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2019 NFL Season: Super Bowl LIV


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12 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

If the NFL agrees and doesn't punish them, people are just going to claim the guy who lead an entire witch hunt against the Patriots 4 years ago is now covering up for them.


Goodell is wildly inconsistent decision-to-decision so that'd make sense actually. It's like the possession arrow in basketball - Is it Goodell's turn to come down hard on the Pats? Depends on how you felt he handled Kraft's Rub and Tug in the sex trafficking dungeon. I thought he was lenient so now this case it's time to overreact in the opposite direction. 

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9 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

 


Goodell is wildly inconsistent decision-to-decision so that'd make sense actually. It's like the possession arrow in basketball - Is it Goodell's turn to come down hard on the Pats? Depends on how you felt he handled Kraft's Rub and Tug in the sex trafficking dungeon. I thought he was lenient so now this case it's time to overreact in the opposite direction. 

As UrinatingTree puts it, They'll have to spin the NFL's "Wheel of Discipline". 

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3 hours ago, McCarthy said:


First person on the internet to make that joke!

 

hack jokes aside - either they do this to everyone, Belichick hasn’t played Zac Taylor before so he needed new intel, or they’re actually telling the truth and were simply filming a documentary. 
 

They’re probably telling the truth, but they’ve lost all benefit of the doubt so you have to approach this like they were cheating.

The Bengals having a new head coach is what makes this very suspect, sure the Pats don't really need to know the Bengals signals this season but that info can be useful down the line.

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I can see the Patriots being forthright here for two reasons: 1. That kind of branded content on teams websites is quite common these days and I can see someone working on something like that not knowing the rules and 2. getting a press credential and then cheating from the pressbox is a dumbf*** way to cheat. Buy the guy a ticket, hide him in a browns jersey, film the Bengals sideline from a phone. That's how you'd really pull off this scheme. 

 

https://theathletic.com/1447919/2019/12/10/dehner-jr-sources-say-patriots-video-focused-for-8-minutes-on-bengals-sideline/

 

The only thing that's fishy is the camera was allegedly keyed in on the Bengals sideline for EIGHT MINUTES in the first quarter, not that they only took quick shots of the field like the Patriots claimed. I do video production for my day job so I get trying to set the scene, provide wide shot b-roll for context of what the subject's seeing, but this wasn't a quick shot of the stadium to show what the scout's seeing. The only reason to train a camera on the upcoming opponent's sideline for that long is to catch something. That they'd do this against the worst team in the NFL suggests that 1. they then do this against everybody and 2. they can't help themselves. 

 

If this cheating thing is real then here's how I think they pull it off - Belichick separates himself for the cheating. He's got a system with plausible deniability like every good mob boss and his rathole guy is Ernie Adams. Ernie Adams sets up all these plans, he takes the ill-gotten information and delivers it to Belichick in the days leading up to whatever game is that week. Belichick doesn't ask how he got the info, Ernie Adams doesn't tell him. It is very funny that the excuse used here - "it's for a team show" was verbatim one of the prepared excuses should the employees get caught during the Spygate years. 

 

Anyways, every single Patriots win this century is now even more invalid than it already was and you should all feel bad for supporting such a lowlife organization of cheaters, thieves, arsonists, and adulterers. On the bright side, you are now free to :censored: about officiating like the rest of us since you're back to zero legit Super Bowl wins. So at least you have that. Welcome back to the loser couch, losers. 

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From The Athletic's Paul Dehner, Jr. less than an hour ago...

Quote

According to sources who have viewed the tape, it shows about eight minutes of footage focusing on recording the Bengals’ sideline. It’s a direct view of the sideline as players run on and off the field and coaches make signals for plays.

This isn’t an over-the-shoulder of the advanced scout who is doing his job stuff. This is shooting the sideline. For an extended period of time. The egregious nature of the video is why it set off the firestorm it did during the game with the Bengals executives in the press box.

This account doesn’t totally reflect the Patriots’ side of the story.

 

 

 

 

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Eight minutes in a solitary position is pretty far beyond what's needed for B-roll on a web series.

 

Is the Patriots behavior more egregious than the Houston Astros? I don't know. This is also not their first such issue for the Pats this season. Remember this?

 

Their winning is exhausting, but moreso is New England's insistence on bending the rules for every possible advantage. If they're not filming punt practices, they're filming the Bengals sideline. When they're not doing that, they're sending the Chiefs' equipment to Newark.

 

I know taking away draft picks won't do anything. Maybe they should start disqualifying the Pats from the postseason. They can beat up on the Jets and Dolphins all they want, but they get to sit their big asses on the couch in January just like me.

