and respond and then have the entire board jump down your throat is pretty pathetic. 

 

54 minutes ago, NoE38 said:

If having an 8-year championship drought is suffering, Then what the hell is not making the playoffs for 8 years or having a literal turd as an owner?

 

No one said anything about suffering during the past 8 years. All I said was it doesn’t matter how long it’s been since the team has won (or hasn’t won), you want to see another, it’s natural.

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All this lamenting of the Bruins winning the Cup when the conference finals haven't even started yet... I dunno, seems a bit premature.

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