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The Montreal-Tampa Rays?

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3 hours ago, Magic Dynasty said:

When I have to make a 4 hour roundtrip drive, alongside actually watching the game? Yeah.

I drive four plus hours round trip 7 times per year for football. Different, yes, but if it meant I might have a role in saving my team, I might plan a few more trips.

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11 hours ago, Magic Dynasty said:

When I have to make a 4 hour roundtrip drive, alongside actually watching the game? Yeah.

Just 4 hours? You must live right outside Tampa, for anywhere else it’s possibly 4 hours just one way trying to get to the game.

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12 hours ago, Survival79 said:

 

Announced attendance for first home game after the Montreal plan was revealed: 13,955. 

 

Announced attendance is "tickets sold", not "attendance", and obviously most of those tickets were probably sold before the announcement.

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10 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

I drive four plus hours round trip 7 times per year for football. Different, yes, but if it meant I might have a role in saving my team, I might plan a few more trips.

 

Him making multiple 4-hour trips, on weeknights, is relevant to saving his team.  If anything, it's just going to create more grief since he'd be investing more into a relationship that's just going to end with him being a cuckhold watching his wife slurp down some stylish french canadian's rock hard pastrami.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Him making multiple 4-hour trips, on weeknights, is relevant to saving his team.  If anything, it's just going to create more grief since he'd be investing more into a relationship that's just going to end with him being a cuckhold watching his wife slurp down some stylish french canadian's rock hard pastrami.

 

 

Sure, but if I were trying to save my team, I would be making more than "a few" trips before the end of the season. Week nights be damned. Four hour trip be damned. 

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3 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Sure, but if I were trying to save my team, I would be making more than "a few" trips before the end of the season. Week nights be damned. Four hour trip be damned. 

 

Easy to say when you're not the one facing the problem.  "I'm leaving work at 4 so I can drive two hours to save my team and then get home at close to 1AM and be crappy at work the next day" simply isn't reasonable.  Your example of traveling to Packers games 7 times a year isn't even in the same ballpark of what we're talking about here.  While I'm not facing it either, my gut reaction would be to say FU and not waste my time.  Of course, this move is so unlikely to happen, and the most likely situation is them staying put for the next 8 years, so it's kind of a moot point.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Survival79 said:

 

Announced attendance for first home game after the Montreal plan was revealed: 13,955. 

That's still under their season average (which isn't great either).

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance

 

Not to mention Vet's right. Immediate post-announcement doesn't mean much. Let's see how it looks a week on.

 

EDIT- lol Miami

Edited by Ice_Cap

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1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

That's still under their season average (which isn't great either).

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance

 

Not to mention Vet's right. Immediate post-announcement doesn't mean much. Let's see how it looks a week on.

 

EDIT- lol Miami

 

Time to contract the Marlins.

 

Interesting to see Seattle in the top 20 there. The team has been so bad for so long, it's amazing people still show up. And I'll say that when Seattle had its hot start, there were really was a lot of buzz in town around the Mariners. People were excited, going to games, and ready to watch winning baseball in the city.

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I admit, I totally ignored the Mariners after the hot start, and only noticed their record since when they traded Encarnaçion. 😳

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This popped up on my YouTube feed - interesting to see how Sternberg felt about the prospect of baseball in Montreal as far back as 2013. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

This popped up on my YouTube feed - interesting to see how Sternberg felt about the prospect of baseball in Montreal as far back as 2013. 

 

I’ve always figured that Montréal was the most trouble-free relocation in the same way DC was for the MK I Expos (no realignment, decent temporary stadium, etc.). 

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21 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

I’ve always figured that Montréal was the most trouble-free relocation in the same way DC was for the MK I Expos (no realignment, decent temporary stadium, etc.). 

 

Did the Expos really ever compete for good free agents?  Is it fair to ask whether they'd be at a disadvantage for recruiting any star African American players without dramatically overpaying?  I don't think Latin American players would be an issue - in fact some might prefer it, at least for the next 1-5 years, and I don't think most white American-born players would have any issue, as it's a great place despite presenting some extra challenges for their families that might move with them, but would AA players really go for it considering they'd be putting themselves in situations where they're more of a minority than they are anywhere in the states, and from things that I've read (not witnessed personally) it's not known for embracing racial diversity?  Is it fair to ask that, and is it a fair concern?

 

It might be a moot point, since the results of a google search for black MLB players shocked me when I saw how few there were, but the ability to draw FA's in a non-capped sport is usually one of the first things on my mind once the other hurdles (basic start-up) prove to be workable (which, so far, they haven't in MTL's case.)  In capped sports, it doesn't matter as much, since there's limited money to go around and any player will follow the money anywhere, but baseball is different.

 

 

 

 

 

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Why is this still being discussed. The Tampa Bay-Montreal Rays is never going to happen. 

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Just now, Olmec said:

Why is this still being discussed. The Tampa Bay-Montreal Rays is never going to happen. 

 

Of course not.  But the odds are much better that the Rays will be playing in Montreal in five years’ time than that they will be playing in Tampa Bay. 

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Just now, Gothamite said:

 

Of course not.  But the odds are much better that the Rays will be playing in Montreal in five years’ time than that they will be playing in Tampa Bay. 

 

Maybe 8 years time... unless that buyout shrinks a bit every year.  In the video that you posted it was said that part of breaking the lease early would be that they'd have to fund the demo, in addition to any financial buyouts.  What is not known, is if it's a compulsory lease (I forget the legal term) that requires them to operate there, regardless of if they just pay the lease off and attempt to operate elsewhere, like most leases are.

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29 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

I’ve always figured that Montréal was the most trouble-free relocation in the same way DC was for the MK I Expos (no realignment, decent temporary stadium, etc.). 

