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2019 NHL Thread

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I agree with @Ridleylash that incompetent management is probably what doomed the Thrashers, and that under perfect conditions hockey in Atlanta would make more money than hockey in Winnipeg. That said, having the Jets is a much better thing for the league than the Thrashers. Those perfect conditions will never happen in Atlanta while Winnipeg has a ton more wiggle room because of a less crowded professional sports market and a much bigger passion for hockey. I'm not against hockey in the South, but certain teams just aren't working well. Arizona, Atlanta (while it existed), and Carolina all have their fair share of issues (as did the Predators for a while), and I think you could reasonably get rid of one of the two Florida franchises. Ideally, you'd be able to place them in large markets while spacing them out (and this might venture into Pointless Realignment) - Take the 6 Southern teams (Coyotes, Stars, Predators, Lightning, Hurricanes, Panthers) and spread them out nicely - Stars stay in Dallas, one team in Atlanta, one in Charlotte, one in Miami to cover all of Florida, one in Quebec, and one in Nashville. There, problem solved. Hockey lives in the SE but the NHL cuts out floundering markets like Arizona and Raleigh. 

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4 minutes ago, QCS said:

I agree with @Ridleylash that incompetent management is probably what doomed the Thrashers, and that under perfect conditions hockey in Atlanta would make more money than hockey in Winnipeg. That said, having the Jets is a much better thing for the league than the Thrashers. Those perfect conditions will never happen in Atlanta while Winnipeg has a ton more wiggle room because of a less crowded professional sports market and a much bigger passion for hockey. I'm not against hockey in the South, but certain teams just aren't working well. Arizona, Atlanta (while it existed), and Carolina all have their fair share of issues (as did the Predators for a while), and I think you could reasonably get rid of one of the two Florida franchises. Ideally, you'd be able to place them in large markets while spacing them out (and this might venture into Pointless Realignment) - Take the 6 Southern teams (Coyotes, Stars, Predators, Lightning, Hurricanes, Panthers) and spread them out nicely - Stars stay in Dallas, one team in Atlanta, one in Charlotte, one in Miami to cover all of Florida, one in Quebec, and one in Nashville. There, problem solved. Hockey lives in the SE but the NHL cuts out floundering markets like Arizona and Raleigh. 

 

You want to move one of the Florida teams and your choice is the one that earns more revenue and sells out every night for the past four or five years?

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We're veering into Pointless Realignment territory at this point, but I'd agree on the Panthers being way more expendable than the Lightning.

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2 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

You want to move one of the Florida teams and your choice is the one that earns more revenue and sells out every night for the past four or five years?

 

Just now, Ridleylash said:

We're veering into Pointless Realignment territory at this point, but I'd agree on the Panthers being way more expendable than the Lightning.

That was "perfect world" scenario, in real life of course the Lightning would stay. I'd rather have a team in Miami because of market size but the Lightning's success and, you know, actually earning money would have them stick around.

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37 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

I think the bigger thing for Winnipeg is that it's run competently. You don't constantly hear stories of Thomson, Chipman et al. being at each other's throats, so there's clearly a lot more stability in management than the Thrashers ever had.

 

The Lightning and Predators have some of the loudest buildings in the league and have successfully made their markets into viable hockey cities because they finally found themselves under competent management with a solid plan to build a competitive franchise. Atlanta, given better circumstances, may have been the same; we'll probably never know.

Most markets of Atlanta's size should be at the very least viable for a Big Four league to have a team in; but when you get a lame duck franchise with an ownership group that's so utterly and completely disdainful of the team that they purposefully poisoned the well just to get it out of town, you'd have a hard go of any market where hockey isn't deeply-ingrained.

 

You're also not going to draw new fans in to the league in a non-traditional southern market with a lousy team that's constantly on the outside of the playoffs. In the same expansion era as the Thrashers;

  • The Lightning and Ducks took four seasons to get above .500. Both made the playoffs in that fourth season, and both later made deep runs and won the Cup during the time the Thrashers were around.
  • The Senators tie the Thrashers at six seasons to get above .500, but they made the playoffs five years into their existence, two years ahead of the Thrashers. They also made deep runs multiple times during the time the Thrashers were around, including a Finals run against Anaheim the sole year the Thrashers even made the postseason.
  • The Hurricanes took two seasons to get above .500 and made the playoffs that second year. They won a Stanley Cup in 2006 and made the finals in 2002.
  • The Panthers took three seasons to get above .500. They promptly ran all the way to the Finals before the monster of Colorado took them out back. They also remained at least competitive for a good chunk of the time both teams overlapped. 
  • The Coyotes went six straight seasons at or above .500, and made the playoffs five times in that span. That's four more times than the Thrashers at half the timespan.
  • The Predators tied the Thrashers and Senators at six seasons before a .500 record. They also made the playoffs six times during the Thrashers' existence.
  • The Wild took three seasons to get above .500 and promptly took a run to the Conference Finals their first year over .500.
  • The Blue Jackets are the only team from that round of expansion to have a longer wait to an over .500 record than the Thrashers at nine seasons. They still made the playoffs the same amount of times during the time both overlapped.

