2019-2020 MLB Offseason Thread

[FinsUp1214]

I suppose HOF elections would go here? The Modern Era Ballot has just elected Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons. 
 

Miller is someone I always figured would get in, just a matter of when. It’s hard to argue against him helping to change the game; depends on who you ask of course whether that change was good or bad (I think it was good), but in any case he was a HUGE catalyst in baseball history.

 

Simmons was always an odd HOF case where I could see both sides to the argument; he was probably an average defensive catcher at best, who had a lot of trouble with passed balls and throwing runners out.  And with defense being such a key element to the position, that was always a dent in the pro-argument. However, Simmons has a case as one of the greatest offensive catchers in history (7 seasons hitting over .300  and 8 seasons hitting over 90 RBI, 3 over 100) and though he didn’t have near the power, he was an even better pure hitter than his frequent contemporary, Bench. He was also elected to 8 all-star games, so he did have a lasting run as one of the game’s best catchers (though again, he shared a career timeline with Bench - as well as Fisk and Munson - and was never THE best). 
 

So yeah, he’s an interesting case. Historically great at offense, only average at defense, a top 3-4 catcher of his generation but also VERY overshadowed by those who were ahead of him (Bench, Fisk, and Munson). I “get” his election, but also “got” why he wasn’t elected all these years too. In any case, he’s in now.
 

EDIT: Add Gary Carter to Simmons’ contemporaries, too.

[CS85]

 

 

Yankees to pay Cole, what, $1 billion?

 

[BrySmalls]

Stras got paid after a dominant WS and postseason.

I would be surprised if Rendon is re-signed too.

[pmoehrin]

On 12/8/2019 at 9:36 PM, FinsUp1214 said:

I suppose HOF elections would go here? The Modern Era Ballot has just elected Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons. 
 

Miller is someone I always figured would get in, just a matter of when. It’s hard to argue against him helping to change the game; depends on who you ask of course whether that change was good or bad (I think it was good), but in any case he was a HUGE catalyst in baseball history.

 

Simmons was always an odd HOF case where I could see both sides to the argument; he was probably an average defensive catcher at best, who had a lot of trouble with passed balls and throwing runners out.  And with defense being such a key element to the position, that was always a dent in the pro-argument. However, Simmons has a case as one of the greatest offensive catchers in history (7 seasons hitting over .300  and 8 seasons hitting over 90 RBI, 3 over 100) and though he didn’t have near the power, he was an even better pure hitter than his frequent contemporary, Bench. He was also elected to 8 all-star games, so he did have a lasting run as one of the game’s best catchers (though again, he shared a career timeline with Bench - as well as Fisk and Munson - and was never THE best). 
 

So yeah, he’s an interesting case. Historically great at offense, only average at defense, a top 3-4 catcher of his generation but also VERY overshadowed by those who were ahead of him (Bench, Fisk, and Munson). I “get” his election, but also “got” why he wasn’t elected all these years too. In any case, he’s in now.

 

Miller's induction isn't something that affects me much either way. I don't draw much correlation between the MLBPA and Labor rights as a whole, and Marvin Miller is a big reason why because unlike a lot of labor leaders, he was good at his job.

 

Most people think MLB salaries grew slowly over time. They didn't. In 1950, your average MLB player was making roughly $3,000 a year. In 1960 it was still only about $3,000 a year. Miller arrives soon after, and by 1970, that salary is up to $8,000 a year. Fast forward to 1980, and now we're talking about $40,000 a year. By 1990, that figure is roughly $400,000.

 

Marvin Miller is main the reason why your team's setup man has an offseason vacation home in Boca.

 

If you want to know where I draw the line for what I consider to be Hall of Fame player, Ted Simmons is sitting on it.

 

The mid-late 1970s is the golden age of catching in baseball history. Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Carlton Fisk, Thurman Munson, Gene Tenace, Jim Sundberg, Darrell Porter, Bob Boone, John Stearns, Manny Sanguillén. Any of them would be an All-Star starter in today's game, and after Bench, Carter, and Fisk, Simmons is probably fourth on that list if I had to rank everyone.

 

My definition of a Hall of Famer is someone I could realistically win more than one World Series with them as my best player, and Ted Simmons presents one of the toughest players to evaluate in that regard.

 

Defensively I think Simmons is grossly overrated. He led the league in stolen bases allowed six times and passed balls three times. So it's pretty much all offense when it comes to considering Simmons, but I see five times top ten in OPS, and that's without striking out a ton of times at the plate. He was incredibly durable; if Ted Simmons is on your team, you barely need a backup. From '71-'83 he's a top-five catcher virtually every year, and as mentioned before, all of those years are stacked with talent.

 

Discounting '81, we're looking at 12 years of him being at least a good player, but how many seasons in there can we consider great? And that's where things get dicey because he's right on that border of someone I would consider a top 20 position player in at least five seasons. It where you think those seasons fall that determines your outlook on Ted Simmons.

[FinsUp1214]

^ Ah, I knew I was forgetting someone in that era: Carter (how in the world did I do that??). So that would probably round up a top five of catchers in the era with Bench, Carter, Fisk, Munson, and Simmons. 
 

