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The more I think about the Peters trade, the more I think it’s a great move for the Ravens. A Ravens film guy I trust called him a high risk, high reward corner, which certainly seems accurate based on how he’s gotten toasted in the past. That being said? Like I said in my previous post, he’s an obvious upgrade on what the Ravens had in the secondary. 
 

What really seals this as a great deal though in my eyes is what we gave up (or didn’t). Kenny Young had a great rookie season but fell hard and was clearly in the doghouse, hadn’t played on defense in two games (had a few ST snaps against Pittsburgh). And the pick we gave up was the one we fleeced Minnesota for in exchange for a kicker that was kinda okay in preseason. So you essentially gave up nothing to get an upgrade in an area of need. Yes please. 

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7 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Anyone remember when the Jags were in the AFC Championship recently? 

Must have just been a crazy dream. 

 

I remember it well. Myles Jack wasn't down and some home town Patriots officiating handed them the game and everybody knows it. We should be sitting here going "remember when the Jags were in the Super Bowl recently?"

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3 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

I remember it well. Myles Jack wasn't down and some home town Patriots officiating handed them the game. We should be sitting here going "remember when the Jags were in the Super Bowl recently?"

Or they you know, shouldn’t have given up a 3rd & 18. 

 

Not it the Refs fault defense choked & failed to make adjustments. 

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9 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Or they you know, shouldn’t have given up a 3rd & 18. 

 

Not it the Refs fault defense choked & failed to make adjustments. 

 

That's such a baby Pats fan response. Don't be that guy. We just talked about this - It's hard enough to win in the NFL, much less on the road in the playoffs, you shouldn't have to stop a team twice because the officials botched the obvious call. It is "it the Refs fault defense choked & failed to make adjustments" because if they do their job then there's no 3rd and 18 after that. That's a fact. Just admit you should've lost to the Jags and you got lucky. Do all of Patriots fans a favor and admit you should've lost to the Jags and you got lucky. 

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30 minutes ago, Crabcake47 said:

The more I think about the Peters trade, the more I think it’s a great move for the Ravens. A Ravens film guy I trust called him a high risk, high reward corner, which certainly seems accurate based on how he’s gotten toasted in the past. That being said? Like I said in my previous post, he’s an obvious upgrade on what the Ravens had in the secondary. 
 

What really seals this as a great deal though in my eyes is what we gave up (or didn’t). Kenny Young had a great rookie season but fell hard and was clearly in the doghouse, hadn’t played on defense in two games (had a few ST snaps against Pittsburgh). And the pick we gave up was the one we fleeced Minnesota for in exchange for a kicker that was kinda okay in preseason. So you essentially gave up nothing to get an upgrade in an area of need. Yes please. 

 

You are correct on this, but don't say I didn't warn you. Also, Brandon Carr is still in the league?! That is surprising. 

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1 hour ago, McCarthy said:

 

That's such a baby Pats fan response. Don't be that guy. We just talked about this - It's hard enough to win in the NFL, much less on the road in the playoffs, you shouldn't have to stop a team twice because the officials botched the obvious call. It is "it the Refs fault defense choked & failed to make adjustments" because if they do their job then there's no 3rd and 18 after that. That's a fact. Just admit you should've lost to the Jags and you got lucky. Do all of Patriots fans a favor and admit you should've lost to the Jags and you got lucky. 

There’s a difference between something like that Jags-Pats game where it was one blown call in the middle of the game, and what happened in the Lions-Packers the other night when it was 2 obvious wrong calls at the end of the game that didn’t even give the other team possession. 

Jags had plenty of chances to win despite that call. Lions didn’t. 

 

Do the Pats get the benefit of the refs? I won’t deny that. But to say that’s why they won or they should have lost is such a childish patriots-hating excuse. 

It’s also disingenuous to the effort the Patriots put in to win, and the mistakes the Jags made to lose the game. 

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1 hour ago, Red Comet said:

 

You are correct on this, but don't say I didn't warn you. Also, Brandon Carr is still in the league?! That is surprising. 

Brandon Carr continues the Proud Ravens Tradition of standing 10-15 yards off of every receiver. 1st and 10? 15 yards off. 3rd and 5? 10 yards off. It never fails. Every game the opposing offense gets a few easy completions on Carr which just makes me shake my head. Once Jimmy Smith comes back, Carr will be the fourth cornerback, which is ideal. 
 

Saw a tweet listing every QB drafted in the Top 5 since 2006. In general, it’s not pretty. 
 

