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A city deserving one particular sport

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36 minutes ago, Bowski said:

As for the overall "Ponzi" nature of the MLS, I'd definitely say its a team-by-team basis and really depends on the market.

 

Then by definition it cannot be a Ponzi scheme. 

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Re MLS:

 

I went to zero DC United games at RFK, I didn't follow United at all until last summer.  But then they got Audi Field and Wayne Rooney and I've fully jumped on the bandwagon!  The stadium is great, the atmosphere is fun, I've been to half a dozen games there already.  The location isn't perfect, but it's close enough to Nats Park, the metro, bars, and restaurants.  That whole area is really developing and Audi Field is contributing to that.

 

Now, when Rooney is gone and the team stinks will the stadium still get packed?  TBD.  But they've made a fan out of me, and I hardly think I'm the only Johnny-come-lately, so I think the stadium/Rooney investment has paid off.

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2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Then by definition it cannot be a Ponzi scheme. 

 

 

I think we've muddied the definition of a Ponzi Scheme in this thread, and no I don't think MLS is one, and they're actually probably the only ethical league in the USA. I really don't ever see them hustle cities the way the big four do, and as far as I know, most of their stadiums are mostly or wholly privately funded. 

 

I'd like to clear up how we're describing shady (fraudulent) tactics by leagues and teams; if they don't exist and never do, it's a Ponzi Scheme, if they do exist just don't deliver what's promised, it's a hustle. 

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18 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I admit that I did not perceive either San Jose or Nashville as warm-weather locations, though a check of the weather data shows that neither has an average winter low below freezing.  I think of San Jose as close to San Francisco, which is a city that I associate with cold.  (There is the great comment attributed to Mark Twain, perhaps apocryphally, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." )  And I probably should have included Nashville in my list; though it doesn't seem as extreme as Las Vegas or Phoenix or cities in Florida or Texas.

 

This definitely isn't wrong. San Francisco gets the brunt of those Pacific wind patterns due to the Golden Gate. You get into the East Bay and it's usually up to 20 degrees warmer during the summer because the bay kind of protects the cities inland. I remember there being a "heat wave" (It was probably high 90s, if that) when I was a kid living in Castro Valley and we crossed the bridge into the city to get some "relief". 

 

The Bay Area has an absolutely awesome climate mostly because of the diversity of it. Add the low humidity during the summer and it's really hard to beat.  

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23 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

This definitely isn't wrong. San Francisco gets the brunt of those Pacific wind patterns due to  the Golden Gate. You get into the East Bay and it's usually up to 20 degrees warmer during the summer because the bay kind of protects the cities inland. I remember there being a "heat wave" (It was probably high 90s, if that) when I was a kid living in Castro Valley and we crossed the bridge into the city to get some "relief". 

The Oakland and Berkeley Hills basically trap the fog from traveling east.  The 90 second drive through the Caldecott Tunnel from Oakland to Orinda the temperature climbs at least five degrees and in the dry season, there is much less green. Drive further east, the warmer and dryer it gets. Same can be said driving on 238 from Hayward to Dublin, but with no tunnel, just 13 miles of highway.

Gotta love microclimates.

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1 minute ago, dfwabel said:

The Oakland and Berkeley Hills basically trap the fog from traveling east.  The 90 second drive through the Caldecott Tunnel from Oakland to Orinda the temperature climbs at least five degrees and in the dry season, there is much less green. Drive further east, the warmer and dryer it gets. Same can be said driving on 238 from Hayward to Dublin, but with no tunnel, just 13 miles of highway.

Gotta love microclimates.

 

One of my absolute favorite spots in this area is that small stretch of Highway 12 between Fairfield/Suisun City and Rio Vista. It's a beautiful area that shows the contrast between the cooler more hilly, coastal climate and the valley. It's just this big stretch of dry land in between the more lush parts of the area near the rivers and the Sacramento–San Joaquin River Delta. 

 

We live in such a cool state when it comes to geographic diversity. 

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5 hours ago, Bowski said:

 

^Really Frisco is booming that much? I haven't been down to Toyota Stadium since 2007, and I remember it being not too developed then, but if it is now, I guess I should go check out the stadium again.

 

As for the overall "Ponzi" nature of the MLS, I'd definitely say its a team-by-team basis and really depends on the market.

 

The new Dallas Cowboys practice facility is extremely nice. 

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2 hours ago, Bowski said:

 

 

I think we've muddied the definition of a Ponzi Scheme in this thread, and no I don't think MLS is one, and they're actually probably the only ethical league in the USA. I really don't ever see them hustle cities the way the big four do, and as far as I know, most of their stadiums are mostly or wholly privately funded. 

 

I'd like to clear up how we're describing shady (fraudulent) tactics by leagues and teams; if they don't exist and never do, it's a Ponzi Scheme, if they do exist just don't deliver what's promised, it's a hustle. 

It is about 50/50.  For every San Jose and St. Paul built privately, you get an Atlanta and Nashville.

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Atlanta is mostly due to the NFL, though.   I’d lay that one at the feet of gridiron football.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

Atlanta is mostly due to the NFL, though.   I’d lay that one at the feet of gridiron football.

This is from July 2016, compiled by Marquette University's Sports Law Institute in terms of Canada and US soccer facilities at every level.

 

EDIT: There is a 2018 update, but instead of a direct link, here is the Institute's 2018 page so anybody interested can see every sport they've researched. 