 

My guess is there would be some reel line mint, if not at first, but eventually.  I think I said this before, but it's killing multiple birds with one stone:

1) Marlins to AL East, where their attendance woud get a boost from Red Sox and Yankees games, and 

2) MTL to NL East, where they'd get their old rivals back, and get a boost (if needed, and presumably) from road-tripping NY and Phila fans.  They'd also be more competitive in this scenario.

 

I think all parties involved would jump at this scenario.

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4 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Did the Expos really ever compete for good free agents?  Is it fair to ask whether they'd be at a disadvantage for recruiting any star African American players without dramatically overpaying?  I don't think Latin American players would be an issue - in fact some might prefer it, at least for the next 1-5 years, and I don't think most white American-born players would have any issue, as it's a great place despite presenting some extra challenges for their families that might move with them, but would AA players really go for it considering they'd be putting themselves in situations where they're more of a minority than they are anywhere in the states, and from things that I've read (not witnessed personally) it's not known for embracing racial diversity?  Is it fair to ask that, and is it a fair concern?

 

It might be a moot point, since the results of a google search for black MLB players shocked me when I saw how few there were, but the ability to draw FA's in a non-capped sport is usually one of the first things on my mind once the other hurdles (basic start-up) prove to be workable (which, so far, they haven't in MTL's case.)  In capped sports, it doesn't matter as much, since there's limited money to go around and any player will follow the money anywhere, but baseball is different.

 

Funny you should mention that, since the first Expo that comes to mind is usually Vladimir. 

 

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I don’t think there’s a whole lot of concern about attracting African-American free agents to Montreal.  The Braves are now in the heart of White Atlanta, but I haven’t heard they’re having that problem.  Similarly, the PNW is pretty white, has a very troubled racial history, and Seattle seems to do fine.  I’m also reminded of the Green Bay Packers, who definitely had a hard time luring black players to town until Reggie White made his statement by signing.

 

Ultimately, I think playing for a competitor is the deciding factor.  With money being a close second.  If the nouveau-Spos can offer either or both of those, they’ll be fine in the free-agent market.  

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8 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Maybe 8 years time... unless that buyout shrinks a bit every year.  In the video that you posted it was said that part of breaking the lease early would be that they'd have to fund the demo, in addition to any financial buyouts.  What is not known, is if it's a compulsory lease (I forget the legal term) that requires them to operate there, regardless of if they just pay the lease off and attempt to operate elsewhere, like most leases are.

 

My understanding is that the buyout does go down every year.  Not to downplay even that amount, but at some point it’s better to spend a big chunk of cash to get out of an unsustainable market.  And the Rays are now admitting that Tampa Bay is an unsustainable market, after many years of publicly insisting otherwise.

 

As for the compulsory lease, that’s just one more hurdle.  There are reports that the Chicago Fire have secured a release from their suburban stadium, which was the most airtight I’ve ever heard of.  Not only were the Fire contractually obligated to play there, but if MLS ever announced a second Chicago club that team would also be contractually obligated to play there.

 

There is no contract that can’t be broken.  The only question is how much it’ll cost.  At some point St. Pete will accept a deal and the Rays will write a check. 

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6 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

I’m also reminded of the Green Bay Packers, who definitely had a hard time luring black players to town until Reggie White made his statement by signing.

 

Milwaukee proper, on the other hand, will be a bit of a fight. The Milwaukee PD’s ineptitude when it comes to race (and sexuality, see Konerak Sinthasomphone) is legendary. Publicized incidents of the MPD harassing Bucks players will not go unnoticed, no matter how competitive the Bucks or Brewers are. 

 

6 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Ultimately, I think playing for a competitor is the deciding factor.  With money being a close second.  If the nouveau-Spos can offer either or both of those, they’ll be fine in the free-agent market.  

 

I would agree with this assessment, to an extent. With waves of immigration into the city, being black would be less of a problem. Language laws may be annoying, but there are workarounds. 

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50 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Funny you should mention that, since the first Expo that comes to mind is usually Vladimir. 

 

spacer.png

 

I don’t think there’s a whole lot of concern about attracting African-American free agents to Montreal.  The Braves are now in the heart of White Atlanta, but I haven’t heard they’re having that problem.  Similarly, the PNW is pretty white, has a very troubled racial history, and Seattle seems to do fine.  I’m also reminded of the Green Bay Packers, who definitely had a hard time luring black players to town until Reggie White made his statement by signing.

 

Ultimately, I think playing for a competitor is the deciding factor.  With money being a close second.  If the nouveau-Spos can offer either or both of those, they’ll be fine in the free-agent market.  

 

Vlad was neither a FA nor an African American, but rather a Dominican.  I only draw the distinction because being an immigrant or playing on a visa in the states vs going to Canada is like Gala to Fuji if the alternative is staying in DR and living in poverty, while for a "native" African American, LA or NY vs MTL might be like Gala to Naval.  Not just because of race, because that could be a factor anywhere (though we don't see flocks of great AA players going to any of those places you mentioned in non-capped sports... specifically the PNW, MIN, MIL, etc.) but I've just observed that (and maybe it's just recently with the Kawhi Leonard thing that's sticking in my brain) going to Canada seems equivalent to going to Mars for some people, and if TOR is Mars, then MTL might as well be Jupiter.  Again, I'm putting words and feelings into people that may not even have them, just having the discussion - but there might not even be a discussion to be had.

 

At the end of the day, I'd rank money over winning, rather than how you had it.  There's definitely been some recent cases of guys taking a little less to play somewhere they wanted to be vs somewhere else, but it's usually not a ton less, and it's usually to a place with an equal chance of winning (Cliff Lee to the Phillies in '11 after turning down more from NYY is an example), but nobody is signing with a hot TB Rays team for less than a struggling Mets team would pay them.

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