MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[bosrs1]

5 hours ago, Mitch B said:

I support any action that gets the Mets triple-A affiliate out of Vegas and back to the east coast.

 

Well Cashman Field is going to be converted into a Soccer Stadium here shortly for the new USL team. So they may be homeless before long.

[Rebuy]

5 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

There are two main factors to no real push, for a Nashville franchise:

 

1. Nashville is pretty content with the Sounds. Tennessee is smack dab in the middle of SEC country, where football reigns supreme. The Predators have done well, to build their fanbase, and I'm not sure how much room the market has for a third big 4 franchise.

 

2. Based on my time in Nashville, the city seems to have no real strong allegiance, to any MLB team. If they built a franchise, though, they'd be eating into a significant portion of the secondary markets of three other teams. St. Louis (Memphis, west TN, and western KY), Cincinnati (Louisville and southeastern KY), and Atlanta (eastern TN and Alabama). For a new market to get off the ground, when they'd be taking so much from three others, there needs to be a much greater demand.

 

 

I'm a Nashville native so I can tell you that 1. is somewhat true but baseball is a big deal anywhere in the states. A MLB franchise would have lots of support.

 

Number 2. is true, although the Braves were probably more popular in Nashville than in Atlanta itself in the 90s. Now that they aren't the juggernaut they once were, their level of support has subsided considerably. You are correct that they would be eating into others' secondary territory but I don't really see why the Braves are entitled to East TN or St. Louis is to West TN/KY.  Both of those teams and the Reds for that matter already have plenty of secondary areas to draw from and could still do so from those areas even with a Nashville franchise.  If the Nashville franchise was an American League team, I think there would be no reason they couldn't all coexist.

[Rebuy]

16 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Well Cashman Field is going to be converted into a Soccer Stadium here shortly for the new USL team. So they may be homeless before long.

 

 

I was in Vegas last week and it was surprising how strongly the 51's were showing their affiliation with the Mets. There were Met posters all over the stadium and all the workers wore Mets gear of some kind.  The sports talk radio guys were saying it is a done deal that the 51's will get a new stadium in Summerlin. Obviously it's absurd to have the Mets in Vegas and surely the 51's would prefer to affiliate with a team that is more regional.

 

Who's a good fit for Las Vegas? The Padres seem content in El Paso. The Dodgers aren't leaving OKC. The Angels seem entrenched in Salt Lake. I think it'd be great for the Diamondbacks to move down from Reno and try to generate interest in a market that they could hypothetically build a decent fan-base.

[FiddySicks]

Oakland should pick up Reno over Nashville (but that probably won't happen due to an almost brand new facility) And Arizona should bump to Vegas. 

[BeerGuyJordan]

5 hours ago, Rebuy said:

 

 

I'm a Nashville native so I can tell you that 1. is somewhat true but baseball is a big deal anywhere in the states. A MLB franchise would have lots of support.

 

Number 2. is true, although the Braves were probably more popular in Nashville than in Atlanta itself in the 90s. Now that they aren't the juggernaut they once were, their level of support has subsided considerably. You are correct that they would be eating into others' secondary territory but I don't really see why the Braves are entitled to East TN or St. Louis is to West TN/KY.  Both of those teams and the Reds for that matter already have plenty of secondary areas to draw from and could still do so from those areas even with a Nashville franchise.  If the Nashville franchise was an American League team, I think there would be no reason they couldn't all coexist.

I never said that anyone was entitled to the secondary markets mentioned,  or that it couldn't work, I just said that there's no one pushing for MLB Nashville, and those are your two largest  reasons.

 

Nashville is currently pretty content with the Sounds, and is focused on trying to get in on the aggresive MLS expansion.

 

The league isn't currently looking to expand. If they have one franchise relocating, a market that isn't clamoring for a team, that would also eat into three other franchises' secondary markets is pretty far down the list.

[HedleyLamarr]

At this point, every market currently without a MLB franchise is a "secondary market" to some team.  Vegas, Portland, Nashville, Indianapolis, etc.  That won't be a deciding factor.

[dfwabel]

5 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I never said that anyone was entitled to the secondary markets mentioned,  or that it couldn't work, I just said that there's no one pushing for MLB Nashville, and those are your two largest  reasons.

 

Nashville is currently pretty content with the Sounds, and is focused on trying to get in on the aggresive MLS expansion.

 

The league isn't currently looking to expand. If they have one franchise relocating, a market that isn't clamoring for a team, that would also eat into three other franchises' secondary markets is pretty far down the list.

Isn't also very difficult to get Metro Nashville to spend another $400-500M on a stadium when they not only are thinking about MLS with a Vanderbilt partner, but also as $100M was spent on First Tennessee Park which will very hard to expand.

[BeerGuyJordan]

On 7/28/2017 at 9:56 PM, HedleyLamarr said:

At this point, every market currently without a MLB franchise is a "secondary market" to some team.  Vegas, Portland, Nashville, Indianapolis, etc.  That won't be a deciding factor.

While not wholly off base, that's a gross oversimplification.

 

There's little to no question which team(s) the majority of the baseball fans follow in places like Providence (BoSox), Columbus (Indians and Reds), or Memphis (Cardinals). All of those are cities that are large enough to make a push, if they had a stadium. The fact is that they won't.