 

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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4 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Eight minutes in a solitary position is pretty far beyond what's needed for B-roll on a web series. 

 

Eight minutes of B-roll on a single shot means one of two things. 1. It’s not B-roll.  2. You’re the worst video producer in the business. 

 

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33 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Eight minutes in a solitary position is pretty far beyond what's needed for B-roll on a web series.

 

Is the Patriots behavior more egregious than the Houston Astros? I don't know. This is also not their first such issue for the Pats this season. Remember this?

 

Their winning is exhausting, but moreso is New England's insistence on bending the rules for every possible advantage. If they're not filming punt practices, they're filming the Bengals sideline. When they're not doing that, they're sending the Chiefs' equipment to Newark.

 

I know taking away draft picks won't do anything. Maybe they should start disqualifying the Pats from the postseason. They can beat up on the Jets and Dolphins all they want, but they get to sit their big asses on the couch in January just like me.

 


This. They don’t NEED to cheat. That’s why it’s so annoying that they still look for ways to do it. 
 

If the league can get concrete evidence that the Pats committed some violations then I don’t think a postseason ban, the same way college programs get put on probation and can’t play in bowl games, is unreasonable. They’re repeat offenders at this point and clearly addicted. That’s the only way to get them to stop. 

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It's also possible their success is based in large part on all of the cheating we haven't seen. That and Pete Carroll calling passes in obvious run situations.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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4 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

For as much as they do it, you'd think that they would be better at it. 

Maybe they are better at it.  Maybe they have a 99% "not caught rate."

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD

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I know the Pats aren't popular here, but let's be realistic.

 

Would it be more likely that they would fake a documentary series, produce several episodes, get permission from a team they've already played this season(who were not suspicious at all), dress in team gear, just to spy on a 1-12 team that is trying to lose and would likely put their playcalls on the jumbo-tron if asked.... or that in making a fluff PR docu series, the camera guy was kind of a dumbass?

 

And if they were going to try this, and be relatively blatant about it, why would they do the Bengals and not the Ravens or the Chiefs, who they'd play again in the playoffs?

 

By all means, fine the team for someone on the Kraft Productions team being this stupid and for not getting the Bengals permission as well, hell, fine the scout for not keeping an eye on the camera guy, but this is a goddamn reach even for this thread's standards.

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1 hour ago, mania said:

I know the Pats aren't popular here, but let's be realistic.

 

Would it be more likely that they would fake a documentary series, produce several episodes, get permission from a team they've already played this season(who were not suspicious at all), dress in team gear, just to spy on a 1-12 team that is trying to lose and would likely put their playcalls on the jumbo-tron if asked.... or that in making a fluff PR docu series, the camera guy was kind of a dumbass?

 

And if they were going to try this, and be relatively blatant about it, why would they do the Bengals and not the Ravens or the Chiefs, who they'd play again in the playoffs?

 

By all means, fine the team for someone on the Kraft Productions team being this stupid and for not getting the Bengals permission as well, hell, fine the scout for not keeping an eye on the camera guy, but this is a goddamn reach even for this thread's standards.

If it’s true that there’s over 8 minutes of sideline footage, I really don’t see a logical defense for it. 
 

1 or 2 minutes.....ok maybe they were being morons. But 8 minutes? Yeah they had to have known what they were doing.

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Quote

 

I know the Pats aren't popular here, but let's be realistic.

 

Would it be more likely that they would fake a documentary series, produce several episodes, get permission from a team they've already played this season(who were not suspicious at all), dress in team gear, just to spy on a 1-12 team that is trying to lose and would likely put their playcalls on the jumbo-tron if asked.... or that in making a fluff PR docu series, the camera guy was kind of a dumbass?

 

There's another scenario here besides the two you posed: It's not implausible that Ernie Adams said, "hey while you're there shooting that 'Do Your Job' video can you get some footage of the Bengals sideline?". 

 

I think we are being realistic. Realistically, what would you need 8 minutes of footage of the Bengals sideline for and why didn't the advanced scout stop the dumbass cameraman? The reason it was only 8 minutes and not longer, by the way, is because that's when the Bengals staffer stopped him. They got caught again and in a way too funny coincidence, one of the prepared excuses they were told to use during spygate was that they were shooting a team doc. Any other team this is not a big deal, but the Patriots lost that benefit of the doubt a long long time ago and they've earned this reputation for many real and proven instances of unnecessary chicanery that goes back over a decade.

