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Tampa Bay Rays: Escape from the Trop


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1 hour ago, Red Comet said:


I was about to say, anyone thinking you could plop a place like Lambeau, Gillette or Arrowhead in the middle of a downtown has a couple of screws loose. Baseball or hockey/basketball? Sure, as long as the city in question has the infrastructure to handle transportation of people to and from the game and there’s a decent nightlife to be had after the game. Some places, however, would be disastrous to have a downtown stadium right now. Like Kansas City as the only mass transit we currently have aside from the bus system is a 2 mile long streetcar from the River Market to the WWI Museum. Trying to get 30-40,000 (maybe more like 20-30,000 but still) people to a baseball stadium for 80 or so nights a year would be a disaster right now so naturally the idea is under consideration
 

Of course, as for the Rays right now? Looks like Nashville is back on the menu, boys. If this move does happen, my guess is that the Tigers or whatever the team in Cleveland is called by then and the relocated Rays would switch divisions. First they need a stadium, however. 

Putting the Trop lease to one side for a moment - do they have any facility in the Nashville area for the Rays to move to in the mean time?

(Naturally, they do have time to build the stadium by the time the Rays can leave the Trop).

 

Geographically, Cleveland makes more sense as the team displaced for Nashville going to the Central. But, apart from logistics and division identity, I wouldn't be surprised if the Rays stayed in the East for the short term. Same would apply if they went to Montreal - the city works in either division. (Whether that makes it right, is a whole other matter! :) )

 

Pardon my limited knowledge on this, but could Detroit or Cleveland just refuse to move? Or does the league reserve the right to move a teams division?

 

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On 5/27/2021 at 2:05 PM, Sport said:

Let me ask, is 35 minutes a typical travel distance for Brewers fans or is that on the higher end? I feel like even situated where it is Miller Park is pretty centrally located.

 

More or less, yeah, unless you're coming from Here There Be Monsters territory, which a fair deal of Brewers fans are.

 

With Miller Park, the issue isn't location or traffic -- Milwaukee traffic has always struck me as rather light compared to what I've witnessed in Chicago -- but rather some absolutely horrific ingress/egress issues. That place has to have the worst parking lot bottlenecks east of Dodger Stadium. Getting out has been a miserable experience each time I've gone to a game there. That's where Milwaukee's lack of public transit hits you -- everyone drove to the game and they're all pretty much leaving at once.

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30 minutes ago, DukeofChutney said:

Pardon my limited knowledge on this, but could Detroit or Cleveland just refuse to move? Or does the league reserve the right to move a teams division?

 

 

I remember that the Royals were approached to move to the NL Central before the Brewers but they refused and then you had the situation with the Astros this past decade. So, the team would have to consent to relocating to another division or league. 

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36 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

 

I remember that the Royals were approached to move to the NL Central before the Brewers but they refused and then you had the situation with the Astros this past decade. So, the team would have to consent to relocating to another division or league. 

Ah ok, thanks.

 

I guess there are compensations from the league for the team that moves too.  You can't blame a team for staying though  (keeping this generic) if you're in a decent divison that you have a 75% chance of winning, why move to a division that could reduce that to, say 50%.

Of couse if that move means that you'd sell more regular season tickets then that works but is that worth it at the expense of playoff prospects.

 

Anyway... I guess neither Detroit or Cleveland need to worry too much about it now. Not with this lease on the Trop still having a few years left in it.

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2 hours ago, mania said:

 

I really, really wish this board would stop propogating this lie.

 

They don't.

 

They don't do as poorly as say, the Marlins, but they're not a top watched team by any metric.


Ah yes, the ratings misinformation about how the Rays do “great ratings.”
 

In 2019, they were ranked #16, ahead of some truly terrible clubs (Pirates, Tigers, Rockies, Mariners) and clubs with screwy tv deals (Dodgers). The Marlins were at the bottom, of course. 
 

They’re not the “runaway ratings success” that people try to tell you they are. Again, ownership and the stadium situation are to blame for disincentivizing fan engagement.

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RSN ratings are tricky because you can toggle between gross number of households and market share depending on which argument you're trying to make at the moment. The Devils always have a small sliver of the pie, but a ratings point is worth more in the New York tri-state area than it is in Nashville, so even with bad ratings, the Devils still have pretty good ratings. In conclusion, New Jersey is a land of contrasts.

 

I've always understood the Rays' TV situation to be that their ratings are "good, considering," or rather that their television viewership is not commensurate with their woeful attendance, and if it were, there'd be even more of a problem than there is right now. 

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5 hours ago, DukeofChutney said:

Putting the Trop lease to one side for a moment - do they have any facility in the Nashville area for the Rays to move to in the mean time?

(Naturally, they do have time to build the stadium by the time the Rays can leave the Trop).

 

Geographically, Cleveland makes more sense as the team displaced for Nashville going to the Central. But, apart from logistics and division identity, I wouldn't be surprised if the Rays stayed in the East for the short term. Same would apply if they went to Montreal - the city works in either division. (Whether that makes it right, is a whole other matter! :) )

 

Pardon my limited knowledge on this, but could Detroit or Cleveland just refuse to move? Or does the league reserve the right to move a teams division?

 

Before the addition of Arizona and Tampa Bay in 1998, Detroit was in the East and Cleveland was in the Central.