 

Why not? It's not like they're close enough to have to pay indemnification fees. Answer: they're a significant secondary market to another team, and there are better places to expand.

 

Some cities aren't a significant secondary market for any team. Nashville, Las Vegas, Portland, and Charlotte are examples of that. It absolutely should be one of many factors considered. 

[HedleyLamarr]

1 hour ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

There's little to no question which team(s) the majority of the baseball fans follow in places like Providence (BoSox), Columbus (Indians and Reds), or Memphis (Cardinals). All of those are cities that are large enough to make a push, if they had a stadium. The fact is that they won't.

 

Why not? It's not like they're close enough to have to pay indemnification fees. Answer: they're a significant secondary market to another team, and there are better places to expand.

Providence and Columbus aren't going to pursue a MLB-sized stadium because they know they're never getting a team.  And Memphis simply can't afford 81 homes a year..  Has nothing to do with being a "significant secondary market".  (Memphis to St. Louis is about the same distance as Nashville is to both Atlanta and St. Louis)

[JH42XCC]

From how I see the 2018 Triple-A Affiliate Shuffle...

• Las Vegas 51s: Mets ---> D'Backs
• Reno Aces: D'Backs ---> A's
• Nashville Sounds: A's ---> Twins
• Rochester Red Wings: Twins --> Mets

This probably makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gothamite]

What did the Diamondbacks do to deserve Vegas?

[The_Admiral]

Isn't Las Vegas baseball on the ropes? Maybe it's a stopgap until another AAA Tucson team.

[Gothamite]

It's as we said way back at the beginning of this thread; Vegas baseball is in dire need of a new facility.  So much so that no MLB club wants to partner with them. 

[BeerGuyJordan]

21 hours ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Providence and Columbus aren't going to pursue a MLB-sized stadium because they know they're never getting a team.  And Memphis simply can't afford 81 homes a year..  Has nothing to do with being a "significant secondary market".  (Memphis to St. Louis is about the same distance as Nashville is to both Atlanta and St. Louis)

And why are Columbus and Providence never getting a team? Lack of demand. Primarily due to proximity to another team, and strength as a secondary market.

 

Memphis has the long-standing St. Louis AAA affiliation, and isn't any closer to any other teams. Memphis is Cardinals territory.

 

Big difference from Nashville, who is roughly 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hours from St. Louis, Atlanta, and Cincinnati. They're also the A's affiliate, and Milwaukee's before that. Nashville is a no man's land.

 

I'm not arguing that Nashville should get a team. I'm just saying that the reasons they're not getting one are different than some of the other cities mentioned. 

14 hours ago, the admiral said:

Isn't Las Vegas baseball on the ropes? Maybe it's a stopgap until another AAA Tucson team.

I went to Sidewinders and Spring Training games at the old TEP. It's a great ballpark for Spring Training, the proximity to Phoenix is what killed that.

 

I don't think anyone, MiLB or Tucson, wants triple-A ball back. June is hot enough to keep away fans, and the monsoons dominate July and August. The only way they'd have a real chance would be getting a covered (retractable, ideally) stadium, and I don't think anyone is spending that kind of money.

[Rebuy]

BeerGuy- Hey man I live in Tucson as well.  I'm originally from Nashville, so it's good to see another Preds fan in this town.

 

I'd love to see Tucson get AAA again but there are a lot of things that work against it as mentioned. The weather is the number one obstacle, extreme heat and the monsoons would present a challenge. Traffic is a nightmare going east to west at all times. Finding a truly convenient location that doesn't inconvenience half your potential customers is an enormous challenge. It's also a very strange town in many ways, easily the most apathetic city I've ever seen. Personally I love the level of complacency as it makes for an extremely pleasant place to live without  the rat race vibe. Unless it's U of A related, it will be difficult to get people excited.  Tucson is its own little world. 

[kroywen]

There's no sense in MiLB going back to Tucson at this point. Arizona already has an MLB team, spring training, and the Arizona Fall League. It's a saturated baseball market, and trying to shoehorn in a AAA team playing outdoors in July and August, with the heat and the monsoons, would be totally unnecessary.

 

Las Vegas is a tricky situation, but unless they build a new stadium soon, that team would be better off moving to greener pastures (literally). Not sure what unlucky team will draw the short stick during the next AAA reshuffle, but I feel bad for that team's prospects having to go through Vegas.

[TBGKon]

Update to Rays news, the ownership says

“We have sites in mind, and it’s a question of what will get done around the site and how are they going to get paid for,” he said. “And once municipalities are able to line those things up, not completely buttoned up but at least to a good extent, then we’ll be able to make a decision.”

Sternberg said they were hoping to have a decision by the end of the season, but the end of the year may be more likely.

 

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/rays/sternberg-rays-ready-to-make-quick--decision-once-they-get-stadium-options/2332121

[Burmy]

Looks like the D-Backs might be the ones who end up heading to Vegas...

[Bmac]

Not that this has any chance of happening, but would a second team in Boston or Philadelphia ever survive?

[Luigi74]

18 minutes ago, Bmac said:

Not that this has any chance of happening, but would a second team in Boston or Philadelphia ever survive?

No, there's a reason the Braves and A's moved back in the 50's same with the Browns leaving St. Louis.