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Teams that ignore their 90s identity

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20 hours ago, MC Buffalo said:

I stand corrected on it being "official" but stand hard behind the statement... "Anyone who embraces the return of the Black and Red era is either under 30 or not a true fan..."

 

I'm 45, and whether you care to believe me or not, a life-long Sabres fan.  I lived through the Rigas fiasco.  I was one of the 8,000 fans in the seats for some of those games in 2002-03 when the team was in bankruptcy and being controlled by the league.  I held my breath alongside all the other 'true fans' while waiting for Tom Golisano to ride in on his white horse and save the team in Buffalo. 

 

All that said, I would have no problem with the Sabres rolling out the goathead jerseys as an occasional alt like Vancouver does with their spaghetti skate throwbacks.  There were plenty of good times in those jerseys, and plenty of fans who still love them in spite of all the bad times they had in them.

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17 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

I associate the red & black with...the best goalie ever.

What does Martin Brodeur have to do with the Sabres’ goathead look? ;) 

 

45 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

Get outta here with that crap. A team shouldn't ignore a prominent part of their history (and yes, the Goathead look is a prominent part of the team's history since they went to the Cup Finals with that look and it was around for 10 years) just because you personally don't like it when a lot of other people do like it.

Fair, but on the other hand? People who are into a lot of these niche 90s looks need to realize that teams aren’t required to cater to their specific tastes. The Angels don’t need to throw back to periwinkle, the Pistons don’t need to throw back to teal, and the Sabres don’t need to throw back to the goathead. 

 

Yeah, the goathead has fans, but like I said in the NHL thread? The goathead era represented an aberration in team history. A departure the team took from their established identity their very loyal fan base had grown to support. It’s because of this that it was never going to last short of a Cup, which they failed to win. 

 

If you liked it anyway? Cool. Like the guy who likes cheesy B-movies though? You gotta admit that it’s a niche position. Otherwise you’re looking to promote a minority opinion over what most fans seem to prefer. 

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17 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Fair, but on the other hand? People who are into a lot of these niche 90s looks need to realize that teams aren’t required to cater to their specific tastes. The Angels don’t need to throw back to periwinkle, the Pistons don’t need to throw back to teal, and the Sabres don’t need to throw back to the goathead. 

True, but in my opinion, no professional team ever has really needed to throw back to a previous uniform style. Teams are, after all, all about making profit; and what better way to make profit then bank on powerful nostalgia? 😛 There are some 90's looks that are just incredibly nice to look at, like Anaheim's or Dallas's, but I don't think anybody's REALLY pining for, like, Pooh Bear or the Burger King to make a comeback.

 

Quote

Yeah, the goathead has fans, but like I said in the NHL thread? The goathead era represented an aberration in team history. A departure the team took from their established identity their very loyal fan base had grown to support. It’s because of this that it was never going to last short of a Cup, which they failed to win. 

But it's become clear enough that people like the Goathead as much for it's design value over just being new. It's not like the Buffaslug, where basically nobody trulyunironically considers it the best logo the Sabres have had. The red/black is a departure, true, but I think you could definitely still get the Goathead to look good on a more traditionally-colored Buffalo jersey. It's not unsalvageable like the Buffaslug, in my opinion.

 

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If you liked it anyway? Cool. Like the guy who likes cheesy B-movies though? You gotta admit that it’s a niche position. Otherwise you’re looking to promote a minority opinion over what most fans seem to prefer. 

It is a nicher position, but I feel like people have turned around on the Goathead era a bit, and not just due to 90's nostalgia. It feels kinda like the original looks for Anaheim and Arizona, in a way; a look that used to be completely and utterly reviled that has become beloved and cherished over time. I think modifying the look to really marry both eras of Sabres hockey would be a perfect direction for the team to go in. Goathead logo, original colors is what I'd love to see as the main look of the Buffalo Sabres.

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24 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

Ah, yes, the infamous No True Scotsman fallacy; "I don't like the Red and Black Goathead look, so anybody who does like it isn't a true fan!".

 

Get outta here with that crap. A team shouldn't ignore a prominent part of their history (and yes, the Goathead look is a prominent part of the team's history since they went to the Cup Finals with that look and it was around for 10 years) just because you personally don't like it when a lot of other people do like it. Don't be a gatekeeper where you only accept one vision of what is "the best" for a team. A fan is not determined by which jersey era they prefer.

If the Red and Black era was brought about for honest reasons to truly try and re-brand the Buffalo Sabres for a new era, then I could look back at it and say 'not my cup of tea, but appreciate those who did (or do) like it..."