Quote

Kyler Murray - too early to tell but looks promising
Baker Mayfield - too early but warning signs

Sam Darnold - jury’s still out

Mitchell Trubisky - still kind of early but not looking good compared to fellow draft class members

Jared Goff - looked good with McVay early but needs to step up to justify his contract

Carson Wentz - great when healthy

Jameis Winston - bust

Marcus Mariota - bust

Blake Bortles - bust

Andrew Luck - elite but retired early

RGIII - could’ve been great, Washington ruined him

Cam Newton - franchise QB but looks past his prime

Sam Bradford - bust

Matthew Stafford - franchise QB that took the Lions from embarrassing to mediocre

Mark Sanchez - butt fumble

Matt Ryan - elite

JaMarcus Russell - no words necessary

Vince Young - bust

From Winston down (aka the QB’s that it’s not too early to make the call on), 8/12 were busts or disappointments. Only Luck, Newton, Stafford, and Ryan turned out well. Yeesh. 

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45 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

There’s a difference between something like that Jags-Pats game where it was one blown call in the middle of the game,

 "middle of the game", 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter with a 17 point lead. Yeah totally the same thing. 

 

Quote

and what happened in the Lions-Packers the other night when it was 2 obvious wrong calls at the end of the game that didn’t even give the other team possession. 

Jags had plenty of chances to win despite that call. Lions didn’t. 


So a bad call that impacts the game regardless of where it happens is okay if the Patriots opponent has enough time to overcome both the Patriots and the officials, but if a bad cal happens at the very end of the game and the Patriots aren't involved then it's not okay? A. The Lions and Packers game have nothing to do with the 2017 AFCCG, but the Packers similarly benefit from bad officiating in the same way. The Lions routinely see the boned end of the stick. B. This is what you're not getting - The Jags shouldn't need "plenty of chances to win despite that call." They did what they had to do, but bonehead officials kept the patriots in the game. The Lions also did what they had to do. If it's called correctly the Patriots likely don't win that game. You know this. 

 

 

Quote

Do the Pats get the benefit of the refs? I won’t deny that. But to say that’s why they won or they should have lost is such a childish patriots-hating excuse. 

 

No it isn't. It was a 10 point swing thanks to that one call. If it was any other team I'd have the same reaction. That you're defending it is only out of childish Patriots homerism. Do all of Pats fans a favor and admit you only won because you got lucky on that call. You're making them all look bad. 

 

Quote

It’s also disingenuous to the effort the Patriots put in to win, and the mistakes the Jags made to lose the game. 

 

It's not disingenuous to point out that being up 17 points at that point is better than being up 10. The "effort the Patriots put in to win" only got to put in that effort and the mistakes the Jags made to lose the game only happened because the Patriots were gifted that bad call. 

 

IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO BEAT THE PATRIOTS WITHOUT THEM GETTING HELP FROM THE OFFICIALS WHICH THEY :censored:ING DID. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

There’s a difference between something like that Jags-Pats game where it was one blown call in the middle of the game, and what happened in the Lions-Packers the other night when it was 2 obvious wrong calls at the end of the game that didn’t even give the other team possession. 

Jags had plenty of chances to win despite that call. Lions didn’t. 

 

Do the Pats get the benefit of the refs? I won’t deny that. But to say that’s why they won or they should have lost is such a childish patriots-hating excuse. 

It’s also disingenuous to the effort the Patriots put in to win, and the mistakes the Jags made to lose the game. 

 

Except in a playoff game, every single call matters, and asking teams to come back from clear momentum killers is sometimes a bridge too far. That's the whole point.

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Imagine for a moment the Astros get 3 outs in an inning, but for some reason the umps make the Astros get 4 outs. Something stupid like "didn't see the third out". Is it the Astros fault if the next Yankee up hits a home run? No, they shouldn't have been in that position at all. That's what happens in football all the time. The officials blow something, makes the defense make an extra stop, and then when they don't make it knuckleheads go "well they had a chance to make the stop soooo". They shouldn't have had to in the first place! Why do we only do this when it comes to football? 

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18 minutes ago, McCarthy said:
53 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

 

 "middle of the game", 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter with a 17 point lead. Yeah totally the same thing. 

Are we pretending that’s not enough time to get a stop? 

 

20 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

So a bad call that impacts the game regardless of where it happens is okay if the Patriots opponent has enough time to overcome both the Patriots and the officials, but if a bad cal happens at the very end of the game and the Patriots aren't involved then it's not okay? A. The Lions and Packers game have nothing to do with the 2017 AFCCG, but the Packers similarly benefit from bad officiating in the same way. The Lions routinely see the boned end of the stick. B. This is what you're not getting - The Jags shouldn't need "plenty of chances to win despite that call." They did what they had to do, but bonehead officials kept the patriots in the game. The Lions also did what they had to do. If it's called correctly the Patriots likely don't win that game. You know this. 