 

The Thrashers are a great tale of just how badly completely inept or malicious management can destroy a team.

To the Bold! Agreed 100%
The Pittsburgh Pirates are a prime example of this.
- Ownership that refuse to spend money
- Constantly cry "Small Market" despite other "Small Market" Teams in the League (hell even within their own Division) that manage to spend more than the Pirates
- Blame the FANS for not showing up, then Attaching Team Payroll to Ticket Sales (telling Fans that Team Payroll will only Go Up when Ticket Sales Go Up). 2013, 2014, 2015 Ticket Sales went Up, team Payroll went marginally Up. 2016 Despite being on the Verge of something really good (Pirates made the Playoffs 3 years in a row after a 21 year Hiatus and 3 years worth of 30+ Thousand at games) Ownership SLASHED Payroll

Even my beloved Pens had Ownership / Management like this
- During the '70s the Pens would trade / give away 1st round picks for aging Veterans, yeah they made the Playoffs every now an then but....
- Start of the '80s was similar to the '70s, things started to change when they (cough cough  tanked  cough cough) Drafted Lemieux but...….
- '92 saw howard baldwin take ownership, most of you already know how I feel about that dirt bag

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1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

I think the bigger thing for Winnipeg is that it's run competently. You don't constantly hear stories of Thomson, Chipman et al. being at each other's throats, so there's clearly a lot more stability in management than the Thrashers ever had.

Or maybe- and I understand that this is a crazy notion for Sunbelters- Winnipeg, Manitoba has more hockey fans in its borders than Atlanta, Georgia does despite its smaller metro size and population.

 

1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

The Lightning and Predators have some of the loudest buildings in the league and have successfully made their markets into viable hockey cities because they finally found themselves under competent management with a solid plan to build a competitive franchise.

Lightning and Perds fans are among the NHL's most obnoxious fanbases. The Perds' fanbase has been covered here, but people really sleep on the sheer arrogance emanating from the Lightning fanbase. Especially for fans of a team quickly becoming Sharks East. 

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Pretty much rock bottom for Sabres fans. The rumor/theory reported on the radio is that Botterill was let go after being given the vote of confidence three weeks ago because he wasn't on board with "streamlining" the organization. This meshes with the firing of the Rochester GM and coaches today. Then, they bring in a new GM without interviews who (admittedly a former coach and player) didn't seem to be on the GM track. The owner's original business was fracking, and that can't be going too well right now. Ten years ago, he famously said that he wasn't buying the teams to make money, and if he wanted money, he would "go drill another well". Combine all that with the article a while back about the toxic culture at Pegula Sports & Entertainment and the deep cuts during covid time... it's bad. There's a 100% chance they set the record for longest playoff drought in NHL history.

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2 hours ago, IceCap said:

Lightning and Perds fans are among the NHL's most obnoxious fanbases. The Perds' fanbase has been covered here, but people really sleep on the sheer arrogance emanating from the Lightning fanbase. Especially for fans of a team quickly becoming Sharks East. 

 

With the Bolts I sorta get it, because they've been doing some insane drafting/development where they keep finding superstar players out of nowhere and then replacing them with more superstar players out of nowhere. It's the extreme arrogance of Hurricanes and Stars fans that I cannot and will not tolerate. CRAWL IN A HOLE AND DIE.

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https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-seattle-expansion-nickname-delayed/c-317191430

Quote

As for the team, Leiweke said plans to announce a name have been put off indefinitely and might not happen until fall as work continues on “a myriad of issues” related to trademarking. The team has begun initial design work on logos and uniforms for a variety of potential names. 

“If you do just one (name), then you’ve left yourself hostage to any sort of challenge,” he said, adding that every name of the thousand or so suggested by fans the past two years had some sort of trademark issue that needed working through. “So we’ve had to do multiple (trade)marks, and that’s about where we are.”

 

He added that the ongoing pandemic and police-brutality protests make it unlikely the team will make any major announcements in the near term.

“It’s not the right time,” Leiweke said, adding the team could wait until October. “Vegas did it a year out. We’ve got ample time, and the thing this organization will never be is tone deaf. So we’ve got to pick the right time, and we’ve got to make sure all of our ducks are in a row.”