In Pittsburgh the owners of the Penguins, at the time, tried to capitalize on the tradition of winning that the Pirates and Steelers of the 70's had established and rebranded and changed their colors to Black/Yellow, completely understandable.

The owners of the Sabres had no other reason to change their colors to Red/Black than a corporate tie in with the Cable Company owned by the new owners.

This is what I objected to then and why I still object to reusing as a "throwback identity" now. The owner turning out to literally be a criminal who is living out the rest of his days in a Federal Prison just taints the Red/Black era even more.

Scandalous History is often expunged from Sports. I don't foresee the Buffalo Bills holding an O.J. Simpson day at the Stadium any time soon and I don't think the current Sabres ownership should embrace that era's identity when The Sabres were born Blue/Gold and are now back to Blue/Gold. I have no problem with the Sabres embracing the actual teams that were on the ice and all their accomplishments. Yes they had some really good seasons in Red/Black, those memories should be held in high esteem. I just don't want to ever see the team take the ice in those Jerseys ever again.

Call me what you wish, I could care less, I'll take all the hate and social media style outrage thrown this way. For THIS issue I stand firm.

This team almost left this city because of what John Rigas and The Adelphia Communications group did, if it had just been misguided leadership, it could be forgiven, but when it comes from a place of pure vanity and greed, criminal even, then maybe we use the old adage "forgive maybe, forget never!" and we leave the Black and Red Jerseys where they belong on the scrap heap of history and the back of peoples closets.

Yes "TRUE" fans of the Sabres should know the history of their team enough to know that the Rigas era was everything that can be wrong in sports ownership.

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5 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

I think modifying the look to really marry both eras of Sabres hockey would be a perfect direction for the team to go in. Goathead logo, original colors is what I'd love to see as the main look of the Buffalo Sabres.

 

OK, see now we are getting closer to meeting on some middle ground. My objection to bring back the Goat Head era was going back to Red/Black.

Now if you can show me an updated look with just the Goat Head and a new Blue/Gold template we can talk.

But honestly as much as some people do like the Goat Head, I think if you put it to a vote and you could somehow take nostalgia and per-ordained bias out of it, I think the Current Sabres Logo is much more aesthetically pleasing than the Goat Head.

C'mon, it's one of the few logos that is Phonetic. Buffalo on top of Sabres.

 

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13 minutes ago, MC Buffalo said:

Yes "TRUE" fans of the Sabres should know the history of their team enough to know that the Rigas era was everything that can be wrong in sports ownership.

If you think what Rigas did is even the worst thing a hockey owner has done, you clearly don't know anything about Harold Ballard. 😛 Plus, that era got you to a Stanley Cup Final for the only time in the history of the entire franchise. Like it or not, that identity is permanently tied to the highest point in your entire franchise.

 

This is like saying the Leafs shouldn't eventually throw back to the more angular leaf at some point in the future because it was around when the team was owned by the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan. The team ownership now is not the team ownership from then, and we shouldn't black out nostalgia for a certain era just because the owner wasn't great.

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This was the first thing that popped in my mind...the Cavs love to feature EVERY throwback of theirs (including some recolored fauxbacks)...EXCEPT for these:

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30 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

What does Martin Brodeur have to do with the Sabres’ goathead look? ;) 

 

I don't usually do "what if's," but imagine if Hasek didn't have to wait seven years to play in the NHL!

 

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2007/06/hasek-vs-brodeur-why-its-not-even-close.html

 

30 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

If you liked it anyway? Cool. Like the guy who likes cheesy B-movies though? You gotta admit that it’s a niche position. Otherwise you’re looking to promote a minority opinion over what most fans seem to prefer. 

 

I live in Buffalo and run a pretty lucrative side-hustle selling vintage jerseys. Believe it or not, this is by far the best-selling and most in-demand Sabres jersey:

 

s-l225.jpg

 

I don't think anybody is really pushing for the goathead to return as a primary. All three goathead-era unis are objectively gaudy and "90's," and while that probably won't work as a primary, there is a lane for that style again. The majority of fans around here really just want the original royal blue & yellow back with something from the goathead-era as an alternate (myself included).

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12 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

I don't think anybody is really pushing for the goathead to return as a primary. Fans really just want the original royal blue & yellow back with something from the goathead-era as an alternate (myself included).

I'd love to see it be a primary, myself, but I'll absolutely take a third from that era. I think the general thing among Sabres fans is "anything from our history but navy or the Slug please" at this point.

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10 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

 Plus, that era got you to a Stanley Cup Final for the only time in the history of the entire franchise. Like it or not, that identity is permanently tied to the highest point in your entire franchise.