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6 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

More or less, yeah, unless you're coming from Here There Be Monsters territory, which a fair deal of Brewers fans are.

 

With Miller Park, the issue isn't location or traffic -- Milwaukee traffic has always struck me as rather light compared to what I've witnessed in Chicago -- but rather some absolutely horrific ingress/egress issues. That place has to have the worst parking lot bottlenecks east of Dodger Stadium. Getting out has been a miserable experience each time I've gone to a game there. That's where Milwaukee's lack of public transit hits you -- everyone drove to the game and they're all pretty much leaving at once.

Just curious--do you expect 25-30,000 people to magically leave the same place at the same time? Of course we all drove to the game, as there's this institution known as tailgating. I've only known one local to complain about leaving the game. I'm sure there's more. If the team went back to the ceremonial opening and closing of the roof, it might lag the times of people leaving. I guess it's what I expect having grown up going to Lambeau. It's gonna take time to leave. Oh well??

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Plenty of daylight between "it's gonna take time to leave" and "insufficient infrastructure and the folly of only having one way to reach the premises." Any mass gathering takes time to leave. Getting out of a Brewers game is like eating crap for dessert.  I don't know to what extent they could fix it. There's not a transit culture in Wisconsin.

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23 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Plenty of daylight between "it's gonna take time to leave" and "insufficient infrastructure and the folly of only having one way to reach the premises." Any mass gathering takes time to leave. Getting out of a Brewers game is like eating crap for dessert.  I don't know to what extent they could fix it. There's not a transit culture in Wisconsin.


I remember all the people whining about the streetcars in Milwaukee, which started service during the last year I was there. I didn’t ride it, because I could comfortably walk to the places I really wanted to go. The most issues it gave me were construction noises when I was in the Third Ward. 

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You don't need to abandon tailgating forever to improve access to a stadium.

 

Maybe you have shuttle buses and convert a lane to bus-only on game days. Maybe you provide discounts or free passes to HOV drivers. Maybe you build monorail or something.

 

I don't know. It's not just "well, what can you do?" It's bad for our planet to simply assume it's one person one car for forever. There are better ways.

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57 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Maybe you have shuttle buses and convert a lane to bus-only on game days. Maybe you provide discounts or free passes to HOV drivers. Maybe you build monorail or something.

 

Yeah, I think you'd have to work within existing infrastructure and kinda kludge it with more buses or something. There's no appetite for a big project like a monorail. Couldn't even get high-speed rail to link Milwaukee and Madison, which would have made life easier for so many people. 

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14 hours ago, Red Comet said:


I was about to say, anyone thinking you could plop a place like Lambeau, Gillette or Arrowhead in the middle of a downtown has a couple of screws loose. Baseball or hockey/basketball? Sure, as long as the city in question has the infrastructure to handle transportation of people to and from the game and there’s a decent nightlife to be had after the game.


Some cities have managed downtown and/or transit accessible NFL stadia — Baltimore, Philly, Seattle come to mind that I know of. Gillette would have wound up in Boston if the Brady era began a few years earlier and the team knew how things worked in the state house. Now, whether that’s a good idea is another question; last time I was in Minneapolis pre-pandemic the new Vikings stadium was shocking, and not in a good way.

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Heck, Mile High is on my light rail route into downtown Denver. It’s pretty easy to access from downtown and other areas via light rail routes, as is Ball Arena. The Dick in Commerce City (8 miles north of downtown Denver), however...

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12 minutes ago, Digby said:

Knowing what we know now about environmental effects and urban policy— the multipurpose stadiums had a point. Keep the Trop!

 

You're not wrong.

 

The Sounders and Seahawks share a giant  stadium downtown and it's awesome for everyone.

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Agreed. As much as I love the new FC Cincinnati stadium the ideal perfect world solution would've been that it never had to be built and they'd play their home games at Paul Brown Stadium. Instead PBS takes up tons of space on our riverfront unused by the public for well over 300 days a year. We have 4 stadiums for 3 pro sports teams and a college football team who uses theirs maybe 7 times a year. It's pretty crazy when you actually think about what these teams do for the city and how often the facilities get used. 

 

I grow more horrified by each new stadium. The Rams spent 5 billion for Sofi and now all these rich guys think that's the going price and the next guy will spend 6 billion. The Rangers spent 1.2 billion to replace a 25 year old stadium and for the life of me I can't figure out where the money went. Somebody in Arlington, Texas is up to something fishy with that monstrosity. 

 

FC Cincinnati, however, just spent 250 million for a seating capacity around 26,000 and I think MLB teams should be taking notes from these Soccer Specific Stadiums. They're smaller, but they're still impressive and nice places to visits. There's gotta be ways to go about it that are economical yet still makes fans feel like they're in a big league facility. Take, IDK, 400 million and build a nice, intimate, contained facility with 30K seats, and put a simple sliding roof on it if you need AC because you live in a place too hot for people to exist. But there's absolutely no reason we need to be spending the GDP of St kitts and Nevis on a baseball stadium other than the billionaires want to measure wallets against other billionaires.  

 

 

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If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

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17 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

True, but Inter Miami built this on the site of old Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, but still wants their own stadium in Miami proper.

 

project-Lockhart-02.jpg

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