If Jacksonville “did what they had to do” they wouldn’t have blown a 17 point lead. Blaming that on a bad officiating call is just ignorant. 

Jags had plenty of chances to get a stop. That’s on them, not the officials. 

Unlike the Lions, whom did everything right, and still got punished for it with 2 completely incorrect calls. The last east of which completely prevented them from getting the ball back. 

 

25 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

No it isn't. It was a 10 point swing thanks to that one call. If it was any other team I'd have the same reaction. That you're defending it is only out of childish Patriots homerism. Do all of Pats fans a favor and admit you only won because you got lucky on that call. You're making them all look bad. 

Patriots won because Jags went into Zone D (which Brady carves up) and couldn’t get stop when they needed it, after containing them all game. Blaming the loss on 1 missed call is such a damn cop-out. 

No hometown about it. You’re just failing to understand the context of those games. 

35 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

It's not disingenuous to point out that being up 17 points at that point is better than being up 10. The "effort the Patriots put in to win" only got to put in that effort and the mistakes the Jags made to lose the game only happened because the Patriots were gifted that bad call. 

 

IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO BEAT THE PATRIOTS WITHOUT THEM GETTING HELP FROM THE OFFICIALS WHICH THEY :censored:ING DID. 

No, it’s not the Refs fault Jags couldn’t get a stop on a 3rd & 18. Jacksonville had plenty of chances to either stop the patriots, or get another score to put it the game out of reach. 

 

That’s not on the refs. That’s on the Jags. 

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42 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

 

Except in a playoff game, every single call matters, and asking teams to come back from clear momentum killers is sometimes a bridge too far. That's the whole point.

Bad calls are always going to happen. It’s called human error. 

It’s just more egregious sometimes (Lions-Packers, Saints-Rams), than others. 

 

And what about when they are correct calls? 

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1 hour ago, McCarthy said:

Imagine for a moment the Astros get 3 outs in an inning, but for some reason the umps make the Astros get 4 outs. Something stupid like "didn't see the third out". Is it the Astros fault if the next Yankee up hits a home run? No, they shouldn't have been in that position at all. That's what happens in football all the time. The officials blow something, makes the defense make an extra stop, and then when they don't make it knuckleheads go "well they had a chance to make the stop soooo". They shouldn't have had to in the first place! Why do we only do this when it comes to football? 

More apt comparison would be like the Nats-Cardinals game last night. 

Down 7-4 Based loaded, full count, 2 outs. 

But instead the Ump pulls an Angel Hernandez and calls a ball a strike, ending the inning. 

 

98% of the time, you shouldn’t blame the refs for a team losing. 

The Lions-Packers is an example of that 2%. 

The Pat-Jags are not. 

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1 hour ago, AustinFomBoston said:

More apt comparison would be like the Nats-Cardinals game last night. 

Down 7-4 Based loaded, full count, 2 outs. 

But instead the Ump pulls an Angel Hernandez and calls a ball a strike, ending the inning. 

 

That's non-equivalent. This would make sense if the Cardinals had been leading 7-4 and in the middle of a home run ball's flight path that would've put the game out of reach, the umpire called the play dead for no good reason and then the trailing team used the unfairly delivered opportunity to comeback and win.

 

1 hour ago, AustinFomBoston said:

98% of the time, you shouldn’t blame the refs for a team losing. 

The Lions-Packers is an example of that 2%. 

The Pat-Jags are not. 

 

Yeah it is. The fumble happened when the Jags were up 10. Jack returns it for a touchdown like he would've and it's a 17 point lead. Patriots won by 4. It was the difference between the Jags winning and losing. Why's this hard? 

 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Are we pretending that’s not enough time to get a stop? 

 

If Jacksonville “did what they had to do” they wouldn’t have blown a 17 point lead. Blaming that on a bad officiating call is just ignorant. 

They didn't blow a 17 point lead. They lost a 10 point lead that should've been 17 after the refs gifted the Pats those 7 points. They did what they had to do and the officials forced them to make extra plays, which when playing the Patriots is an unfair ask. It's like asking a major league baseball team to get 4 outs, WHICH IS WHY I USED THAT EXAMPLE. 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Jags had plenty of chances to get a stop. That’s on them, not the officials. 

THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED TO GET ANOTHER STOP IF THE OFFICIALS HAD DONE THEIR JOB. It's on the officials. It's always on the officials. 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Unlike the Lions, whom did everything right, and still got punished for it with 2 completely incorrect calls. The last east of which completely prevented them from getting the ball back. 