 

The 1974-75 team went to the Final as well.

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4 minutes ago, Echo said:

 

The 1974-75 team went to the Final as well.

Ah, right, they did. Whoops, I'll take the L on that.

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30 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

True, but in my opinion, no professional team ever has really needed to throw back to a previous uniform style. Teams are, after all, all about making profit; and what better way to make profit then bank on powerful nostalgia? 😛 There are some 90's looks that are just incredibly nice to look at, like Anaheim's or Dallas's, but I don't think anybody's REALLY pining for, like, Pooh Bear or the Burger King to make a comeback.

Well that’s my point. Not all 90s looks really need a throwback. Hell, I’d say the Stars’ ASG ripoff look has a better case for being a throwback because it’s associated with a Cup championship. 

 

And to be clear, I have no problem if the Sabres decide they’re going to trot out some goathead throwbacks for some quick cash made off of nostalgia. That’s not my argument when it comes to the goathead. My argument is, well, you’ll see. 

 

30 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

It is a nicher position, but I feel like people have turned around on the Goathead era a bit, and not just due to 90's nostalgia. 

Two things. First? I don’t think the goathead was ever truly reviled. 

“This shouldn’t be the uniform of the Buffalo Sabres” does not make it reviled. The BuffaSlug is reviled. The Pooh Bear Bruins sweater is reviled. The goathead? Nah. It’s not reviled. It’s just not what most people want to see for the Buffalo Sabres. 

It would have worked had the Sabres been a 90s expansion team. They weren’t though, and the goathead never had the on-ice success needed to elevate it above the traditional Sabres colour scheme in the eyes of the vast majority of their fans. 

 

Secondly? This “goathead revival” showing up just about the time we would expect 90s nostalgia to take off makes me think it’s 90s nostalgia. 

 

30 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

I think modifying the look to really marry both eras of Sabres hockey would beperfect direction for the team to go in. Goathead logo, original colors is what I'd love to see as the main look of the Buffalo Sabres.

I was posting on these forums back when it was clear the Sabres were going to return to some form of blue and gold. What you’re describing was a VERY popular idea floating around. 

It’s also why I can’t get on board with it. Taking a logo from the 90s and recolouring it in a more traditional colour scheme is SUCH an early 2000s move (the Utah Jazz did it twice!)

 

On top of that? My real argument here is that the goathead just isn’t good enough to be a primary logo in today’s NHL. It’s VERY much a logo of its time- a snarling cartoon animal with too much detail for its own good. It fit right in with other logos at the time but today? No. It’s too dated. It screams mid/late 90s. Classic colour scheme or not? It’s not primary logo material. 

 

If the Sabres want to bring it back as an alternate? Cool, but that’s all it should be at this point. 

 

21 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

If you think what Rigas did is even the worst thing a hockey owner has done, you clearly don't know anything about Harold Ballard. 😛

It’s funny you mention Harold Ballard. The “Ballard Leaf” was a dated logo that represented the nadir of Leafs hockey. As such people campaigned for years to see it replaced with a version of the classic logo. 

And when the team finally did that? You had all of these people crawling out of the woodwork lamenting it and going “well I really liked it, shame they lost it!”

 

It strikes me as a bit...arrogant I guess? Like the B-movie guy who can’t admit that his tastes are niche. Goathead or Ballard Leaf...both were kind of dated departures from their teams’ established identities. Of course they were bound to have fans, and that’s fine. I just wish the fans of both would admit that yeah. Their tastes are niche compared to what most fans seem to want. 

 

17 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

I don't usually do "what if's," but imagine if Hasek didn't have to wait seven years to play in the NHL!

 

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2007/06/hasek-vs-brodeur-why-its-not-even-close.html

brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com? Real unbiased source you’ve got there ;) 

Besides “if things were different they’d be different” is rarely a good argument. 

 

17 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

I live in Buffalo and run a pretty lucrative side-hustle selling vintage jerseys. Believe it or not, this is by far the best-selling and most in-demand Sabres jersey:

How much is that up to the fact that it’s relatively unavailable? The Sabres have been selling retro blue and gold sweaters since the BuffaSlug. They’ve been selling blue and gold retro-inspired alts and one-offs since they dropped the BuffaSlug. 

Basically? If you’re a Sabres fan? You have plenty of options regarding the Sabres’ blue and gold look. Not as many if you want a goathead era look. 

 

I’m a Chargers fan. The biggest sign that the Chargers needed to switch to powder blue was the fact that it appeared very popular among fans at games. 

When I look at a Sabres crowd? I still see A LOT of blue and gold. 