I think your post sums it up really well, @pmoehrin. Simmons’ case was always so tricky precisely because there was so much to either side of the argument. There’s a lot of stats and accolades that validate him, and certainly others that drag his case down. I guess that’s ultimately why I’m neither elated nor bothered by his election, but rather just “okay” with it.

[Sport]

My case against Simmons: I've heard the name before, but when I first heard he'd been elected I couldn't place him. Face, team, position, couldn't place who he was. That might be on me, but I kind of think a Hall of Fame should be guys who are no-doubt, you can't tell the story of baseball without him, your grandmother should recognize the name type players. 

 

To put it another way, would anybody be up in arms if he hadn't gotten in? 

[AustinFromBoston]

The New York Bankees Get Cole for Christmas. 

9 years/$324 Mil

 

Even for a guy like him that's ludicrous. Enjoy being stuck with him when he falls off a cliff. LOL 

[Dynasty]

They just have to win a title now, don't they? Their core (Judge, Sanchez, Torres) are all in their prime and now they have one of the best pitchers in baseball. There shouldn't be any excuses if they come up short.

 

But yeah, 9 years worth 324 Million? Christ.

[shstpt1]

Not to mention that they still have Staunton’s contract on payroll...

[Shumway]

Can't wait to see who the Angels panic sign/trade for. I'm just just hoping it's not 2010 again, where they missed out on Carl Crawford (which is good in hindsight), Adrian Beltre, and Cliff Lee, then stupidly traded Napoli and Rivera for Vernon Wells.

 

That said, I wanted Gerrit Cole in Anaheim, but that money could be spent better for the Angels. One dominant pitcher's not fixing that rotation.

[The_Admiral]

Hawk Harrelson is in the Hall of Fame now. Much like when the Sox would be down by six to the Twins in the fifth, there are no words.

[Kramerica Industries]

13 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

The New York Bankees Get Cole for Christmas. 

9 years/$324 Mil

 

Even for a guy like him that's ludicrous. Enjoy being stuck with him when he falls off a cliff. LOL 

 

Yankees' total payroll 2015-2019: $1.008 billion

 

Red Sox total payroll 2015-2019: $1.006 billion

 

27 other fanbases, to varying degrees, are allowed to make that joke without being hypocrites. Dodgers and Red Sox fans are the exceptions.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

16 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

13 hours ago, AustinFomBoston said:

The New York Bankees ...

 

Yankees' total payroll 2015-2019: $1.008 billion

 

Red Sox total payroll 2015-2019: $1.006 billion

 

27 other fanbases, to varying degrees, are allowed to make that joke without being hypocrites. Dodgers and Red Sox fans are the exceptions.

 

I say that no one is allowed to make that joke. 

If a particular team's owners can't afford to keep up with the biggest spenders, then the solution is for that team to get better owners.

[AustinFromBoston]

1 hour ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

Yankees' total payroll 2015-2019: $1.008 billion

 

Red Sox total payroll 2015-2019: $1.006 billion

 

27 other fanbases, to varying degrees, are allowed to make that joke without being hypocrites. Dodgers and Red Sox fans are the exceptions.

It's just a joke, relax. One people have been making about the Yankees for Decades. 

[Dynasty]

Anthony Rendon to the Angels; 7 years, 245 million.

 

That's nuts... No way Washington would've been able to retain him and Strasburg. The Angels really needed pitching, but with Cole already signed...

[rainmaker17]

Your (revised) 2017 World Champions...The Los Angeles Dodgers. Congrats boys!

[dont care]

5 hours ago, rainmaker17 said:

Your (revised) 2017 World Champions...The Los Angeles Dodgers. Congrats boys!

Explain?

[Digby]

18 hours ago, Kramerica Industries said:

 

Yankees' total payroll 2015-2019: $1.008 billion

 

Red Sox total payroll 2015-2019: $1.006 billion

 

27 other fanbases, to varying degrees, are allowed to make that joke without being hypocrites. Dodgers and Red Sox fans are the exceptions.

 

Don't worry, Red Sox fans will be able to make that joke again once they get overpaid chumps like Rusney Castillo and *checks notes* Mookie Betts off the payroll.

[Sport]

I wonder what changed between last year when Machado and Harper could barely get any teams to meet with them and this year where teams are throwing money around willy nilly. 

[Digby]

On 12/11/2019 at 2:09 AM, Dolphins Dynasty said:

They just have to win a title now, don't they? Their core (Judge, Sanchez, Torres) are all in their prime and now they have one of the best pitchers in baseball. There shouldn't be any excuses if they come up short.

 

But yeah, 9 years worth 324 Million? Christ.

 

I know weird things happen in baseball (the Nationals just won the World Series, after all) but it's already feeling preordained, at least to get out of the ALCS. With all of the angst happening in Houston, and Boston's rotation issues and stated desire to sabotage themselves. Can't imagine a Rays/Athletics sort of "catch fire at the right time" squad will be able to keep up with the Yankees next year. As long as their injury issues regress to a normal amount.