2019 NBA Summer season

[AustinFromBoston]

35 minutes ago, Red Wolf said:

Morally wrong or "scummy" as you've put it in the past? No, I don't. I find it annoying as a fan, but I also hated when Hogan joined with the Outsiders to form the New World Order. If you have a solution that doesn't involve forcing players to suck it up and be unhappy just to satisfy you, I'd love to hear it.

 

The fact your only analogy comes from wrestling of all things speaks volumes. 

Also it’s not about satisfying me, it’s about satisfying everyone. Haven’t you heard of this thing called parity? It’s what makes sports fun to watch.

35 minutes ago, Red Wolf said:

We bring up the Celtics because you're a Celtics fan complaining about super teams despite your team starting this. LeBron left the Cavs because he couldn't get past the Celtics' super team in the playoffs. In retrospect the window was even smaller than we remember (because the passage of time is terrifying), but it felt like he was running his skull into a brick wall. He needed help and probably just followed KG's advice to get the hell out of there and win some rings.

 

Completely ignoring that Lebron made the finals the year before the Celtics won it. And the second they broke up was when he started his 8 year finals streak.

 

you are trying to compare a team of Pierce/Rondo/and KG to one of Lebron/AD/Kawhi. 

One had 3 top 10 players in the league.

the other has 3 of the top 10 players in the league. 

That’s why your Celtics excuse is ridiculous. 

They were never as absurdly broken or unfair as these more recent Superteams. 

Celtics May have “started” it, but Lebron and the Warriors are the ones that broke it. 

[Red Wolf]

1 minute ago, AustinFomBoston said:

The fact your only analogy comes from wrestling of all things speakers volumes. 

Also it’s not about satisfying me, it’s about satisfying everyone. Haven’t you heard of this thing called parity?

 

The fact that you're dismissing my analogy because it comes from wrestling speaks volumes. Wrestling is the truest form of art and I'll defend that no matter what. If you're against art then that's your problem. The Raptors beating a Klay-less and Durant-less Warriors is basically the same as Sting beating Hogan due to a false fast count at Starrcade 97. Granted that Adam Silver probably won't strip the Raptors of their title the way JJ Dillon did to Sting.

 

Ignoring my facetious wrestling comparisons, you haven't provided a way to satisfy the players while also satisfying literally every fan in the league. We're talking about the NBA, where over half the league makes the playoffs and still complaining about how we need to satisfy everyone. Maybe it's because not everybody will be satisfied. The Raptors fired the coach of the year the previous season because they weren't satisfied. This season? I think they were plenty satisfied. You know who wasn't satisfied? Literally every team located outside of Canada.

 

21 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

you are trying to compare a team of Pierce/Rondo/and KG to one of Lebron/AD/Kawhi. 

One had 3 top 10 players in the league.

the other has 3 of the top 10 players in the league. 

That’s why your Celtics excuse is ridiculous. 

They were never as absurdly broken or unfair as these more recent Superteams. 

Celtics May have “started” it, but Lebron and the Warriors are the ones that broke it. 

 

Pierce/Allen/KG are the classical Celtics big three, just a heads up. The fact that you're bringing up a fourth person on accident only serves to prove it was a super team. I am glad you're realizing that your team started this at least, but escalation is always the way of things. LeBron saw the Celtics' big three and realized he needed something to beat that. Kevin Durant ran into LeBron's big three and the Warriors and realized he needed that (and also to get the hell away from Westbrook). Do you expect teams and players to just decide that they're going to intentionally go for less just to make you happy?

[Sport]

20 hours ago, DG_Now said:

Not enough is being said about how a year after LeBron signed in the west, all of a sudden free agents are headed east. Weird how that didn't happen in the prior 15 years.

 

this was always my point when goobers would say "He doesn't have any competition in the east! so making it to the finals 8 straight years isn't an impressive accomplishment" Well, maybe there's a reason for that, ya doofus. 

[AustinFromBoston]

5 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

The fact that you're dismissing my analogy because it comes from wrestling speaks volumes. Wrestling is the truest form of art and I'll defend that no matter what. If you're against art then that's your problem. The Raptors beating a Klay-less and Durant-less Warriors is basically the same as Sting beating Hogan due to a false fast count at Starrcade 97. Granted that Adam Silver probably won't strip the Raptors of their title the way JJ Dillon did to Sting.

You’re comparing a fake (fixed) sport to a real one. Give me an example from MLB, NHL, or NFL. Oh wait, you can’t because they actually have parity, something you don’t seem to care about. 

 

5 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

Ignoring my facetious wrestling comparisons, you haven't provided a way to satisfy the players while also satisfying literally every fan in the league. We're talking about the NBA, where over half the league makes the playoffs and still complaining about how we need to satisfy everyone. Maybe it's because not everybody will be satisfied. The Raptors fired the coach of the year the previous season because they weren't satisfied. This season? I think they were plenty satisfied. You know who wasn't satisfied? Literally every team located outside of Canada.

 

Actually I think most people were satisfied considering it wasn’t another Warriors/Cavs super team that won.

But another ludicrously broken super team like Lebron, Kawhi, AD winning would definitely piss people off. 