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

I don't think anybody is really pushing for the goathead to return as a primary. All three goathead-era unis are objectively gaudy and "90's," and while that probably won't work as a primary, there is a lane for that style again. The majority of fans around here really just want the original royal blue & yellow back with something from the goathead-era as an alternate (myself included).

That’s fair, and I don’t have a problem with that conceptually. 

 

I just don’t think the goathead look works as a full-time Sabres uniform. As an alt? Sure, it would be fun. 

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36 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

 

>30 

True Fan 

Likes the Black & Red 

 

I associate the red & black with the best team in franchise history ('98/99 > 06/07 > 74/75) and the best goalie ever.

OK, I'm gonna take back the phrase "true fan"

HOWEVER, I'm replying to this reply, because I don't think that was the best "TEAM" in franchise history.

They absolutely had the best goalie ever and if he wasn't on his game, and by that I mean give up more than 1 goal we were likely to lose.

 

The 1974-75 team was better overall, but did not have the goal-tending they needed and then ran into a Flyers team who wasn't really playing Hockey during those championship seasons it was more like UFC on Ice.

 

To be honest I think the best Sabres team in history was actually the 1979-80 tean,

Scotty Bowman at the helm

Danny Gare led the league in Goals (tied at the top)

Jim Schoenfeld led the league in +/-

Bob Sauve/Don Edwards won the Vezina, they were number 1 and 3 in the league in Goals Against AVG. (it was a team award at that time)

This team then ran into the Buzzsaw that was the Islanders in the Semi-Finals as they were beginning their dynasty of four cups in a row.

 

I would even put the 1992-93 team ahead of 98/99.

Alex Mogilny with 76 Goals

Pat Lafontaine with 148 Points

Unfortunately it was Hasek's first year with the team and no one knew yet what they had. He appeared in 28 games and his stats where anything but impressive.

The following year he played 58 games had a sub 2 GAA and won the first of his 7 Vezina trophies.

That Hasek in net with Mogilny/Lafontaine of 92/93 puts them over the top.

93/94 Lafontaine plays in just 16 games and his concussions issues remained for the rest of his career.

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

Ah, right, they did. Whoops, I'll take the L on that.

The Buffalo Sabres have made the Stanley Cup Final three times. The 1974-75 Final, the 1979-80 Final, and the 1998-99 Final. 

 

So of the team’s three most successful seasons? They were in blue and gold with the classic logo for two of them.  

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32 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The Buffalo Sabres have made the Stanley Cup Final three times. The 1974-75 Final, the 1979-80 Final, and the 1998-99 Final. 

 

So of the team’s three most successful seasons? They were in blue and gold with the classic logo for two of them.  

79-80 Lost in Semi's to Islanders.

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1 minute ago, MC Buffalo said:

79-80 Lost in Semi's to Islanders.

Then Wikipedia is incorrect (shock of shocks) :P 

 

Regardless, the idea that the goathead and goathead alone is representative of the peak of Sabres hockey is incorrect. 

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34 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com? Real unbiased source you’ve got there ;) 

Besides “if things were different they’d be different” is rarely a good argument. 

 

The site does make some great points without hypotheticals, though. Hasek was like the Barry Sanders of goaltenders until he (ironically) landed in Detroit.

 

34 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

How much is that up to the fact that it’s relatively unavailable? The Sabres have been selling retro blue and gold sweaters since the BuffaSlug. They’ve been selling blue and gold retro-inspired alts and one-offs since they dropped the BuffaSlug. 

 

I'm sure the fact that the goathead hasn't been produced in 15 years plays a role. I can say that the legit 90's CCM/Starter blue & gold's outsell those Reebok faux/throwbacks, and, even though the early 90's jerseys are more scarce, the Goatheads outsell them all. I sell to several local vintage sports stores & they move much more Goathead gear than blue & gold. On top of that, I guess compared to the black & red, the current jerseys are awfully similar to the OG's, even if us purists disagree. I still don't think the fans want it back as a full-time look, probably just to be different and rep the 90's.

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I'm just sitting here, hoping for either of the Winter Classic jerseys to be the base of a new identity.

 

Speaking of popular '90s throwbacks that should be a bit more "in vogue,"

 

andre_tippett_1993_09_12.jpg

 

Aside from the shoulder numbers, this is the best the Patriots have ever looked.

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More like these for the Patriots

 

wire-1763874-1511252132-497_634x928.jpg

 

PIT98120604.jpg

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1 minute ago, Ark said:

More like these for the Patriots

*snipped for space*

Nah, too gimmicky. 

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