 

So there's work done on the team branding, at least, but they're not finalized yet and they have an aim for the fall due to everything going on right now; and the arena opening's been delayed to anywhere from August to mid-September due to delays in acquiring building materials.

 

Something tells me the hockey gods have decided they have it in for Seattle already. 😛

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2 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-seattle-expansion-nickname-delayed/c-317191430

 

So there's work done on the team branding, at least, but they're not finalized yet and they have an aim for the fall due to everything going on right now; and the arena opening's been delayed to anywhere from August to mid-September due to delays in acquiring building materials.

 

Something tells me the hockey gods have decided they have it in for Seattle already. 😛

What a weird world we live in where hockey in Las Vegas starts out better than hockey in Seattle.

 

I'm telling you, man, that darn gorilla :censored:ed up the timeline somehow.

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4 minutes ago, QCS said:

I'm telling you, man, that darn gorilla :censored:ed up the timeline somehow.

No, it was LeBlock. 😜

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7 minutes ago, QCS said:

What a weird world we live in where hockey in Las Vegas starts out better than hockey in Seattle.


Well, Quebecor has a voodoo witch doctor on retainer. Seattle was more offense than Vegas, apparently.

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https://lactualite.com/societe/marcel-aubut-loffre-secrete-pour-garder-les-nordiques-a-quebec/

 

Quote

Denis De Belleval a le mandat de négocier lorsque Marcel Aubut se présente à son bureau pour la première fois, à l’été 1992. « Il est entré comme s’il possédait l’hôtel de ville, avec l’allure altière du prince à qui on doit tout, raconte De Belleval. Un quêteux à cheval. Il passe devant ma secrétaire, lui dit qu’elle a de beaux seins, entre dans mon bureau, s’assoit en face de moi et exige quatre millions de dollars par année en rabais de taxes municipales. Ça commençait mal. »

 

"He walks in front of my secretary, tells her she has nice boobs, walks into my office, and asks for $4 million a year" would be pathetic if not for the oddly endearing nature of Gallic horniness. Seulement en la maudite ligue nationale de hockey.

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5 hours ago, the admiral said:

https://lactualite.com/societe/marcel-aubut-loffre-secrete-pour-garder-les-nordiques-a-quebec/

 

 

"He walks in front of my secretary, tells her she has nice boobs, walks into my office, and asks for $4 million a year" would be pathetic if not for the oddly endearing nature of Gallic horniness. Seulement en la maudite ligue nationale de hockey.

 

Well, he was accused of sexual harassment and had to step down as COC president, so it likely said that. But yeah, OITGDNHL.

 

EDIT: Just realized this article was written in 2014, before he was accused...

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Lots of really gross stories about abuse in junior are coming out. White degeneracy needs to come to an end.

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On 6/16/2020 at 5:55 PM, IceCap said:

Lightning and Perds fans are among the NHL's most obnoxious fanbases. The Perds' fanbase has been covered here, but people really sleep on the sheer arrogance emanating from the Lightning fanbase. Especially for fans of a team quickly becoming Sharks East. 

 

I can't help the people you might encounter and deal with so I'm not discrediting your word on this at all...that being said, whatever arrogance our fanbase might have, I would sure hope that got extinguished after having the most embarrassing playoff failure in North American sports history last year. Literally nothing short of winning the Cup in, well, our next opportunity now I guess (whether that comes this year or not) is going to make that stain go away anytime soon.

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39 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

I can't help the people you might encounter and deal with so I'm not discrediting your word on this at all...that being said, whatever arrogance our fanbase might have, I would sure hope that got extinguished after having the most embarrassing playoff failure in North American sports history last year. Literally nothing short of winning the Cup in, well, our next opportunity now I guess (whether that comes this year or not) is going to make that stain go away anytime soon.

Hehe...I admit my attitude is very Jon Cooper related.

I've long thought he was overrated, and the Lightning's biggest obstacle to cashing in on their insanely talented roster with a Cup or three. Every year they'd have some sort of brain fart come playoff time. I moved down here preaching the gospel of Cooper the Idiot, got told "he's the best coach in the league" by everyone, and saw him faceplant against Washington in the ECF in person.
I keep saying "he's holding them back" and just when it might stick in light of their collapse against the Capitals? The Lightning win 62 games. Then IceCap is proven to be the smartest fan in hockey the Lightning complete the greatest playoff collapse in the history of organized sports. And finally some of my friends start coming around, but there are a few holdouts. "Let's see what happens this year" and so on and some people STILL insisting he's the best coach in hockey.