5 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

Pierce/Allen/KG are the classical Celtics big three, just a heads up. The fact that you're bringing up a fourth person on accident only serves to prove it was a super team. I am glad you're realizing that your team started this at least, but escalation is always the way of things. LeBron saw the Celtics' big three and realized he needed something to beat that. Kevin Durant ran into LeBron's big three and the Warriors and realized he needed that (and also to get the hell away from Westbrook). Do you expect teams and players to just decide that they're going to intentionally go for less just to make you happy?

If they were such a “super team” than how come they had barely a fraction of the success that other super team did? Oh right, because as good as they were, they weren’t 3/5 top players joining 1 team like we have now with the Lakers. You’re completely ignoring the fact that for being a superteam, the Celtics were nowhere near as bad for the league as the Warriors, Cavs, and now Lakers. 

If you hated KD joining the Warriors, you should hate what the Lakers are doing, because both throw off any semblance of balance the league has.

as far as the players, why should they get near complete freedom in where they go? That only creates problems like this, where the top guys join 1 team and ruin any sort parity the league has. 

It’s not about making me happy, it’s about making fans happy. So their team can actually have a damn chance. 

Yeah we finally got a new team this year, but look what it took, Lebron leaving the entire East and Warriors being injured to hell, including losing KD. 

Did you really enjoy the Past few years where we knew we were getting yet another Warriors/Cavs Finals as soon as the season ended? Or did you prefer this past season where it was a complete tossup and the Raptors were actually a pleasant surprise?  

 

[Glover]

58 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

If they were such a “super team” than how come they had barely a fraction of the success that other super team did?

Because Lebron left to form an even better superteam in Miami, and they could never get past him. 

[OnWis97]

I'm not loving Kawhi to the Lakers.

 

That said, I still think the NBA is more wide open than in recent years.  In the last four years, I'd have taken Golden State over the field (admittedly, I'd only have been right two of the four, though one was due almost entirely to injury).

 

Right now?  The Field over the Lakers by a long-shot.  They have three of the top ten players, but can they fill out the rest of the roster well?  Or will they be relying almost entirely on three guys?  One injury just about does them in.

[AustinFromBoston]

26 minutes ago, selby56 said:

Because Lebron left to form an even better superteam in Miami, and they could never get past him. 

They lost to the Magic in 09 ECF.

 

Remind me me again whom the Cavs/Heat/Warriors lost to in the Conference Finals. 

The Celtics weren’t anywhere near as lopsidedly OP as those teams. They were still vulnerable, even in their own conference. 

Some “super team”.

[Red Wolf]

19 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

They lost to the Magic in 09 ECF.

 

Remind me me again whom the Cavs/Heat/Warriors lost to in the Conference Finals. 

The Celtics weren’t anywhere near as lopsidedly OP as those teams. They were still vulnerable, even in their own conference. 

Some “super team”.

 

Specifically in the conference finals is a weird restriction. The Cavs never had the opportunity because they only met the Celtics twice, both in the conference semis and both with the Celtics winning.

 

1 hour ago, AustinFomBoston said:

You’re comparing a fake (fixed) sport to a real one. Give me an example from MLB, NHL, or NFL. Oh wait, you can’t because they actually have parity, something you don’t seem to care about.

 

I think you've lost perspective since you're a fan of an NFL team that's been in contention for nearly 20 years now. People have graduated from high school having not known a world in which the Patriots suck. We're also talking about basketball where a single person makes a far greater impact than in any of the other major team sports. Outside of pro wrestling, where making Steve Austin and Triple H into a tag team fundamentally "breaks" the division, I mean.

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Actually I think most people were satisfied considering it wasn’t another Warriors/Cavs super team that won.

 

Satisfied with their teams though? The Celtics didn't seem satisfied. The Rockets didn't seem satisfied. The Raptors winning was great and all, but like Starrcade 97, it was a bit underwhelming in some respects. Sure, the Raptors won just like Sting won, but they did it after the Warriors lost Klay and KD, similar to how Sting won after a botched fast count with a restart that was wonky. But everybody was happy to see the Warriors lose no matter what, just like people were happy to see the nWo felled no matter what.

[OnWis97]

I would certainly argue that the Celtics were sort of a step on the way to super-teams.  I could make the same arugment for the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.  OK, Shaq just wanted to maximize his earning potential, but that was hardly organic.

 

I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) the big-three got together or anything...KG had to be traded.  So while it wasn't a top-five player joining a 73-win team, it wasn't exactly "organic," either.

 

This was something that was bound to happen.  A couple of players can just make such a difference in basketball.  As jarring as it was when the Yankees had the two best shortstops in baseball, they don't pitch or bat in 7/9 spots.  In basketball, it's different in terms of impact.  That's why we grill guys for not having any or enough titles.  Nobody cares that Ted Williams did not have championship.  But I'd argue that media and fan talk about "no rings" led to The Decision and KD's decision...That's why I think that super-team building was inevitable.

 

KD had the chance to beat them the next year...but he was, what, eight? years in?  He wanted to erase any doubt and get that monkey off his back.