 

 

Quote

And if they were going to try this, and be relatively blatant about it, why would they do the Bengals and not the Ravens or the Chiefs, who they'd play again in the playoffs?

 

Could be any one of these  

Worst case scenario: They cheat against everyone and they've already cheated against the Chiefs and Ravens.

Middle case scenario: The Bengals have a new coach that Belichick hasn't cheated against yet so he needed new intel. 

Best case scenario: The Bengals happened to be the next team on the schedule when the production crew decided to shoot the advance scout footage so it was a convenient time to get some cheat footage. 

 

 

Quote

By all means, fine the team for someone on the Kraft Productions team being this stupid and for not getting the Bengals permission as well, hell, fine the scout for not keeping an eye on the camera guy, but this is a goddamn reach even for this thread's standards.

 

Not only should every win since 2000 be vacated, but I think everyone who's ever played for, coached, owned, or cheered for the Patriots over the last 19 years should have to spend a minimum 6 years in maximum security prison. That's a reach.

 

Questioning why staffers would shoot 8 minutes of sideline footage, a team who's been guilty of this before? Not a reach.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mania said:

I know the Pats aren't popular here, but let's be realistic.

 

Would it be more likely that they would fake a documentary series, produce several episodes, get permission from a team they've already played this season(who were not suspicious at all), dress in team gear, just to spy on a 1-12 team that is trying to lose and would likely put their playcalls on the jumbo-tron if asked.... or that in making a fluff PR docu series, the camera guy was kind of a dumbass?

 

And if they were going to try this, and be relatively blatant about it, why would they do the Bengals and not the Ravens or the Chiefs, who they'd play again in the playoffs?

 

By all means, fine the team for someone on the Kraft Productions team being this stupid and for not getting the Bengals permission as well, hell, fine the scout for not keeping an eye on the camera guy, but this is a goddamn reach even for this thread's standards.

 

Honestly? I think it's a Kansas City Shuffle. Get caught in the dumbest way possible filming the worst team possible, avoid a ton of scrutiny for filming a team much much better than the Bengals in a more covert way in a game with much higher stakes. I'm talking like going to the Super Bowl higher stakes.

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Keep in mind that the first report was "the entire first quarter", which was a bold faced lie by people with ESPN. Now, the unofficial report is it's 8 minutes.  Now, if that number even holds, which again, given the way this :censored: gets reported, I have my doubts on... that would not be 8 minutes of clock ticking off. That would be including breaks during commercial breaks, gaps in play when the' clock's dead, etc. This is...maybe a series? (Honestly, I went to game pass to look, but even in their full replay, they cut a lot of that :censored: out). If the scout is doing his job, during a first series, he's probably not looking over at the camera. They're oblivious, shooting what he's looking at. It's either one dumbass camera guy or the dumbest, most blatant :censored:ing front office in the history of the NFL.

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3 hours ago, mania said:

I know the Pats aren't popular here, but let's be realistic.

 

Would it be more likely that they would fake a documentary series, produce several episodes, get permission from a team they've already played this season(who were not suspicious at all), dress in team gear, just to spy on a 1-12 team that is trying to lose and would likely put their playcalls on the jumbo-tron if asked.... or that in making a fluff PR docu series, the camera guy was kind of a dumbass?

 

but this is a goddamn reach even for this thread's standards.

 

FWIW, I have over 20 years of experience professionally shooting sports video of HS football and basketball, college football and basketball, MiLB, and non-sports related documentaries and commercials. In all those years, never once did I linger on a single shot of a football sideline (or anything else for that matter) for eight minutes just to get B-roll. There is simply no reason to do that. A six part documentary wouldn't need eight minutes of that type of B-roll. Add in that the Pats have a history with this type of thing and I don't think it's a reach at all to think there was more going on than simple B-roll. 

 

EDIT: I should add that I don't hate the Patriots. I don't have strong feelings on the team one way or the other. My opinion on this isn't coming from a place of "Ha, I hate those guys. :censored: them. They got caught again and I couldn't be happier about it." All I'm doing is looking at it from the perspective of someone who has worked in TV and video production. From that perspective, eight minutes of B-roll of the sideline makes no sense. 

 

DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION EDIT: There is one scenario that makes sense. If the Pats were going to show the Bengals signaling plays in a documentary about the Patriots then I guess the Pats would need plenty of footage showing Bengals coaches signaling plays. My guess is that the Bengals would not agree to that being a part of the series. That said, I'd be willing to buy the "we wanted to show them signaling plays" excuse over the absurd "eight minutes of B-roll" excuse. 

 

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