 

Patriots won because Jags went into Zone D (which Brady carves up) and couldn’t get stop when they needed it, after containing them all game. Blaming the loss on 1 missed call is such a damn cop-out. 

 

The Patriots won because instead of facing a 3 possession lead with 10 minutes left they only had to deal with a two possession lead. The next time the Patriots lose on some similar nonsense I'll expect you to be quiet about it. 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

No hometown about it. You’re just failing to understand the context of those games. 

 

Myles Jack picks up a fumble, isn't touched, falls down, ref incorrectly blows the whistle dead. In what context am I not understanding this? 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

No, it’s not the Refs fault Jags couldn’t get a stop on a 3rd & 18.

 

Yes it is because that play should've never happened. 

 

2 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Jacksonville had plenty of chances to either stop the patriots, or get another score to put it the game out of reach. 

 

That’s not on the refs. That’s on the Jags. 

 

It's on the refs. The Jags were hosed. Sorry that rocks your world. The good news is justice was served in the Super Bowl that time. 

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23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

That's non-equivalent. This would make sense if the Cardinals had been leading 7-4 and in the middle of a home run ball's flight path that would've put the game out of reach, the umpire called the play dead for no good reason and then the trailing team used the unfairly delivered opportunity to comeback and win.

No good reason? He thought he was down by contract. Which is easy to believe when you first look at it. 

And refs blowing plays like that dead have been a problem not limited to the patriots. 

23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Yeah it is. The fumble happened when the Jags were up 10. Jack returns it for a touchdown like he would've and it's a 17 point lead. Patriots won by 4. It was the difference between the Jags winning and losing. Why's this hard? 

And then the Patriots end up scoring 20, what’s your excuse then? 

Again, Jacksonville had more than enough chances to win that game despite the call. 

Blaming it all on 1 blown call is just petty. 

 

23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Myles Jack picks up a fumble, isn't touched, falls down, ref incorrectly blows the whistle dead. In what context am I not understanding this? 

 

The fact that in the Lions-Packers game, The Lions never got a chance to respond after that last flag. 

Meanwhile Jags had 10 minutes to stop Brady from score 10 points, in game their defense was dominate. 

23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Yes it is because that play should've never happened. 

But it’s the Refs fault they couldn’t stop the Patriots when they were still leading after that? 

 

I take it it’s also 100% the Refs fault KC lost last year too? No, blaming their Defence would make far too much sense. 

23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

It's on the refs. The Jags were hosed. Sorry that rocks your world. The good news is justice was served in the Super Bowl that time. 

Sounds like you’re just being petty and would rather use the refs as an excuse for the Jags losing a game they had plenty of opportunities to win. 

 

If You’re going to blame the loss on 1 bad call,  you didn’t deserve to win anyway. 

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One day the Pats will stop getting every 50/50 call and I expect their fans to handle that with the grace and humility they handle every piece of information that isn't 100 percent positive for that franchise.

 

I'm so old I remember when Bob Kraft was getting illegal handjobs from people likely sex trafficked and then everyone shrugged because we are Onto Football.

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1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

One day the Pats will stop getting every 50/50 call and I expect their fans to handle that with the grace and humility they handle every piece of information that isn't 100 percent positive for that franchise.

 

I'm so old I remember when Bob Kraft was getting illegal handjobs from people likely sex trafficked and then everyone shrugged because we are Onto Football.

oF5a2QZ.jpg

 

Bob Kraft needed this to have even more of a personal meaning to him.  Both Saturday and Sunday before the AFC Championship Game.

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21 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

And I'm old enough to remember when people would be laughed at for blaming the refs for their team losing.

My how times have changed. 

That was before poor officiating has gotten so out of hand. Before you’d maybe have one controversial call That potentially change a game every couple of weeks, now it’s Multiple calls every week, in multiple games. The officiating has gotten worse. The Mack play did alter the game. The penalties against the lions gave the packers a win. It’s not worth arguing about because they are in the past. What we need to focus on is how to improve things in the future. My idea is to of course improve training for referees, also everything should be challengable, when plays do get challenged they go to an independent replay official who makes his decision based on what he sees regardless of what the initial call was. Part of the problem with the current rule is that to change a call it needs to be clear and obvious, well when the a referee who made a call is going to have a bias as to what he sees, and a replay official who is a part of the referees union is going to side with his union partner, the replay official shouldn’t even come from the NFL because then that opens up all kind of conspiracy scenarios of the league rigging games. A completely independent arbiter trained to know the exact rules the league uses who’s sole job is review any and all plays Across the league that are challenged. Touchdowns and turn overs can be reviewed the traditional way.

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Personally, I think every flag should be reviewed after the 2 minute warning. Especially in close games like Lions-Packers that end up deciding the outcome.  

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