ProfessorBigShots

How is Arena Football not more popular?

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2 hours ago, CaliforniaGlowin said:

I really hope the Streets aren't one and done.  I love the branding and theme.  With a proper arena and marketing (street team?) and a proper website (Wix could do a better one), it could work.

 

You should have seen the trouble I had getting these people to take my money!

 

At the beginning of the season in April, I wanted to order some merchandise. But the team's online store was down; it would not become operational until well into the second half of the season.

 

So I called the team's offices, and left a few messages. (Nobody ever answers the phones, no matter which selection you choose at the menu.)

 

A couple of weeks later, someone called me back, and agreed to sell me a cap. I could just give my credit card information over the phone right there, this person said, and we could conclude the transaction.

 

Feeling lucky, I asked whether I could also buy a polo shirt of the type that I had seen on some of the team's staff. The team representative said that that would be possible, but that she would have to get back to me on the details. I said fine, but I would like to by the hat now. But the team representative said that we should do it all as one transaction, and promised to get back to me soon.

 

And then I heard nothing of substance for a couple of months. My e-mails and texts were answered in a purely perfunctory manner, with no information offered.

 

I finally took to tweeting the team's announcer Peter Schwartz, to see if he could help facilitate this transaction. Schwartz eventually tweeted me back to tell me that the team's online store was now up and running. This was in June.

 

So I placed my order for the cap that I had wanted since the beginning of the season, even though it was priced at an absurdly expensive price point of $30. There was no polo shirt on offer; but I decided to take a chance on ordering a bucket hat, despite that item's equally obscene price of $30.

 

After a few weeks of not receiving any notice of the items' shipping, I sent an e-mail to an address of someone in the team's sales office, an address which had been included as a cc in one of the useless e-mail responses I had received months earlier.

 

To my surprise, this person gave me a call. She apologised for the delay, and promised to ship my items immediately. She said she'd send me the tracking number as soon as she had it.

 

And then another couple of weeks went by, during which I received no tracking number. I called this person back to ask for an update. She apologised again, and said that, while she was out of town at that moment, she would see to it that the items were shipped as soon as she returned.

 

At that point, I said that, even though I had paid for shipping, I would be willing to come and pick the items up at the team's offices. The sales representative replied that that would not be possible, as the items were not at the team's offices, but we're being shipped from another location.

 

However, to her credit, she said that, in recognition of the very long delay, she could give me a rebate of $32. (Why 32 and not 30? I have no idea.) And she would also throw in a t-shirt. (Alas, the coveted polo shirt was still not available.)

 

So, in the last days of July, I finally received my New York Streets cap, bucket hat, and t-shirt. I had to laugh at the fact that it took nearly four months of effort in order to get them to accept my money in exchange for items that most normal people would consider garbage.

 

And I didn't get to wear these items out in public, and thereby give the team free promotion, until after the season was over.

 

Anyway, I have the items, which are attractive and well-made. So let's call that a victory. But the whole saga left me with the impression of an office dominated by chaos.

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17 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

You should have seen the trouble I had getting these people to take my money!

 

At the beginning of the season in April, I wanted to order some merchandise. But the team's online store was down; it would not become operational until well into the second half of the season.

 

So I called the team's offices, and left a few messages. (Nobody ever answers the phones, no matter which selection you choose at the menu.)

 

A couple of weeks later, someone called me back, and agreed to sell me a cap. I could just give my credit card information over the phone right there, this person said, and we could conclude the transaction.

 

Feeling lucky, I asked whether I could also buy a polo shirt of the type that I had seen on some of the team's staff. The team representative said that that would be possible, but that she would have to get back to me on the details. I said fine, but I would like to by the hat now. But the team representative said that we should do it all as one transaction, and promised to get back to me soon.

 

And then I heard nothing of substance for a couple of months. My e-mails and texts were answered in a purely perfunctory manner, with no information offered.

 

I finally took to tweeting the team's announcer Peter Schwartz, to see if he could help facilitate this transaction. Schwartz eventually tweeted me back to tell me that the team's online store was now up and running. This was in June.

 

So I placed my order for the cap that I had wanted since the beginning of the season, even though it was priced at an absurdly expensive price point of $30. There was no polo shirt on offer; but I decided to take a chance on ordering a bucket hat, despite that item's equally obscene price of $30.

 

After a few weeks of not receiving any notice of the items' shipping, I sent an e-mail to an address of someone in the team's sales office, an address which had been included as a cc in one of the useless e-mail responses I had received months earlier.

 

To my surprise, this person gave me a call. She apologised for the delay, and promised to ship my items immediately. She said she'd send me the tracking number as soon as she had it.

 

And then another couple of weeks went by, during which I received no tracking number. I called this person back to ask for an update. She apologised again, and said that, while she was out of town at that moment, she would see to it that the items were shipped as soon as she returned.

 

At that point, I said that, even though I had paid for shipping, I would be willing to come and pick the items up at the team's offices. The sales representative replied that that would not be possible, as the items were not at the team's offices, but we're being shipped from another location.