Edited by dfwabel
Second link added

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So maybe a dumb question but why is there such a wanting for the MLB to return to Montreal? I know the brand is popular and all that but from what I recall, the Expos played in a venue that wasn't great, the on field product wasn't great and fans were not coming to games. With the NHL and the Jets, the Thrashers were moving to a hockey mad market that wanted a team back badly and they have not disappointed at the gates. For Montreal, I don't see a baseball mad market that wants a team that badly. Would it be a smart decision to move a mediocre team that struggles to win to a market that seems to be luke warm for baseball to return? Olympic Stadium would be temporary and I would imagine a new stadium would be built. I know they packed Olympic Stadium for the few Jays games they had there in the pre-season but can you really use that as an indication that a market wants a team?

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I don't know that there is much of a desire, certainly not relative to the concerted efforts that got Winnipeg a team back and are ongoing for the Nordiques and Supersonics. Nor is there a civil war among fans over Montreal like there is in hockey, where there are regular knock-down-drag-outs between those who deeply want the league back up north and those who reflexively hate the notion and will cape for any market where you can wear shorts in February.

 

I think there's a loose coalition of Blue Jays fans who want a rival that's not New York and Boston stomping on their face forever, people exasperated with the St. Pete situation, people who want to go to road games in a city of culture and light debauchery without having to go to Olympic Stadium, and general nostalgics, but it's not the kind of situation where people have been banging this drum nonstop since October 2004. And you can't really fault French Canadians for being apprehensive about this half-to-full return for the Expos; the province just built what would be one of the finest arenas in the NHL only to be told that it would inconvenience the Red Wings too much for anyone to ever occupy it. And when was the last time baseball dealt with Montreal in good faith? It wasn't when the '03 Expos weren't allowed September call-ups, it wasn't when a third of their games got moved to San Juan, it wasn't when Loria moved everything that wasn't nailed down to Miami and left the organization basically only existing on paper, it wasn't when the strike killed the '94 team, on and on.

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On 7/13/2019 at 8:32 PM, Dolphins Dynasty said:

Football to San Diego.

 

Or Hockey

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On 7/15/2019 at 8:53 AM, Quillz said:

Anchorage should have a NHL team. City is growing to the south, plenty of space to put in an open-air rink. Borrow the SeaWolves identity, always loved that logo.

 

I'm in Anchorage right now.

 

No. This city is weird and unsettling. Twin Peaks should have been set here instead of outside of Seattle.

 

I get why people stay here; I don't know why anyone would come though.

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6 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

 

I'm in Anchorage right now.

 

No. This city is weird and unsettling. Twin Peaks should have been set here instead of outside of Seattle.

 

I get why people stay here; I don't know why anyone would come though.

 

Anchorage is basically a more isolated Reno without the gaming. 

 

In other words, yeah. Same here. 

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To be honest, AAF did provide alot of opportunities for most of players to prove their worth to NFL scouts and they did put the teams in cities which they could have had pro football teams. Birmingham, San Deigo, San Antonio, Salt Lake City and Memphis. I absolutely wish that NFL went on and adopted all 8 teams into the league immediately to form a 40-teams league. They could relocate 3 teams (Legends to Louisville, Hotshots to either Oakland or Sacramento, and Apollos to St. Louis to be renamed as Archers with same logo) 

 

Now that's the dream league..... shame that AAF folded and they had best logos and beautiful uniforms! Such wastes....

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17 minutes ago, JMtexan09 said:

To be honest, AAF did provide alot of opportunities for most of players to prove their worth to NFL scouts and they did put the teams in cities which they could have had pro football teams. Birmingham, San Deigo, San Antonio, Salt Lake City and Memphis. I absolutely wish that NFL went on and adopted all 8 teams into the league immediately to form a 40-teams league. They could relocate 3 teams (Legends to Louisville, Hotshots to either Oakland or Sacramento, and Apollos to St. Louis to be renamed as Archers with same logo) 

 

Now that's the dream league..... shame that AAF folded and they had best logos and beautiful uniforms! Such wastes....

 

One of the issues is that the AAF followed the trope of every single spring league by having teams in Birmingham, San Antonio, Orlando and Memphis.  Sure San Antonio and Orlando did well, but spring leagues always go to those cities (and Las Vegas for a while).  It's why I was a fan of the XFL's new approach when it came to cities. 

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On 7/12/2019 at 7:42 PM, Gothamite said:

Milwaukee should have MLS.  USL championship at the very least.  They have the oldest professional soccer club in the country, and multiple amateur/youth sides that go back to the 1920s.  There’s a huge soccer scene there, with no professional representation. 

I mean, if Yankee Stadium can have MLS soccer, why not Miller Park? I’ll give up my dedication to MNUFC for a Milwaukee Club any day.

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22 hours ago, JMtexan09 said:

To be honest, AAF did provide alot of opportunities for most of players to prove their worth to NFL scouts and they did put the teams in cities which they could have had pro football teams. Birmingham, San Deigo, San Antonio, Salt Lake City and Memphis. I absolutely wish that NFL went on and adopted all 8 teams into the league immediately to form a 40-teams league. They could relocate 3 teams (Legends to Louisville, Hotshots to either Oakland or Sacramento, and Apollos to St. Louis to be renamed as Archers with same logo) 

 

Now that's the dream league..... shame that AAF folded and they had best logos and beautiful uniforms! Such wastes....

 

A dream league... full of markets that can't support NFL football.  If there was money to be made in Birmingham or SLC or Louisville, there would be NFL football there.

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