 

It makes what the Pre-KD Warriors did that much more impressive.  That team was essentially built organically. I appreciated that, but KD ended that in a split second.

[AustinFromBoston]

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

Specifically in the conference finals is a weird restriction. The Cavs never had the opportunity because they only met the Celtics twice, both in the conference semis and both with the Celtics winning.

Point is Cavs/Warriors made consecutive finals. Celtics only made 2 & out of 3 (winning 1) and they weren’t consecutive. 

The early 2000 Lakers had more success. Even the Spurs. 

 

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

think you've lost perspective since you're a fan of an NFL team that's been in contention for nearly 20 years now. People have graduated from high school having not known a world in which the Patriots suck. We're also talking about basketball where a single person makes a far greater impact than in any of the other major team sports. Outside of pro wrestling, where making Steve Austin and Triple H into a tag team fundamentally "breaks" the division, I mean.

Difference with the Patriots is they do it with different players, and not guys that are the absolute best in the entire league.

 

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

Satisfied with their teams though? The Celtics didn't seem satisfied. The Rockets didn't seem satisfied. The Raptors winning was great and all, but like Starrcade 97, it was a bit underwhelming in some respects. Sure, the Raptors won just like Sting won, but they did it after the Warriors lost Klay and KD, similar to how Sting won after a botched fast count with a restart that was wonky. But everybody was happy to see the Warriors lose no matter what, just like people were happy to see the nWo felled no matter what.

So you’re ok with teams absurdly stacking their teams to the point where it’s just the same team(s) in the finals year & and year out? Very rarely with any parity.

 

can we at least agree we want more of stuff like we had this year, than the Previous years with Warriors-Cavs ad infinity? 

[Digby]

Are we really doing this again?

[Red Wolf]

9 minutes ago, Digby said:

Are we really doing this again?

 

Doing? No. Did? Yes. But this time with more wrestling talk because I'm just the worst.

[Glover]

Today I learned Lebron and the Warriors broke the NBA for appearing in the Finals too many consecutive years. 

 

Could you imagine how broken the league would be if a team went to the Finals every year for an entire decade and won 9 of them, including 8 in a row? 

 

 

 

[AustinFromBoston]

So I'm confused? You guys are ok with the League have as little parity as possible? Because right now that's all you're defending.  

You don't want to see more of what we had last year where it was a genuine toss up between a few teams? 

You'd rather next years Finals matchup already be decided by the time Summer League rolls around? 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Please stop.

 

Ben Simmons on a max deal! Let's hope he learns how to shoot!

 

 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, AustinFomBoston said:

So I'm confused? You guys are ok with the League have as little parity as possible? Because right now that's all you're defending.  

You don't want to see more of what we had last year where it was a genuine toss up between a few teams? 

You'd rather next years Finals matchup already be decided by the time Summer League rolls around? 

 

There really hasn't been parity since the mid to late '70's. 

[alxy8s]

I didn't mind the Celtics super team at all because the principal players' ages were so advanced that the whole thing was self-limiting. As a fan, I didn't give a :censored: what the Heat did to stack the deck, but it was never as tilted as their detractors pretended. Wade's health was always up in the air, and outside of the 27-game streak, the team never really reached the level people thought they might. There was certainly never a point where "not 5, not 6, not 7" looked remotely realistic. It did for Golden State, though. KD to the Warriors was always so demoralizing, not just due to the talent level, but also the youth of all the players. That iteration of GSW was beyond a "super team" and could have dominated the league for 10 straight years if KD hadn't gotten sick of it.

 

LeBron gave me 4 of the most absolutely enjoyable years I've ever had as a sports fan, so I'm completely in the tank for him. I want to see him succeed at the highest level again before it's over. The fact that his career will end so soon is a big part of why I have no problem at all with a LBJ+AD+Kawhi team. It's 2 years. It's a back-to-back attempt before LeBron leaves to play with his son on whatever team drafts the kid. I just hope it involves a 1 vs. 8 matchup between LeBron and the Warriors where the dominant/depleted roles are completely reversed from the 2015-18 Finals.

 

Anyhow, super teams are usually pretty fun. I actually enjoy watching a team execute at an unbelievable level and running opponents out of the building in the regular season, but it's not really what the Finals should be like. As talented as the Warriors were overall, such a huge part of that was the 3 pointer and their pace. The Lakers can't match that and won't be going on those 2-minute 15-0 runs in quite the same way. They'll be the best team, but it won't manifest itself in such huge margins of victory.

[kimball]

2 hours ago, Wings said:

 

There really hasn't been parity since the mid to late '70's. 

 

I agree. And, I think now that the salary cap has caught up with the Warriors, we're going to see a new age of parity. 

[IceCap]

4 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

 

Doing? No. Did? Yes. But this time with more wrestling talk because I'm just the worst.

 

 

"Wrestling is better than the things you like."

[DG_ThenNowForever]

48 minutes ago, kimball said:

 

I agree. And, I think now that the salary cap has caught up with the Warriors, we're going to see a new age of parity. 

 

It's less the cap and more KD didn't want to re-sign. Teams can go above their cap to sign their own players, and the Warriors showed every indication they were going to do so.