 

However, to her credit, she said that, in recognition of the very long delay, she could give me a rebate of $32. (Why 32 and not 30? I have no idea.) And she would also throw in a t-shirt. (Alas, the coveted polo shirt was still not available.)

 

So, in the last days of July, I finally received my New York Streets cap, bucket hat, and t-shirt. I had to laugh at the fact that it took nearly four months of effort in order to get them to accept my money in exchange for items that most normal people would consider garbage.

 

And I didn't get to wear these items out in public, and thereby give the team free promotion, until after the season was over.

 

Anyway, I have the items, which are attractive and well-made. So let's call that a victory. But the whole saga left me with the impression of an office dominated by chaos.

TLDR.

 

Short story: A small business cannot afford to create and pay to have someone hold merchandise inventory, so they order JIT (Just In Time). As a result, they only processed orders after a certain number was met, like shirts are generally ordered in a gross (gross = 144 items regardless of size). 

 

So few bought merchandise over months, thus the order took months to be received

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1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

TLDR.

 

JRSR. (Just right; should read.)

 

 

1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

Short story: A small business cannot afford to create and pay to have someone hold merchandise inventory, so they order JIT (Just In Time). As a result, they only processed orders after a certain number was met, like shirts are generally ordered in a gross (gross = 144 items regardless of size). 

 

So few bought merchandise over months, thus the order took months to be received

 

A good theory. But, in this case, the first person whom I spoke to actually had the hat on hand, and even texted me a picture of it sitting on a table in the office in late April. That person claimed that what was holding things up was the wait to have the polo shirt in stock (a wait that, incidentally, goes on to this day).

 

So, by asking for that polo shirt, I evidently committed the NAL equivalent of flying too close to the sun. If I hadn't brought that up, I might have had my hat in late April or early May.

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2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I finally took to tweeting the team's announcer Peter Schwartz, to see if he could help facilitate this transaction. Schwartz eventually tweeted me back to tell me that the team's online store was now up and running.

 

The same Peter Schwartz who announces Cosmos games? Does he work for every shaky, fly-by-night suburban New York team?

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8 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

JRSR. (Just right; should read.)

A good theory. But, in this case, the first person whom I spoke to actually had the hat on hand, and even texted me a picture of it sitting on a table in the office in late April. That person claimed that what was holding things up was the wait to have the polo shirt in stock (a wait that, incidentally, goes on to this day).

 

So, by asking for that polo shirt, I evidently committed the NAL equivalent of flying too close to the sun. If I hadn't brought that up, I might have had my hat in late April or early May.

So you expected "Amazon Prime" service from the jump from a Mom&Pop operation which had little to no money to begin with.  $hit was never in inventory,  You're an alt-football mark.

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

The same Peter Schwartz who announces Cosmos games? Does he work for every shaky, fly-by-night suburban New York team?

 

Schwartz is a hard-working and dedicated guy. He has had a long and distinguished career in broadcasting. He called the games of the New York Dragons on radio for the team's entire eight-year run, and his passion for the team was palpable. 

 

And I believe that Schwartz was instrumental in getting the Streets' games on MSG Network.

 

Though I can't imagine that the channel was all that pleased with what it got, as so many of the Streets' games turned out to be terrible, including the one that the Streets eventually won by forfeit, in which they were trailing 46-0 when the Carolina Cobras walked off. The deal was presumably a time-buy; so MSG Network made their money. But the calibre of programming was far below that channel's usual standard.

 

 

1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

So you expected "Amazon Prime" service from the jump from a Mom&Pop operation which had little to no money to begin with

 

I certainly did not expect next-day delivery. A couple of weeks would have been fine. 

 

 

1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

$hit was never in inventory, 

 

Well, on April 24 I received this text.

 

Streets-text.png

 

So I think I can be forgiven for taking the team representative at her word.

 

 

1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

You're an alt-football mark.

 

Perhaps. Clearly there's something wrong with me.

 

But, I wanted to do my part to contribute to the team. I don't enjoy attending games, and I really like hats; so this was my contribution (in addition to promoting their broadcasts to people whom I know).  I now feel content that I did my part.

 

And, most important, I got my Streets hats, which I can wear just as I wear my Dragons hats and my CityHawks hat.

 

And the bucket hat is unexpectedly cool-looking.

 

me-in-bucket-hat.png

 

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1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

(Schwartz) called the games of the New York Dragons on radio for the team's entire eight-year run,

 

As i said - all the sketchy fly-by-night suburban teams. 😛

 

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Well, on April 24 I received this text.

 

Streets-text.png

 

 

That only shows they had one in the office. Doesn’t mean they actually had any inventory for sale. 

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26 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

That only shows they had one in the office. Doesn’t mean they actually had any inventory for sale. 

 

I suppose that's true.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Gothamite said:
2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

(Schwartz) called the games of the New York Dragons on radio for the team's entire eight-year run,

 

As i said - all the sketchy fly-by-night suburban teams.

 

Hey, now! The Dragons may have played their home games out in the suburbs; but they were not sketchy.