And now? The Lightning could go winless in whatever Frankenstein's Monster of a tournament the NHL has cooked up and the excuse will be "well this year's gotta be thrown out."

 

Now why do I care? The Lightning are the divisional rivals of my beloved Maple Leafs. Surely watching them implode every year in increasingly spectacular fashion should make me happy. Both as a fan of a divisional rival and because it proves my argument that Jon Cooper is an idiot. And yes both things are true (though let's be real, the Lightning are the least division rival-y division rival the Leafs have had save maybe Florida), but at the same time? I'm also a hockey fan. And the team/talent the Lightning have been able to put together since I've been in Tampa, never mind the five years or so prior to that, is nothing short of incredible. One Cup for this team would be a massive underachievement. Going Cup-less before the window closes would be one of the greatest crimes in the history of the sport.

 

Anyway yeah. 75% of my angst about Lightning fans comes from friends of mine who continue to insist Jon Cooper is the greatest coach who ever hockey'd despite the growing pile of evidence to the contrary.

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2 hours ago, IceCap said:

Hehe...I admit my attitude is very Jon Cooper related.

I've long thought he was overrated, and the Lightning's biggest obstacle to cashing in on their insanely talented roster with a Cup or three. Every year they'd have some sort of brain fart come playoff time. I moved down here preaching the gospel of Cooper the Idiot, got told "he's the best coach in the league" by everyone, and saw him faceplant against Washington in the ECF in person.
I keep saying "he's holding them back" and just when it might stick in light of their collapse against the Capitals? The Lightning win 62 games. Then IceCap is proven to be the smartest fan in hockey the Lightning complete the greatest playoff collapse in the history of organized sports. And finally some of my friends start coming around, but there are a few holdouts. "Let's see what happens this year" and so on and some people STILL insisting he's the best coach in hockey.

And now? The Lightning could go winless in whatever Frankenstein's Monster of a tournament the NHL has cooked up and the excuse will be "well this year's gotta be thrown out."

 

Now why do I care? The Lightning are the divisional rivals of my beloved Maple Leafs. Surely watching them implode every year in increasingly spectacular fashion should make me happy. Both as a fan of a divisional rival and because it proves my argument that Jon Cooper is an idiot. And yes both things are true (though let's be real, the Lightning are the least division rival-y division rival the Leafs have had save maybe Florida), but at the same time? I'm also a hockey fan. And the team/talent the Lightning have been able to put together since I've been in Tampa, never mind the five years or so prior to that, is nothing short of incredible. One Cup for this team would be a massive underachievement. Going Cup-less before the window closes would be one of the greatest crimes in the history of the sport.

 

Anyway yeah. 75% of my angst about Lightning fans comes from friends of mine who continue to insist Jon Cooper is the greatest coach who ever hockey'd despite the growing pile of evidence to the contrary.

 

I'm so glad I don't run into the same people you run into them. I have an online record of being a Cooper skeptic going back to 2016 after the Lightning had a dismal regular season (they finished with the sixth best record in the East and weren't inside the playoff picture for good until the end of February). And while I know Stamkos missed most of the 2016-'17 season, the fact of the matter is the Lightning had enough talent outside of him that they should've never been in last place in the entire conference in the middle of January (proof) and they should've never missed the playoffs. That was a fireable offense. That Ottawa Senators team who took the Penguins to double OT in Game 7 of the Conference Finals? The Lightning were more skilled, by a comfortable margin. That was a missed opportunity in a very weak Atlantic Division because the Lightning, for the second straight year, didn't start playing hockey until the second half of the season rolled around, and that time they didn't have enough time to climb out of the hole they dug for themselves.

 

Last March, I'm not sure I'll ever forget the groan I had when I heard the news about Cooper getting a contract extension. I get why it happened - the Lightning didn't want a scenario like what happened with Trotz the year before with the Caps where they go on to win the Cup and then the head coach walks because his demands aren't met but, you know, Cooper has repeatedly been outmaneuvered in the playoffs and if such a repeat situation had occurred a la Trotz, then something tells me that it would've been an acceptable outcome because, you know, it would mean they won the Cup. That was such a pre-emptive move, awarded on the merits of what the Lightning had accomplished during the regular season even though everybody already knew that the regular season accomplishments weren't going to be what anybody cared about when it was all said and done. As it turned out, those accomplishments became a punchline. 

 

You said Sharks East, I would probably say Ducks East myself, but that's six-in-one/half-dozen the other. All three teams in the last decade are synonymous with strong regular seasons, win a few playoff series, but trip themselves up short of the finish line. I align more with the Ducks because, much like them, the Lightning have blown their share of 3-2 series leads over the years.

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