 

This was when the Arena Football League was legit, before it voluntarily went out of business just to break the players' union. This was before the farce of single-entity; the teams were all separately owned, and were really competing.

 

The players were well-paid; and the star players made star money. As a result, the level of talent in the AFL in those days was outstanding — as anyone who tuned into NBC could see. 

 

The Dragons ran a first-class operation, as did many of the elite AFL teams of that period, such as the San Jose SaberCats, the Arizona Rattlers, the Colorado Crush, the Philadelphia Soul, the Tampa Bay Storm, and the Orlando Predators. That was pro football 

 

By contrast, the current AFL is extremely sketchy. It is a bare-bones single-entity operation that should be described as semi-professional, as no player can live on what the AFL pays.  

 

The new league bought the assets of the real AFL; and it claims the original league's history. But it is really a separate league, just as the later indoor soccer leagues that used the name "MISL" were distinct from the original MISL.

 

So please do not confuse the current pathetic state of arena/indoor football, in which the AFL is the top rung of a very shaky ladder, with the time when the real AFL was operating at a very high level and made a serious bid at becoming the no. 5 pro sports league in the country (a status that MLS has since nailed down).

 

Peter Schwartz works for a sketchy team nowadays; but when he was working for the Dragons he was in the big time.

 

 

2 hours ago, dfwabel said:

You're a mark

 

I'm stylin', bro!

 

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The Dragons weren't the Streets and the Streets are the current business.

 

Your paragraphs on the Dragons history don't matter. Each fail to draw folks and generate money. 

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Wow.  I'm glad I didn't buy anything.  I wanted to, but all I saw was a t-shirt with a mini logo for $30.  No thanks.  

 

I've been seeing people saying some NAL games get around 1000 fans.  Yea they've been around longer, but what are they doing right?

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1 hour ago, CaliforniaGlowin said:

I've been seeing people saying some NAL games get around 1000 fans.  Yea they've been around longer, but what are they doing right?

 

I'm not sure that only drawing crowds of 1000 fans qualifies as doing anything right.

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23 hours ago, dfwabel said:

TLDR.

 

Short story: A small business cannot afford to create and pay to have someone hold merchandise inventory, so they order JIT (Just In Time). As a result, they only processed orders after a certain number was met, like shirts are generally ordered in a gross (gross = 144 items regardless of size). 

 

So few bought merchandise over months, thus the order took months to be received

 

I made a Squadlocker account so people that want to order jackets, t-shirts and sweaters and such for our soccer team can order what they need. I feel like at a minimum there exists something out there that does a similar job for them and doesn't rely on enough people ordering the items for sale. 

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That hat and shirt reminds me: nothing about that gear says New York Streets Football.  A circle with NY means nothing except to those who know what it is, and people seeing it are not going to wonder what it is.  A lot of NFL gear says (team) FOOTBALL.  At least the shirts need to say that. 

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6 hours ago, CaliforniaGlowin said:

That hat and shirt reminds me: nothing about that gear says New York Streets Football.  A circle with NY means nothing except to those who know what it is, and people seeing it are not going to wonder what it is.  A lot of NFL gear says (team) FOOTBALL.  At least the shirts need to say that. 

 

No way. This logo is good because of its simplicity. And it is quite obviously a manhole cover.

 

This letter logo is far preferable to a wordy logo. It is the helmet logo; and it looks great on a cap, just as do the Giants' "ny" logo, the Bears' C logo, snd the Packers' G logo.

 

The Streets' manhole cover NY logo is most comparable to the Chiefs' arrowhead KC logo, which is often found by itself on a cap or a shirt.

 

Chiefs-shirt.png

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

No way. This logo is good because of its simplicity. And it is quite obviously a manhole cover.

 

This letter logo is far preferable to a wordy logo. It is the helmet logo; and it looks great on a cap, just as do the Giants' "ny" logo, the Bears' C logo, snd the Packers' G logo.

 

The Streets' manhole cover NY logo is most comparable to the Chiefs' arrowhead KC logo, which is often found by itself on a cap or a shirt.

 

Chiefs-shirt.png

 

 

Difference being most Americans probably can identify the Chiefs logo as the Chiefs logo while you're more likely to get a knowing reaction walking around with a shirt with say, this:

 

spacer.png

than you would with the New York Streets logo. Sans context, the Streets logo looks more like guerrila marketing for a new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie than it does a football logo.

Edited by Red Comet

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Yea, this is a new logo, not a logo that's been around for 60 years and has thousands of fans.  Big difference.  It would be fine if the NY logo was well known.  I ain't knockin the logo, but by itself nobody would know what it's for.

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1 hour ago, CaliforniaGlowin said:

Yea, this is a new logo, not a logo that's been around for 60 years and has thousands of fans.  Big difference.  It would be fine if the NY logo was well known.  I ain't knockin the logo, but by itself nobody would know what it's for.

 

I do understand that point; no one looking at the logo will know what it is.  But, going purely by aesthetics, I don't want a hat mucked up by a wordmark; I want a hat with the helmet logo only. 

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